does any one know were i can find a muzzleloader pistol

wes

All advice is appreciated!


--- rrambrose <rambros1@...> wrote:

> One other thing you may or may not know. When
> loading the round ball,
> if there is a sprue or the remains of a sprue make
> sure that that
> sprue points up the barrel to avoid a nasty stuck
> ball.
>
> Robert
>
> --- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Mike Skelly
> <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> > Thanks - I'll be sure to give a range report next
> week
> > :)
> >
> >
> > --- rrambrose <rambros1@o...> wrote:
> >
> > > If you are going to shoot a round ball for
> hunting
> > > you are going to
> > > need to patch the ball in the Bess. The paper
> > > cartridge acts as a sort
> > > of patch, but you are going to get military
> Brown
> > > Bess results - a
> > > lead ball traveling in a random direction that
> > > results from the last
> > > bounce in the barrel. The Continental Line issue
> for
> > > the Bess and its
> > > equivalents was a 69 cal ball because the French
> > > Charleville takes
> > > that cal. both muskets were issued the same
> > > cartridges. So you can
> > > fire a 69 cal ball from the Bess but it must be
> > > tightly patched for
> > > accuracy. Are these slugs round?
> > >
> > > The load for renenacting events is around 90 to
> 100
> > > gr. in the paper
> > > cartridge which includes the priming powder. So
> > > about 75 gr does down
> > > the barrel after you prime with cartride. It is
> not
> > > uncommon to double
> > > load when you want to make a lot of noise - not
> > > recommended to do too
> > > often - folks around you will get upset. Most
> > > renenactors use FF. The
> > > Bess works well with FF for both priming and
> load.
> > > You are just
> > > wasting FFF on a Bess. Many units supply
> cartridges
> > > to its members for
> > > events.
> > >
> > > At BAR live fire competitions cartridges are
> rolled
> > > in tinfoil instead
> > > of paper and that is the only patch allowed to
> be
> > > used.
> > >
> > > To purchase round balls for the Bess you need to
> go
> > > on-line - try
> > > Dixie GunWorks or Dixons which has a store in
> > > southeastern PA. I think
> > >  Track of the Wolf is also a resource. Look at
> my
> > > site -
> > > www.geocities.com/livinghistoryresources In the
> > > listings you will find
> > > a link for the RevList site. You will find lots
> of
> > > sutlers there that
> > > sell roundballs, accessories, and parts.
> > >
> > > The Japanese Bess is a long used, tried and true
> > > firelock. A lot of
> > > reenactors have them. Before Pederosoli came
> along
> > > that was the one to
> > > buy. I am not sure they are available new
> anymore,
> > > but Dixie does
> > > carry parts if you need them. There are sutlers
> at
> > > events that sell
> > > parts also - eventually everyone will need a new
> > > frizzen.
> > >
> > > Did your Bess come with a flashguard? You must
> have
> > > this at events, as
> > > well as a leather hammer stall which you can
> make
> > > yourself with a few
> > > inches of leather. If you don't have a
> flashguard
> > > and you are going to
> > > install one you will need a spring vise or
> something
> > > that will hold
> > > the frizzen spring in place so that you can open
> the
> > > frizzen screw,
> > > insert the guard and return the screw.  A lot of
> > > guys have brass
> > > guards but there are chrome available that blend
> > > right in with the
> > > lock. You can get a flashguard at Dixie or
> Dixons -
> > > or any of the
> > > other sutlers online.
> > >
> > > You are also going to need a good supply of
> flints
> > > and the Bess takes
> > > a BIG flint. Again, available at all mentioned.
> You
> > > may want lead
> > > flint wrappers or leather - you can make the
> > > leather. You can make the
> > > lead too if you can get soft sheet lead. Keep
> > > several flints with you
> > > at events - you never know when the darn thing
> > > decides not to fire any
> > > more with the current flint in the hammer. Carry
> a
> > > period turnscrew
> > > with you to replace the flint and get it good
> and
> > > tight. (Also
> > > available from the sutlers.)
> > >
> > > I am not a hunter but I know that hunting with a
> > > smoothbore is a
> > > challenge. Remember that at the start of the
> > > Revolution there was no
> > > command to Aim - just Present - because of the
> > > inaccuracy of the
> > > weapon. As the war progressed Washington changed
> the
> > > command to Aim
> > > because he saw that the guys were not paying
> much
> > > attention to any
> > > direction that they were firing at. The
> > > effectiveness of this weapon
> > > in battle was the quantity of fire from a line
> of
> > > men - not the
> > > quality of fire. The objective was to rain lead
> down
> > > upon the opposing
> > > line.
> > >
> > > Have fun!
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Mike
> Skelly
> > > <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> > > > I looked my "new" Bess over this weekend. I
> found
> > > some
> > > > surface rust inside the bore but was generally
> > > very
> > > > pleased with her.
> > > >
> > > > It is a Japanese Bess and so billed as 75
> caliber.
> > > The
> > > > two balls provided with her (yes only two!)
> are
> > > .731
> > > > on my calipers. I have not yet weighed them.
> > > >
> > > > I rolled ten cartridges of FFF for myself for
> > > smoke
> > > > making. I was unsure of the recommended charge
> so
> > > I
> > > > loaded 5 with 75 grains and 5 with 100 grains.
> > > First
> > > > question: What is the recommended load for
> > > reenacting
> > > > events?
> > > >
> > > > The Bess's previous owner told me that:
> > > >
> > > > "It patterns well for turkey with 1.5 oz of
> copper
> > > > plated # 6 shot to
> > > > ~40 yards. My deer load of a .735 ball over 90
> > > grains
> > > > of FF black
> > > > powder works well in this gun."
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > He had a photo of himself with the Bess and a
> nice
> > > 8
> > > > point, so I am
> > > > inclined to think that 90 grains might be a
> > > reasonable
> > > > load to play
> > > > with.
> > > >
> > > > Question #2 - Does anyone have a recommended
> load
> > > for
> > > > hunting other
> > > > than this?
> > > >
> > > > Question #3 - Seeing as the .73 balls roll
> freely
> > > down
> > > > the barrel,
> > > > should they be patched for better accuracy or
> does
> > > the
> > > > cartridge
> > > > paper serve as a patch? (I have not loaded any
> > > > cartridges with ball
> > > > yet).
> > > >
> > > > Something tells me that not every local shop
> is
> > > going
> > > > to stock .7+
> > > > claiber balls. So I measured a 12 guage slug
> and
> > > found
> > > > it to be
> > > > about .69 caliber. I'm thinking that in the
> > > abscence
> > > > of other
> > > > projectiles a poatched 12 gauge slug COULD
> work.
> > > has
> > > > anyone here
> > > > tried that yet?
> > > >
> > > > I'll probably try a few at my first range
> session
> > > > anyhow. Does
> > > > anyone else have a local source for ready made
> 3/4
> > > > inch chunks of
> > > > lead?
> > > >
> > > > Thanks in advance - Mike.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- rrambrose <rambros1@o...> wrote:
> > > > > Mike -
> > > > >
> > > > > What company made your Bess?
> > > > > One of the reasons, I think, that the repro
> > > muskets
> > > > > cost so much is
> > > > > that there is a lot of research and accuracy
> > > that
> > > > > has to go into the
> > > > > initial manufacture. The Bess is larger than
> > > most
> > > > > muzzleloaders and
> > > > > has a lot of historical detail in its
> design.
> > > Most
> > > > > are imported - the
> > > > > most popular and most reliable is the
> Pederosoli
> > > and
> > > > > it is coming from
> > > > > Italy. As the exhange rate and import duty
> vary
> > > so
> > > > > does the price.
> > > > > PLUS the companies know that there are a lot
> of
> > > > > crazy reenactors
> > > > > (myself included) that are going to pay the
> > > price
> > > > > because you have got
> > > > > to have one.
> > > > >
> > > > > Robert
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Yahoo! Mail
> > > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take
> the
> > > tour:
> > > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
>




__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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One other thing you may or may not know. When loading the round ball,
if there is a sprue or the remains of a sprue make sure that that
sprue points up the barrel to avoid a nasty stuck ball.

Robert

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Mike Skelly <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> Thanks - I'll be sure to give a range report next week
> :)
>
>
> --- rrambrose <rambros1@o...> wrote:
>
> > If you are going to shoot a round ball for hunting
> > you are going to
> > need to patch the ball in the Bess. The paper
> > cartridge acts as a sort
> > of patch, but you are going to get military Brown
> > Bess results - a
> > lead ball traveling in a random direction that
> > results from the last
> > bounce in the barrel. The Continental Line issue for
> > the Bess and its
> > equivalents was a 69 cal ball because the French
> > Charleville takes
> > that cal. both muskets were issued the same
> > cartridges. So you can
> > fire a 69 cal ball from the Bess but it must be
> > tightly patched for
> > accuracy. Are these slugs round?
> >
> > The load for renenacting events is around 90 to 100
> > gr. in the paper
> > cartridge which includes the priming powder. So
> > about 75 gr does down
> > the barrel after you prime with cartride. It is not
> > uncommon to double
> > load when you want to make a lot of noise - not
> > recommended to do too
> > often - folks around you will get upset. Most
> > renenactors use FF. The
> > Bess works well with FF for both priming and load.
> > You are just
> > wasting FFF on a Bess. Many units supply cartridges
> > to its members for
> > events.
> >
> > At BAR live fire competitions cartridges are rolled
> > in tinfoil instead
> > of paper and that is the only patch allowed to be
> > used.
> >
> > To purchase round balls for the Bess you need to go
> > on-line - try
> > Dixie GunWorks or Dixons which has a store in
> > southeastern PA. I think
> >  Track of the Wolf is also a resource. Look at my
> > site -
> > www.geocities.com/livinghistoryresources In the
> > listings you will find
> > a link for the RevList site. You will find lots of
> > sutlers there that
> > sell roundballs, accessories, and parts.
> >
> > The Japanese Bess is a long used, tried and true
> > firelock. A lot of
> > reenactors have them. Before Pederosoli came along
> > that was the one to
> > buy. I am not sure they are available new anymore,
> > but Dixie does
> > carry parts if you need them. There are sutlers at
> > events that sell
> > parts also - eventually everyone will need a new
> > frizzen.
> >
> > Did your Bess come with a flashguard? You must have
> > this at events, as
> > well as a leather hammer stall which you can make
> > yourself with a few
> > inches of leather. If you don't have a flashguard
> > and you are going to
> > install one you will need a spring vise or something
> > that will hold
> > the frizzen spring in place so that you can open the
> > frizzen screw,
> > insert the guard and return the screw.  A lot of
> > guys have brass
> > guards but there are chrome available that blend
> > right in with the
> > lock. You can get a flashguard at Dixie or Dixons -
> > or any of the
> > other sutlers online.
> >
> > You are also going to need a good supply of flints
> > and the Bess takes
> > a BIG flint. Again, available at all mentioned. You
> > may want lead
> > flint wrappers or leather - you can make the
> > leather. You can make the
> > lead too if you can get soft sheet lead. Keep
> > several flints with you
> > at events - you never know when the darn thing
> > decides not to fire any
> > more with the current flint in the hammer. Carry a
> > period turnscrew
> > with you to replace the flint and get it good and
> > tight. (Also
> > available from the sutlers.)
> >
> > I am not a hunter but I know that hunting with a
> > smoothbore is a
> > challenge. Remember that at the start of the
> > Revolution there was no
> > command to Aim - just Present - because of the
> > inaccuracy of the
> > weapon. As the war progressed Washington changed the
> > command to Aim
> > because he saw that the guys were not paying much
> > attention to any
> > direction that they were firing at. The
> > effectiveness of this weapon
> > in battle was the quantity of fire from a line of
> > men - not the
> > quality of fire. The objective was to rain lead down
> > upon the opposing
> > line.
> >
> > Have fun!
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
> > --- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Mike Skelly
> > <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> > > I looked my "new" Bess over this weekend. I found
> > some
> > > surface rust inside the bore but was generally
> > very
> > > pleased with her.
> > >
> > > It is a Japanese Bess and so billed as 75 caliber.
> > The
> > > two balls provided with her (yes only two!) are
> > .731
> > > on my calipers. I have not yet weighed them.
> > >
> > > I rolled ten cartridges of FFF for myself for
> > smoke
> > > making. I was unsure of the recommended charge so
> > I
> > > loaded 5 with 75 grains and 5 with 100 grains.
> > First
> > > question: What is the recommended load for
> > reenacting
> > > events?
> > >
> > > The Bess's previous owner told me that:
> > >
> > > "It patterns well for turkey with 1.5 oz of copper
> > > plated # 6 shot to
> > > ~40 yards. My deer load of a .735 ball over 90
> > grains
> > > of FF black
> > > powder works well in this gun."
> > >
> > >
> > > He had a photo of himself with the Bess and a nice
> > 8
> > > point, so I am
> > > inclined to think that 90 grains might be a
> > reasonable
> > > load to play
> > > with.
> > >
> > > Question #2 - Does anyone have a recommended load
> > for
> > > hunting other
> > > than this?
> > >
> > > Question #3 - Seeing as the .73 balls roll freely
> > down
> > > the barrel,
> > > should they be patched for better accuracy or does
> > the
> > > cartridge
> > > paper serve as a patch? (I have not loaded any
> > > cartridges with ball
> > > yet).
> > >
> > > Something tells me that not every local shop is
> > going
> > > to stock .7+
> > > claiber balls. So I measured a 12 guage slug and
> > found
> > > it to be
> > > about .69 caliber. I'm thinking that in the
> > abscence
> > > of other
> > > projectiles a poatched 12 gauge slug COULD work.
> > has
> > > anyone here
> > > tried that yet?
> > >
> > > I'll probably try a few at my first range session
> > > anyhow. Does
> > > anyone else have a local source for ready made 3/4
> > > inch chunks of
> > > lead?
> > >
> > > Thanks in advance - Mike.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --- rrambrose <rambros1@o...> wrote:
> > > > Mike -
> > > >
> > > > What company made your Bess?
> > > > One of the reasons, I think, that the repro
> > muskets
> > > > cost so much is
> > > > that there is a lot of research and accuracy
> > that
> > > > has to go into the
> > > > initial manufacture. The Bess is larger than
> > most
> > > > muzzleloaders and
> > > > has a lot of historical detail in its design.
> > Most
> > > > are imported - the
> > > > most popular and most reliable is the Pederosoli
> > and
> > > > it is coming from
> > > > Italy. As the exhange rate and import duty vary
> > so
> > > > does the price.
> > > > PLUS the companies know that there are a lot of
> > > > crazy reenactors
> > > > (myself included) that are going to pay the
> > price
> > > > because you have got
> > > > to have one.
> > > >
> > > > Robert
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Mail
> > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
> > tour:
> > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com

Thanks - I'll be sure to give a range report next week
:)


--- rrambrose <rambros1@...> wrote:

> If you are going to shoot a round ball for hunting
> you are going to
> need to patch the ball in the Bess. The paper
> cartridge acts as a sort
> of patch, but you are going to get military Brown
> Bess results - a
> lead ball traveling in a random direction that
> results from the last
> bounce in the barrel. The Continental Line issue for
> the Bess and its
> equivalents was a 69 cal ball because the French
> Charleville takes
> that cal. both muskets were issued the same
> cartridges. So you can
> fire a 69 cal ball from the Bess but it must be
> tightly patched for
> accuracy. Are these slugs round?
>
> The load for renenacting events is around 90 to 100
> gr. in the paper
> cartridge which includes the priming powder. So
> about 75 gr does down
> the barrel after you prime with cartride. It is not
> uncommon to double
> load when you want to make a lot of noise - not
> recommended to do too
> often - folks around you will get upset. Most
> renenactors use FF. The
> Bess works well with FF for both priming and load.
> You are just
> wasting FFF on a Bess. Many units supply cartridges
> to its members for
> events.
>
> At BAR live fire competitions cartridges are rolled
> in tinfoil instead
> of paper and that is the only patch allowed to be
> used.
>
> To purchase round balls for the Bess you need to go
> on-line - try
> Dixie GunWorks or Dixons which has a store in
> southeastern PA. I think
>  Track of the Wolf is also a resource. Look at my
> site -
> www.geocities.com/livinghistoryresources In the
> listings you will find
> a link for the RevList site. You will find lots of
> sutlers there that
> sell roundballs, accessories, and parts.
>
> The Japanese Bess is a long used, tried and true
> firelock. A lot of
> reenactors have them. Before Pederosoli came along
> that was the one to
> buy. I am not sure they are available new anymore,
> but Dixie does
> carry parts if you need them. There are sutlers at
> events that sell
> parts also - eventually everyone will need a new
> frizzen.
>
> Did your Bess come with a flashguard? You must have
> this at events, as
> well as a leather hammer stall which you can make
> yourself with a few
> inches of leather. If you don't have a flashguard
> and you are going to
> install one you will need a spring vise or something
> that will hold
> the frizzen spring in place so that you can open the
> frizzen screw,
> insert the guard and return the screw.  A lot of
> guys have brass
> guards but there are chrome available that blend
> right in with the
> lock. You can get a flashguard at Dixie or Dixons -
> or any of the
> other sutlers online.
>
> You are also going to need a good supply of flints
> and the Bess takes
> a BIG flint. Again, available at all mentioned. You
> may want lead
> flint wrappers or leather - you can make the
> leather. You can make the
> lead too if you can get soft sheet lead. Keep
> several flints with you
> at events - you never know when the darn thing
> decides not to fire any
> more with the current flint in the hammer. Carry a
> period turnscrew
> with you to replace the flint and get it good and
> tight. (Also
> available from the sutlers.)
>
> I am not a hunter but I know that hunting with a
> smoothbore is a
> challenge. Remember that at the start of the
> Revolution there was no
> command to Aim - just Present - because of the
> inaccuracy of the
> weapon. As the war progressed Washington changed the
> command to Aim
> because he saw that the guys were not paying much
> attention to any
> direction that they were firing at. The
> effectiveness of this weapon
> in battle was the quantity of fire from a line of
> men - not the
> quality of fire. The objective was to rain lead down
> upon the opposing
> line.
>
> Have fun!
>
> Robert
>
>
> --- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Mike Skelly
> <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> > I looked my "new" Bess over this weekend. I found
> some
> > surface rust inside the bore but was generally
> very
> > pleased with her.
> >
> > It is a Japanese Bess and so billed as 75 caliber.
> The
> > two balls provided with her (yes only two!) are
> .731
> > on my calipers. I have not yet weighed them.
> >
> > I rolled ten cartridges of FFF for myself for
> smoke
> > making. I was unsure of the recommended charge so
> I
> > loaded 5 with 75 grains and 5 with 100 grains.
> First
> > question: What is the recommended load for
> reenacting
> > events?
> >
> > The Bess's previous owner told me that:
> >
> > "It patterns well for turkey with 1.5 oz of copper
> > plated # 6 shot to
> > ~40 yards. My deer load of a .735 ball over 90
> grains
> > of FF black
> > powder works well in this gun."
> >
> >
> > He had a photo of himself with the Bess and a nice
> 8
> > point, so I am
> > inclined to think that 90 grains might be a
> reasonable
> > load to play
> > with.
> >
> > Question #2 - Does anyone have a recommended load
> for
> > hunting other
> > than this?
> >
> > Question #3 - Seeing as the .73 balls roll freely
> down
> > the barrel,
> > should they be patched for better accuracy or does
> the
> > cartridge
> > paper serve as a patch? (I have not loaded any
> > cartridges with ball
> > yet).
> >
> > Something tells me that not every local shop is
> going
> > to stock .7+
> > claiber balls. So I measured a 12 guage slug and
> found
> > it to be
> > about .69 caliber. I'm thinking that in the
> abscence
> > of other
> > projectiles a poatched 12 gauge slug COULD work.
> has
> > anyone here
> > tried that yet?
> >
> > I'll probably try a few at my first range session
> > anyhow. Does
> > anyone else have a local source for ready made 3/4
> > inch chunks of
> > lead?
> >
> > Thanks in advance - Mike.
> >
> >
> >
> > --- rrambrose <rambros1@o...> wrote:
> > > Mike -
> > >
> > > What company made your Bess?
> > > One of the reasons, I think, that the repro
> muskets
> > > cost so much is
> > > that there is a lot of research and accuracy
> that
> > > has to go into the
> > > initial manufacture. The Bess is larger than
> most
> > > muzzleloaders and
> > > has a lot of historical detail in its design.
> Most
> > > are imported - the
> > > most popular and most reliable is the Pederosoli
> and
> > > it is coming from
> > > Italy. As the exhange rate and import duty vary
> so
> > > does the price.
> > > PLUS the companies know that there are a lot of
> > > crazy reenactors
> > > (myself included) that are going to pay the
> price
> > > because you have got
> > > to have one.
> > >
> > > Robert
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
> tour:
> > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>
>
>


__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

If you want the Bess just for hunting then yes, there are a lot better
choices, but if you are a revwar reenactor only the Bess, a
charrleville, a fowler, or a period correct rifle will do. Of these
the Bess and Charrleville are priced about the same. A Hawken is not
period-correct. A period correct fowler or rifle start higher than the
Bess (around $850)and you are buying a handmade flintlock from a
gunmaker. There is a Pederosoli rifle that is less, but it is not very
good (according to the guys I know who have them). The most reasonable
gunmaker for a rifle or fowler is TVM - Tennessee Valley Muzzleloaders.

Robert


--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, "Tony" <thestickof_ephrm@b...>
wrote:
> You could pick up a replica Hawken for a lot less then a Bess and there
> are other good smokepoles out there that don't cost a lot.
> Maybe popularity has more to do with the price of a Bess.
> The only rifle that compares in price to a Bess is the Harpers Ferry
rifle.
> Another good smokepole.
> Derringer used to make rifles in the days of the fur trapper but I never
> saw a replica of those rifles.
> Tony.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Mike Skelly
>   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:39 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess
>
>
>   Tony:
>
>   Thanks.
>   The ONLY reason to charge so much for a Bess - is that
>   the rest of us dummies PAY it!
>
>   My used one cost about t

he price of oine of teh new
>   imports but it came with a bunch of accessories, so I
>   think I got a fair deal.
>
>   But as to WHY a bess has to cost more than a modern
>   firearm - it just don't make no sense....
>
>   --- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@b...> wrote:
>   > Congratulations on getting the bess.
>   > I wonder why the companies that make replica's
>   > charge so much for a new bess?
>   > You would think that it would cost less because they
>   > don't have to add rifling.
>   > I know that I'm showing my ignorance in this
>   > question.
>   > Recon ILL call my self dumb bear for a handle.
>   > Tony.
>   >
>   >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: Mike Skelly
>   >   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   >   Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:34 PM
>   >   Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess
>   >
>   >
>   >   Yes a Bess is a smooth bore - mine is .75 caliber
>   > :)
>   >   Picked her up yesterday :D
>   >
>   >   --- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@b...> wrote:
>   >   >
>   >   > Don't feel too bad there.
>   >   > Yahoo sometimes sends me two of everything and I
>   >   > think my
>   >   > delete button is busted.
>   >   > Brown Bess is a smooth bore isn't it?
>   >   > Please forgive my ignorance.
>   >   > Tony.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   >   From: rrambrose
>   >   >   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   >   >   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:10 PM
>   >   >   Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >   Ok - I will try posting this again. I cannot
>   >   > believe that Yahoo lost
>   >   >   this the first time around.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >   __________________________________
>   >   Yahoo! Mail Mobile
>   >   Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
>   > mobile phone.
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>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>
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Service.

If you are going to shoot a round ball for hunting you are going to
need to patch the ball in the Bess. The paper cartridge acts as a sort
of patch, but you are going to get military Brown Bess results - a
lead ball traveling in a random direction that results from the last
bounce in the barrel. The Continental Line issue for the Bess and its
equivalents was a 69 cal ball because the French Charleville takes
that cal. both muskets were issued the same cartridges. So you can
fire a 69 cal ball from the Bess but it must be tightly patched for
accuracy. Are these slugs round?

The load for renenacting events is around 90 to 100 gr. in the paper
cartridge which includes the priming powder. So about 75 gr does down
the barrel after you prime with cartride. It is not uncommon to double
load when you want to make a lot of noise - not recommended to do too
often - folks around you will get upset. Most renenactors use FF. The
Bess works well with FF for both priming and load. You are just
wasting FFF on a Bess. Many units supply cartridges to its members for
events.

At BAR live fire competitions cartridges are rolled in tinfoil instead
of paper and that is the only patch allowed to be used.

To purchase round balls for the Bess you need to go on-line - try
Dixie GunWorks or Dixons which has a store in southeastern PA. I think
  Track of the Wolf is also a resource. Look at my site -
www.geocities.com/livinghistoryresources In the listings you will find
a link for the RevList site. You will find lots of sutlers there that
sell roundballs, accessories, and parts.

The Japanese Bess is a long used, tried and true firelock. A lot of
reenactors have them. Before Pederosoli came along that was the one to
buy. I am not sure they are available new anymore, but Dixie does
carry parts if you need them. There are sutlers at events that sell
parts also - eventually everyone will need a new frizzen.

Did your Bess come with a flashguard? You must have this at events, as
well as a leather hammer stall which you can make yourself with a few
inches of leather. If you don't have a flashguard and you are going to
install one you will need a spring vise or something that will hold
the frizzen spring in place so that you can open the frizzen screw,
insert the guard and return the screw.  A lot of guys have brass
guards but there are chrome available that blend right in with the
lock. You can get a flashguard at Dixie or Dixons - or any of the
other sutlers online.

You are also going to need a good supply of flints and the Bess takes
a BIG flint. Again, available at all mentioned. You may want lead
flint wrappers or leather - you can make the leather. You can make the
lead too if you can get soft sheet lead. Keep several flints with you
at events - you never know when the darn thing decides not to fire any
more with the current flint in the hammer. Carry a period turnscrew
with you to replace the flint and get it good and tight. (Also
available from the sutlers.)

I am not a hunter but I know that hunting with a smoothbore is a
challenge. Remember that at the start of the Revolution there was no
command to Aim - just Present - because of the inaccuracy of the
weapon. As the war progressed Washington changed the command to Aim
because he saw that the guys were not paying much attention to any
direction that they were firing at. The effectiveness of this weapon
in battle was the quantity of fire from a line of men - not the
quality of fire. The objective was to rain lead down upon the opposing
line.

Have fun!

Robert


--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Mike Skelly <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> I looked my "new" Bess over this weekend. I found some
> surface rust inside the bore but was generally very
> pleased with her.
>
> It is a Japanese Bess and so billed as 75 caliber. The
> two balls provided with her (yes only two!) are .731
> on my calipers. I have not yet weighed them.
>
> I rolled ten cartridges of FFF for myself for smoke
> making. I was unsure of the recommended charge so I
> loaded 5 with 75 grains and 5 with 100 grains. First
> question: What is the recommended load for reenacting
> events?
>
> The Bess's previous owner told me that:
>
> "It patterns well for turkey with 1.5 oz of copper
> plated # 6 shot to
> ~40 yards. My deer load of a .735 ball over 90 grains
> of FF black
> powder works well in this gun."
>
>
> He had a photo of himself with the Bess and a nice 8
> point, so I am
> inclined to think that 90 grains might be a reasonable
> load to play
> with.
>
> Question #2 - Does anyone have a recommended load for
> hunting other
> than this?
>
> Question #3 - Seeing as the .73 balls roll freely down
> the barrel,
> should they be patched for better accuracy or does the
> cartridge
> paper serve as a patch? (I have not loaded any
> cartridges with ball
> yet).
>
> Something tells me that not every local shop is going
> to stock .7+
> claiber balls. So I measured a 12 guage slug and found
> it to be
> about .69 caliber. I'm thinking that in the abscence
> of other
> projectiles a poatched 12 gauge slug COULD work. has
> anyone here
> tried that yet?
>
> I'll probably try a few at my first range session
> anyhow. Does
> anyone else have a local source for ready made 3/4
> inch chunks of
> lead?
>
> Thanks in advance - Mike.
>
>
>
> --- rrambrose <rambros1@o...> wrote:
> > Mike -
> >
> > What company made your Bess?
> > One of the reasons, I think, that the repro muskets
> > cost so much is
> > that there is a lot of research and accuracy that
> > has to go into the
> > initial manufacture. The Bess is larger than most
> > muzzleloaders and
> > has a lot of historical detail in its design. Most
> > are imported - the
> > most popular and most reliable is the Pederosoli and
> > it is coming from
> > Italy. As the exhange rate and import duty vary so
> > does the price.
> > PLUS the companies know that there are a lot of
> > crazy reenactors
> > (myself included) that are going to pay the price
> > because you have got
> > to have one.
> >
> > Robert
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Skelly

To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Monday, May 16, 2005 8:39 AM

Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess

Tony:

Thanks.
The ONLY reason to charge so much for a Bess - is that
the rest of us dummies PAY it!

My used one cost about the price of oine of teh new
imports but it came with a bunch of accessories, so I
think I got a fair deal.

But as to WHY a bess has to cost more than a modern
firearm - it just don't make no sense....

--- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@...> wrote:
> Congratulations on getting the bess.
> I wonder why the companies that make replica's
> charge so much for a new bess?
> You would think that it would cost less because they
> don't have to add rifling.
> I know that I'm showing my ignorance in this
> question.
> Recon ILL call my self dumb bear for a handle.
> Tony.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Mike Skelly
>   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:34 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess
>
>
>   Yes a Bess is a smooth bore - mine is .75 caliber
> :)
>   Picked her up yesterday :D
>
>   --- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@...> wrote:
>   >
>   > Don't feel too bad there.
>   > Yahoo sometimes sends me two of everything and I
>   > think my
>   > delete button is busted.
>   > Brown Bess is a smooth bore isn't it?
>   > Please forgive my ignorance.
>   > Tony.
>   >
>   >
>   >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: rrambrose
>   >   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   >   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:10 PM
>   >   Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess
>   >
>   >
>   >   Ok - I will try posting this again. I cannot
>   > believe that Yahoo lost
>   >   this the first time around.
>   >
>   >
>
>
>              
>   __________________________________
>   Yahoo! Mail Mobile
>   Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone.
>   http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
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>
>
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>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muzzleloaders/
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
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>
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muzzleloaders/

I looked my "new" Bess over this weekend. I found some
surface rust inside the bore but was generally very
pleased with her.

It is a Japanese Bess and so billed as 75 caliber. The
two balls provided with her (yes only two!) are .731
on my calipers. I have not yet weighed them.

I rolled ten cartridges of FFF for myself for smoke
making. I was unsure of the recommended charge so I
loaded 5 with 75 grains and 5 with 100 grains. First
question: What is the recommended load for reenacting
events?

The Bess's previous owner told me that:

"It patterns well for turkey with 1.5 oz of copper
plated # 6 shot to
~40 yards. My deer load of a .735 ball over 90 grains
of FF black
powder works well in this gun."


He had a photo of himself with the Bess and a nice 8
point, so I am
inclined to think that 90 grains might be a reasonable
load to play
with.

Question #2 - Does anyone have a recommended load for
hunting other
than this?

Question #3 - Seeing as the .73 balls roll freely down
the barrel,
should they be patched for better accuracy or does the
cartridge
paper serve as a patch? (I have not loaded any
cartridges with ball
yet).

Something tells me that not every local shop is going
to stock .7+
claiber balls. So I measured a 12 guage slug and found
it to be
about .69 caliber. I'm thinking that in the abscence
of other
projectiles a poatched 12 gauge slug COULD work. has
anyone here
tried that yet?

I'll probably try a few at my first range session
anyhow. Does
anyone else have a local source for ready made 3/4
inch chunks of
lead?

Thanks in advance - Mike.



--- rrambrose <rambros1@...> wrote:
> Mike -
>
> What company made your Bess?
> One of the reasons, I think, that the repro muskets
> cost so much is
> that there is a lot of research and accuracy that
> has to go into the
> initial manufacture. The Bess is larger than most
> muzzleloaders and
> has a lot of historical detail in its design. Most
> are imported - the
> most popular and most reliable is the Pederosoli and
> it is coming from
> Italy. As the exhange rate and import duty vary so
> does the price.
> PLUS the companies know that there are a lot of
> crazy reenactors
> (myself included) that are going to pay the price
> because you have got
> to have one.
>
> Robert
>
>



Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

Mike -

What company made your Bess?
One of the reasons, I think, that the repro muskets cost so much is
that there is a lot of research and accuracy that has to go into the
initial manufacture. The Bess is larger than most muzzleloaders and
has a lot of historical detail in its design. Most are imported - the
most popular and most reliable is the Pederosoli and it is coming from
Italy. As the exhange rate and import duty vary so does the price.
PLUS the companies know that there are a lot of crazy reenactors
(myself included) that are going to pay the price because you have got
to have one.

Robert

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Mike Skelly <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> Tony:
>
> Thanks.
> The ONLY reason to charge so much for a Bess - is that
> the rest of us dummies PAY it!
>
> My used one cost about the price of oine of teh new
> imports but it came with a bunch of accessories, so I
> think I got a fair deal.
>
> But as to WHY a bess has to cost more than a modern
> firearm - it just don't make no sense....
>

Tony:

Thanks.
The ONLY reason to charge so much for a Bess - is that
the rest of us dummies PAY it!

My used one cost about the price of oine of teh new
imports but it came with a bunch of accessories, so I
think I got a fair deal.

But as to WHY a bess has to cost more than a modern
firearm - it just don't make no sense....

--- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@...> wrote:
> Congratulations on getting the bess.
> I wonder why the companies that make replica's
> charge so much for a new bess?
> You would think that it would cost less because they
> don't have to add rifling.
> I know that I'm showing my ignorance in this
> question.
> Recon ILL call my self dumb bear for a handle.
> Tony.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Mike Skelly
>   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:34 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess
>
>
>   Yes a Bess is a smooth bore - mine is .75 caliber
> :)
>   Picked her up yesterday :D
>
>   --- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@...> wrote:
>   >
>   > Don't feel too bad there.
>   > Yahoo sometimes sends me two of everything and I
>   > think my
>   > delete button is busted.
>   > Brown Bess is a smooth bore isn't it?
>   > Please forgive my ignorance.
>   > Tony.
>   >
>   >
>   >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: rrambrose
>   >   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   >   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:10 PM
>   >   Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess
>   >
>   >
>   >   Ok - I will try posting this again. I cannot
>   > believe that Yahoo lost
>   >   this the first time around.
>   >
>   >
>
>
>
>   __________________________________
>   Yahoo! Mail Mobile
>   Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your
> mobile phone.
>   http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
>
>
>
>   Muzzleloaders Group:
>   http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muzzleloaders/
>
>
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>   Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>     a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muzzleloaders/
>
>     b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an
> email to:
>     Muzzleloaders-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>     c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the
> Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>



Discover Yahoo!
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----- Original Message -----

From: Mike Skelly

To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 1:34 PM

Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess

Yes a Bess is a smooth bore - mine is .75 caliber :)
Picked her up yesterday :D

--- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@...> wrote:
>
> Don't feel too bad there.
> Yahoo sometimes sends me two of everything and I
> think my
> delete button is busted.
> Brown Bess is a smooth bore isn't it?
> Please forgive my ignorance.
> Tony.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: rrambrose
>   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:10 PM
>   Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess
>
>
>   Ok - I will try posting this again. I cannot
> believe that Yahoo lost
>   this the first time around.
>
>


           
__________________________________
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muzzleloaders/

----- Original Message -----

From: ALandFERN

To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, May 13, 2005 2:52 PM

Subject: Re: [Muzzleloaders] blown patches

I have heard the same thing (but I don't want to try
it).  Basically what is happening is a lot of unburned
powder is flying out the end of the gun.

Al.
--- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@...> wrote:
> I accidentaly loaded a .50 Pensylvalia Long Rifle
> with 100 grains.
> The rifle held together.
> I guess they can take an accidental overload.
> Tony.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: tandemnorth
>   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:49 PM
>   Subject: [Muzzleloaders] blown patches
>
>
>   I recently fired my 50 caliber flintlock Hawken
> (Cabella) for the
>   first time on the firing range.  I was shooting
> .490 round balls with
>   from 50 to 80 grains of black powder using .015
> thickness prelubed
>   patches (manufacturer says don't go over 90
> grains).  At 50 to 70
>   grains the patches were not cut or "blown" but
> came out of the barrel
>   in pretty good shape.  At 80 grains however, they
> were decidedly in
>   bad shape - looked more like a long thin piece of
> torn cloth than a
>   circular patch.  I plan to use this gun for deer
> hunting so I was
>   thinking that I would shoot with 80 grains of
> powder for maximum
>   energy but at least one person has recommended
> that I back off to
>   where the patches do not blow out.  Any thoughts?
> I did not notice a
>   degredation in accuracy when the patches blew out
> (at 35 yards all
>   shots were within a 4 inch circle - maybe not
> great but the best I
>   could do with open sights). 
>
>   Al.
>
>
>


           
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http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muzzleloaders/

I have heard the same thing (but I don't want to try
it).  Basically what is happening is a lot of unburned
powder is flying out the end of the gun.

Al.
--- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@...> wrote:
> I accidentaly loaded a .50 Pensylvalia Long Rifle
> with 100 grains.
> The rifle held together.
> I guess they can take an accidental overload.
> Tony.
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: tandemnorth
>   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:49 PM
>   Subject: [Muzzleloaders] blown patches
>
>
>   I recently fired my 50 caliber flintlock Hawken
> (Cabella) for the
>   first time on the firing range.  I was shooting
> .490 round balls with
>   from 50 to 80 grains of black powder using .015
> thickness prelubed
>   patches (manufacturer says don't go over 90
> grains).  At 50 to 70
>   grains the patches were not cut or "blown" but
> came out of the barrel
>   in pretty good shape.  At 80 grains however, they
> were decidedly in
>   bad shape - looked more like a long thin piece of
> torn cloth than a
>   circular patch.  I plan to use this gun for deer
> hunting so I was
>   thinking that I would shoot with 80 grains of
> powder for maximum
>   energy but at least one person has recommended
> that I back off to
>   where the patches do not blow out.  Any thoughts?
> I did not notice a
>   degredation in accuracy when the patches blew out
> (at 35 yards all
>   shots were within a 4 inch circle - maybe not
> great but the best I
>   could do with open sights).
>
>   Al.
>
>
>



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I have my 75 caliber smooth bore Brown Bess flintlock.  Turkey season
is open.  Any suggestions for a shot load?

Yes a Bess is a smooth bore - mine is .75 caliber :)
Picked her up yesterday :D

--- Tony <thestickof_ephrm@...> wrote:
>
> Don't feel too bad there.
> Yahoo sometimes sends me two of everything and I
> think my
> delete button is busted.
> Brown Bess is a smooth bore isn't it?
> Please forgive my ignorance.
> Tony.
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: rrambrose
>   To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:10 PM
>   Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess
>
>
>   Ok - I will try posting this again. I cannot
> believe that Yahoo lost
>   this the first time around.
>
>



__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail

----- Original Message -----

From: tandemnorth

To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 12, 2005 5:49 PM

Subject: [Muzzleloaders] blown patches

I recently fired my 50 caliber flintlock Hawken (Cabella) for the
first time on the firing range.  I was shooting .490 round balls with
from 50 to 80 grains of black powder using .015 thickness prelubed
patches (manufacturer says don't go over 90 grains).  At 50 to 70
grains the patches were not cut or "blown" but came out of the barrel
in pretty good shape.  At 80 grains however, they were decidedly in
bad shape - looked more like a long thin piece of torn cloth than a
circular patch.  I plan to use this gun for deer hunting so I was
thinking that I would shoot with 80 grains of powder for maximum
energy but at least one person has recommended that I back off to
where the patches do not blow out.  Any thoughts?  I did not notice a
degredation in accuracy when the patches blew out (at 35 yards all
shots were within a 4 inch circle - maybe not great but the best I
could do with open sights). 

Al.

----- Original Message -----

From: rrambrose

To: Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2005 11:10 PM

Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning a Brown Bess

Ok - I will try posting this again. I cannot believe that Yahoo lost
this the first time around.

Try putting a backer patch down on the powder before
you seat the patched ball. This will take the brunt of
the initial burn of the powder and help keep your
patch from blowing. DO NOT double patch the ball. You
can also use a vegatable fiber wad if it will fit your
bore. Another option is using a punch to cut your own
wads out of various materials.



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I recently fired my 50 caliber flintlock Hawken (Cabella) for the
first time on the firing range.  I was shooting .490 round balls with
from 50 to 80 grains of black powder using .015 thickness prelubed
patches (manufacturer says don't go over 90 grains).  At 50 to 70
grains the patches were not cut or "blown" but came out of the barrel
in pretty good shape.  At 80 grains however, they were decidedly in
bad shape - looked more like a long thin piece of torn cloth than a
circular patch.  I plan to use this gun for deer hunting so I was
thinking that I would shoot with 80 grains of powder for maximum
energy but at least one person has recommended that I back off to
where the patches do not blow out.  Any thoughts?  I did not notice a
degredation in accuracy when the patches blew out (at 35 yards all
shots were within a 4 inch circle - maybe not great but the best I
could do with open sights).

Al.

Thank you to all of you for your replies!
I hope to pick Bess up TODAY!


--- rrambrose <rambros1@...> wrote:

> Ok - I will try posting this again. I cannot believe
> that Yahoo lost
> this the first time around.
>
> This is how I clean my Brown Bess. All of the
> cleaning tools are
> attached to the ramrod with a female/female adapter.
> The cleaning
> tools must be sized for the Bess. Don't use a
> smaller diameter
> (caliber). The barrel is never removed from the
> stock - on a Brown
> Bess you take too much of a chance of loosening or
> losing the pins.
>
> 1. I start by running a breech scraper down the
> barrel. When you first
> pull this out do it over a pail because a lot of
> residue powder is
> coming out with it. The first time it is hard to
> pull out and it gets
> easier the second and third time.
>
> 2. Now use the breech scraper to clean the breech
> plug. Put it down
> the barrel again and turn it on the plug - when it
> hits bottom you are
> scraping the plug. Remove the rod and tip the barrel
> into a pail and
> more powder reisdue will pour out. Do this a few
> times.
>
> 3. Now remove the lock from the stock - just unscrew
> the two screws on
> the back and be careful not to drop the lock off the
> musket. It all
> goes back together easily so don't be concerned
> about taking it off.
>
> 4. With the lock off you need to plug the touchhole.
> I use a dowel
> sharpened in a pencil sharpener. Fit the point into
> the touchhole and
> push it in gently. It should just stay in.
>
> 5. Now get a funnel and bring the musket over to a
> slop sink or go
> outside and get a bucket of hot water. Don't do this
> in your kitchen
> or your bathroom as you will find a nasty black
> stain on the porcelain
> when you are finished. (I know because I cleaned the
> Bess once in a
> hotel room and I am not sure how they cleaned the
> sink the next day.)
> I once tried boiling water and found that rust
> formed in the barrel as
> I was cleaning. After being advised to use the
> boiling water I was
> told just to use hot water from the tap to avoid the
> quick rusting
> action. You are going to now pour water into the
> funnel and down the
> barrel with a cup or container. Don't put too much
> in or it will
> overflow the  barrel and wet the stock too much. I
> hold the top with a
> paper towel wrapped around the edge of the barrel to
> avoid spills.
> Make sure your touchhole plug is holding or you will
> get a wet leg.
> Let the water stand in the barrel for a few seconds
> and them pour it
> out. I give the musket a little twist as I pour so
> that the water
> touches the entire barrel inside. Do this until the
> water comes out
> clear.
>
> 6. I next set the Bess into a stand with padded
> edges that I built
> onto a workmate and get a cleaning patch. I soak it
> in water and drape
> it over a cleaning jag or "pump" on the end of the
> rammer and send it
> down the barrel. Despite the clear water in the
> sink, this comes out
> black. Do this a number of times until it comes out
> fairly clean -
> mostly it stays grey - with luck it is white. I have
> also used two
> layers of paper towel ripped to the size of a patch
> to clean with
> instead of cloth patches - they work just as well
> and are cheap.
>
> 7. The next step is optional - I use a commercial
> bore cleaner on a
> cloth patch next just for the extra cleaning. I use
> Thompson Center
> No. 13 Blackpowder Bore Cleaner. I run a few
> cleaning patches with
> this and sometimes it picks up more powder residue.
>
> 8. Now to dry the barrel I run two layers of paper
> towel patches down
> the barrel. I keep doing this until they come out
> completely dry. The
> paper towel also has a very, very fine abrasive
> action and it polishes
> the inside of the barrel with no harm.
>
> 9. Now remove the touchhole plug and wet a towel and
> clean the outside
> area of the barrel where the touchhole is, the stock
> around the
> touchhole, and the outside end of the muzzle. Dry
> these off well.
>
> 10. Next put some Bore Butter on a cloth patch.
> Drape it over the jag
> and run it down the barrel. Do this a few times to
> lube and protect
> the inside from rust. I use the green mint scent as
> my good wife
> complained that the regular's odor was not pleasant
> in the house. WIpe
> down the ramrod with a wet towel, dry it off, and
> then put some bore
> butter on it to keep it from rusting.
>
> 11. Next you have to clean the lock. Remove the
> flint and take the
> lock over to the slop sink. Hold the outside of the
> lock under running
> hot water. Concentrate on the pan and the frizzen,
> but there is powder
> residue hiding under the hammer, near the frizzen
> spring, etc. The
> inside is going to get wet but keep the water
> running mostly on the
> outer chrome. Scrubit down with a wet paper towel. I
> work the action
> and all the moving parts to make sure I get it all
> clean. The little
> black bar sticking out the back is what is tripped
> by the trigger and
> you can move this to release the hammer. It will
> jump when you release
> the spring and the hammer jumps forward.
>
> 12. Now dry the lock off very well - move the
> mechanism and dry under
> everything. Again paper towels do a nice job. I next
> use three in one
> oil to lube all moving parts - inside and outside -
> especially inside.
> Work and move the parts with the oil. Do not use too
> much oil or it
> will drip out later, long after you set the musket
> down waiting for
> next use. Wipe all the excess oil off.
>
> 13. Put the flint back. If you use a leather flint
> wrapper replace it
> with a new one. If you use a lead one then clean
> that off under water,
> dry it and put it back on the flint.
>
> 14. Screw the lock back on the Bess. Just set it
> into the cutout,
> gently push it in and allow the screws to set it
> into place. Do not
> over tighten the screws.
>
> 15. I next use a metal polish and go over all of the
> metal and the
> brass. I use the type that is already in the wadding
> and rips from a
> can. Next, hand buff the polish to a shine.
>
> 16. I now use Gun Stock Wax and put it on everything
> - lock, stock,
> and barrel. It will give a protective coating and
> leave the Bess
> looking good. Buff this off with a soft cloth. This
> also oils the wood
> en stock in the areas of high heat around the
> touchhole where it gets
> scorched and drys out from the powder charge, in
> addition to where it
> got wet in the cleaning process.
>
> In the end I keep my Bess looking new. Yes it takes
> a long time -
> sometimes it seems too long when you have spent the
> whole day at an
> event. I get a lot of comments from guys about my
> "new" Bess. It is
> five years old and still looks new and it gets a lot
> of use. For a
> $900 investment I am going to keep it in as best
> condition as I can.
> In 1776 the musket looked new and a soldier was
> punished for not
> keeping it looking that way. Guys with muskets that
> look 225 years old
> - when the mustket is just as new as mine are not
> period correct - as
> they think they are. Over time even with cleaning it
> will still show
> some rust and corrosion - but it will not turn black
> as many
> renenactors muskets have.  If you don't care how it
> looks then stop at
> step 14  - to clean it and keep it working you have
> to go that far.
> The rest only takes a few minutes more.
>
> Hope this helps.
>
> Robert A
>
>
>
>




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Ok - I will try posting this again. I cannot believe that Yahoo lost
this the first time around.

This is how I clean my Brown Bess. All of the cleaning tools are
attached to the ramrod with a female/female adapter. The cleaning
tools must be sized for the Bess. Don't use a smaller diameter
(caliber). The barrel is never removed from the stock - on a Brown
Bess you take too much of a chance of loosening or losing the pins.

1. I start by running a breech scraper down the barrel. When you first
pull this out do it over a pail because a lot of residue powder is
coming out with it. The first time it is hard to pull out and it gets
easier the second and third time.

2. Now use the breech scraper to clean the breech plug. Put it down
the barrel again and turn it on the plug - when it hits bottom you are
scraping the plug. Remove the rod and tip the barrel into a pail and
more powder reisdue will pour out. Do this a few times.

3. Now remove the lock from the stock - just unscrew the two screws on
the back and be careful not to drop the lock off the musket. It all
goes back together easily so don't be concerned about taking it off.

4. With the lock off you need to plug the touchhole. I use a dowel
sharpened in a pencil sharpener. Fit the point into the touchhole and
push it in gently. It should just stay in.

5. Now get a funnel and bring the musket over to a slop sink or go
outside and get a bucket of hot water. Don't do this in your kitchen
or your bathroom as you will find a nasty black stain on the porcelain
when you are finished. (I know because I cleaned the Bess once in a
hotel room and I am not sure how they cleaned the sink the next day.)
I once tried boiling water and found that rust formed in the barrel as
I was cleaning. After being advised to use the boiling water I was
told just to use hot water from the tap to avoid the quick rusting
action. You are going to now pour water into the funnel and down the
barrel with a cup or container. Don't put too much in or it will
overflow the  barrel and wet the stock too much. I hold the top with a
paper towel wrapped around the edge of the barrel to avoid spills.
Make sure your touchhole plug is holding or you will get a wet leg.
Let the water stand in the barrel for a few seconds and them pour it
out. I give the musket a little twist as I pour so that the water
touches the entire barrel inside. Do this until the water comes out
clear.

6. I next set the Bess into a stand with padded edges that I built
onto a workmate and get a cleaning patch. I soak it in water and drape
it over a cleaning jag or "pump" on the end of the rammer and send it
down the barrel. Despite the clear water in the sink, this comes out
black. Do this a number of times until it comes out fairly clean -
mostly it stays grey - with luck it is white. I have also used two
layers of paper towel ripped to the size of a patch to clean with
instead of cloth patches - they work just as well and are cheap.

7. The next step is optional - I use a commercial bore cleaner on a
cloth patch next just for the extra cleaning. I use Thompson Center
No. 13 Blackpowder Bore Cleaner. I run a few cleaning patches with
this and sometimes it picks up more powder residue.

8. Now to dry the barrel I run two layers of paper towel patches down
the barrel. I keep doing this until they come out completely dry. The
paper towel also has a very, very fine abrasive action and it polishes
the inside of the barrel with no harm.

9. Now remove the touchhole plug and wet a towel and clean the outside
area of the barrel where the touchhole is, the stock around the
touchhole, and the outside end of the muzzle. Dry these off well.

10. Next put some Bore Butter on a cloth patch. Drape it over the jag
and run it down the barrel. Do this a few times to lube and protect
the inside from rust. I use the green mint scent as my good wife
complained that the regular's odor was not pleasant in the house. WIpe
down the ramrod with a wet towel, dry it off, and then put some bore
butter on it to keep it from rusting.

11. Next you have to clean the lock. Remove the flint and take the
lock over to the slop sink. Hold the outside of the lock under running
hot water. Concentrate on the pan and the frizzen, but there is powder
residue hiding under the hammer, near the frizzen spring, etc. The
inside is going to get wet but keep the water running mostly on the
outer chrome. Scrubit down with a wet paper towel. I work the action
and all the moving parts to make sure I get it all clean. The little
black bar sticking out the back is what is tripped by the trigger and
you can move this to release the hammer. It will jump when you release
the spring and the hammer jumps forward.

12. Now dry the lock off very well - move the mechanism and dry under
everything. Again paper towels do a nice job. I next use three in one
oil to lube all moving parts - inside and outside - especially inside.
Work and move the parts with the oil. Do not use too much oil or it
will drip out later, long after you set the musket down waiting for
next use. Wipe all the excess oil off.

13. Put the flint back. If you use a leather flint wrapper replace it
with a new one. If you use a lead one then clean that off under water,
dry it and put it back on the flint.

14. Screw the lock back on the Bess. Just set it into the cutout,
gently push it in and allow the screws to set it into place. Do not
over tighten the screws.

15. I next use a metal polish and go over all of the metal and the
brass. I use the type that is already in the wadding and rips from a
can. Next, hand buff the polish to a shine.

16. I now use Gun Stock Wax and put it on everything - lock, stock,
and barrel. It will give a protective coating and leave the Bess
looking good. Buff this off with a soft cloth. This also oils the wood
en stock in the areas of high heat around the touchhole where it gets
scorched and drys out from the powder charge, in addition to where it
got wet in the cleaning process.

In the end I keep my Bess looking new. Yes it takes a long time -
sometimes it seems too long when you have spent the whole day at an
event. I get a lot of comments from guys about my "new" Bess. It is
five years old and still looks new and it gets a lot of use. For a
$900 investment I am going to keep it in as best condition as I can.
In 1776 the musket looked new and a soldier was punished for not
keeping it looking that way. Guys with muskets that look 225 years old
- when the mustket is just as new as mine are not period correct - as
they think they are. Over time even with cleaning it will still show
some rust and corrosion - but it will not turn black as many
renenactors muskets have.  If you don't care how it looks then stop at
step 14  - to clean it and keep it working you have to go that far.
The rest only takes a few minutes more.

Hope this helps.

Robert A

Hi there,

I clean my Kentucky flintlock by removing the barrel from the stock and
removing the touch-hole liner.  First I start with the cleaning brush and
some black powder solvent to get the worst of the goo out.  Then I stand the
barrel in a shallow pan of soapy water and use a wet patch and the cleaning
jag to "pump" the soapy water through the barrel.  As the water gets dirty,
I change it for a clean pan of water.  Once the patch and the water come out
clean, I run fresh water through the barrel to rinse it out.  Then a couple
of dry patches and the bore mop to get rid of the water.  Once I've got it
dry, I lube and reassemble.  Seems to work nicely for me.  Hope this helps.

Kev.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike" <mssgn3@...>
To: <Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Monday, May 09, 2005 12:27 PM
Subject: [Muzzleloaders] Cleaning?


> How best to clean Black Powder from my Brown Bess?
>
> What slution, tools, techniqus etc.?
>
> My Caplock with synthetic stock is fine with Hoppes etc.  But what
> about teh tarditional arm?
>
> What do you use, recommend, suggest?
>
> Thanks - Mike.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Muzzleloaders Group:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Muzzleloaders/
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

My barrel is easy to remove from the stock.  I removed
the barrel then unscrewed the touchhole then close off
the touchhole temporarily with a piece of electrical
tape (this will allow you to pour the hot water down
the barrel and let it soak a few minutes.  Then boil
water on the stove in a teakettle.  Take the barrel
and the hot water outside and with a wire hook, I hold
the barrel upright and fill it with boiling water.
After waiting a while, I remove the tape let the gunk
flow out and then keep pouring hot water down the
barrel until the water runs clear.  The hot barrel
will dry relatively quickly afterwhich I run dry
patches until reasonalby clean.  Let the barrel sit
upside down overnight and the next day run a lubed
patch, rub some lube on the outside of the barrel,
reassemlbe.

Also have to clean the touchhole, the frizen, and the
area near the pan ignition.

Al.
--- Mike Skelly <mssgn3@...> wrote:
> Just straight hot water then a couple dry patches?
>
> --- ALandFERN <tandemnorth@...> wrote:
> >...  So my cleaning patches will never really
> > clean all the way to the bottom of the bore.  It
> is
> > boiling hot water for me from now on.  Although
> that
> > barrel gets pretty hot to handle.
> >
> > Al.
> > --- Mike <mssgn3@...> wrote:
> > > ---er that should be "solution" of course....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
> > tour:
> > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
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>



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IF only it were that simple.I just posted an extensive reply and Yahoo
seems to have lost it. If it is not on the group by tomorrow, I will
try to re-write it.

Robert

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Mike Skelly <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> Just straight hot water then a couple dry patches?
>
> --- ALandFERN <tandemnorth@y...> wrote:
> >...  So my cleaning patches will never really
> > clean all the way to the bottom of the bore.  It is
> > boiling hot water for me from now on.  Although that
> > barrel gets pretty hot to handle.
> >
> > Al.
> > --- Mike <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> > > ---er that should be "solution" of course....
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
> > tour:
> > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
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> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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Just straight hot water then a couple dry patches?

--- ALandFERN <tandemnorth@...> wrote:
>...  So my cleaning patches will never really
> clean all the way to the bottom of the bore.  It is
> boiling hot water for me from now on.  Although that
> barrel gets pretty hot to handle.
>
> Al.
> --- Mike <mssgn3@...> wrote:
> > ---er that should be "solution" of course....
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
> tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>
>

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I just in the last month started to use and clean my
50 caliber Hawken flintlock.  What I have found out is
that the modern way of using chemicals and cleaning
patches is not all its cracked up to be.  You are
instructed to keep putting cleaning patches down the
bore with your ramrod and jag until the patches come
out clean.  Well they never really do, and I think I
found out why.  I removed my touchhole and ran a
cleaning patch down the barrel while I watched at the
hole.  Guess what?  The ramrod and jag with cleaning
patch bottomed out and I never did see it at the
touchhole.  So my cleaning patches will never really
clean all the way to the bottom of the bore.  It is
boiling hot water for me from now on.  Although that
barrel gets pretty hot to handle.

Al.
--- Mike <mssgn3@...> wrote:
> ---er that should be "solution" of course....
>
>
>



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Still for sale.

Dane did you get the photos?

$125 includes rifle, ramrod, tools, accessories, sabots....

Dane did you get the photos?

Syill for sale and still CHEAP!

--- In Muzzleloaders@yahoogroups.com, Mike Skelly <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> Dane:
>
> If you are still interested I'll try to get the photo
> out to you tonight - Mike.
>
>
> --- Dane Evans <quills1985@y...> wrote:
> > Mike,
> >
> >
> >       Can you send a pic of this gun? I'm interested
> > in it. Thanks in advance.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- Mike <mssgn3@y...> wrote:
> > >
> > > CVA synthetic stocked "Staghorn" in line rifle for
> > > sale with tools,
> > > sabots, and projectiles.  I took a white tail at
> > 85
> > > yards with this
> > > rifle a few years ago but I am funding the
> > purchase
> > > of a flintlock with
> > > my percussion guns.
> > >
> > > I'll ship to you for $125 (they are going for
> > about
> > > $175 new).
> > >
> > > ((Will also trade for Brown Bess accessories or
> > 308
> > > ammo))
> > >
> > > Please email with any questions.  I can email
> > photos
> > > on request.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > __________________________________
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
> > http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
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