I got my frame back from the painters - looks like new (it's a 1982)!

Putting most of the original components back on, but I am going to 700c wheels. 
I would
love to hear what folks have tried on this front.

Matt

We are all very fortunate to have access to the wealth
of cycling knowledge that Sheldon Brown has recorded
for posterity. Thank you Sheldon. And Harris Cyclery.

Terry in LP


      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

This what I use with standard MTB chain (SRAM P-58),
chain rings, derailleurs etc.  It works great.

Kevin

http://cgi.ebay.com/New-Old-Stock-Suntour-Winner-Ultra-7-Speed-Freewheel_W0QQite\
mZ280190976014QQihZ018QQcategoryZ42328QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD1VQQtrksidZp1638.m118\
.l1247QQcmdZViewItem


--- rfcopple <rfcopple@...> wrote:

> I like the freewheel idea.  I noticed that Nashbar
> has a 7-speed
> freewheel for cheap.  Would a 7-speed freewheel work
> with the
> original staghorn derailuer?
>
> --- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, "rfcopple"
> <rfcopple@...>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > I am new to this forum, but not new to road biking
> or to restoring
> > classic bikes.  For example, I'm presently
> restoring a beautiful
> 1988-
> > 89 Team Fuji slope top tube TT bike.
> >
> > I was recently given a 1984 cobalt blue Miyata
> 1000.  After
> cleaning
> > it up, it is apparent that the bike might have
> been ridden around
> the
> > block once or twice.  It is pristine.
> >
> > I am considering upgrading the 1000 with modern
> components and have
> a
> > few questions, if you would be so kind. I
> anticipate I would use
> the
> > bike for road riding and light (non
> loaded)touring.
> >
> > 1) How does the 1000 frame compare with more
> comtemporary steel
> > touring bikes, such as a late model Trek 520?  Is
> it worth putting
> in
> > the money and time?
> >
> > 2) I think I want to go 9-speed.  I know I will
> need a new wheel.
> > Will I have a problem with the width of the
> dropouts?
> >
> > 3) Will the stock Shimano (XT?) derailleur handle
> 9 speed?  If not,
> I
> > have a spare 9 speed 105 derailleur I could use.
> >
> > 4) I would want to install 9 speed bar end
> shifters.  The stock
> down
> > tube shifters appear to be attached to a metal
> band around the
> tube.
> > Are there braze ons under the band or will I have
> to find a band
> that
> > will handle cable stops?  If so, where can I find
> this part?
> >
> > 5) What would be a good 9 speed gear ratio for my
> expected use?
> >
> > 6) Will I need to replace the chain rings?
> >
> > 7) What do you recommend for tires?  I was
> consider 700 X 28 Avocet
> > Cross.
> >
> > 8) Anything else I should consider?
> >
> > Thanks so much for your thoughts.
> >
> > Best Regards,
> >
> > RFC
> >
>
>
>



      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Looking for last minute shopping deals?
Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping

I've kept the 6 and 7 speed rears on all of my older
(mid '80s Miyata, Specialized, Univega, Centurion,
Trek) bike restorations. I also stocked up on
wheelsets, hubs, freewheels, cassettes and other parts
during the time (past 10 years) I was buying the
bikes though.

That's what I rode on them back then and it is still
good enough for me now. I have adjusted the front
rings some to reduce the ratios a bit though. Works
well enough here in relatively flat Louisiana.

Terry in LP



      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

I like the freewheel idea.  I noticed that Nashbar has a 7-speed
freewheel for cheap.  Would a 7-speed freewheel work with the
original staghorn derailuer?

--- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, "rfcopple" <rfcopple@...>
wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> I am new to this forum, but not new to road biking or to restoring
> classic bikes.  For example, I'm presently restoring a beautiful
1988-
> 89 Team Fuji slope top tube TT bike.
>
> I was recently given a 1984 cobalt blue Miyata 1000.  After
cleaning
> it up, it is apparent that the bike might have been ridden around
the
> block once or twice.  It is pristine.
>
> I am considering upgrading the 1000 with modern components and have
a
> few questions, if you would be so kind. I anticipate I would use
the
> bike for road riding and light (non loaded)touring.
>
> 1) How does the 1000 frame compare with more comtemporary steel
> touring bikes, such as a late model Trek 520?  Is it worth putting
in
> the money and time?
>
> 2) I think I want to go 9-speed.  I know I will need a new wheel.
> Will I have a problem with the width of the dropouts?
>
> 3) Will the stock Shimano (XT?) derailleur handle 9 speed?  If not,
I
> have a spare 9 speed 105 derailleur I could use.
>
> 4) I would want to install 9 speed bar end shifters.  The stock
down
> tube shifters appear to be attached to a metal band around the
tube.
> Are there braze ons under the band or will I have to find a band
that
> will handle cable stops?  If so, where can I find this part?
>
> 5) What would be a good 9 speed gear ratio for my expected use?
>
> 6) Will I need to replace the chain rings?
>
> 7) What do you recommend for tires?  I was consider 700 X 28 Avocet
> Cross.
>
> 8) Anything else I should consider?
>
> Thanks so much for your thoughts.
>
> Best Regards,
>
> RFC
>

Andy, Those IRD freewheels look great. Nickel plated and all.
Actually, a lot better looking than even the top of the line Suntour
from the day. I hadn't heard of IRD before. I only wish they'd expand
to a 34T. With a 32T low gear, I could change the granny gear on the
crank from 24 to a 22, giving about the same gear inches as 24x34.
That's a thought.

What I don't like about the Shimano MegaRange is the jump from a 24T
to 34T, with nothing in between. That doesn't really suit my style of
riding.

Thanks for this tip, Andy!

All the best,

Ted

--- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Sohn <a.sohn@...> wrote:
>
> Ted:  The IRD Defiant series are the ones I was thinking about.
They only go to 13-32 teeth though.  I am not a tourer (yet) so
perhaps this is a limitation versus a 34.  These are apparently built
to the standard of the last generation Shimano 600 freewheels which
had supposedly had a great reputation.  I have an old 600 freewheel
that is still going strong and it is light, well-sealed and generally
nice.
> http://www.interlocracing.com/freewheels_steel.html
>
> Shimano still make a "mega-range" 11-34 but they are reputedly not
as nice as the IRD.  I use the Shimano and like them fine but they may
not make you happy if you are used to the top of the line Suntour from
back in the day.  I would think the IRD is worth a try.
> http://sheldonbrown.com/harris/freewheels.html#7
>
> Andy
>
>
> From: MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Ted Phelps
> Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2008 10:01 AM
> To: MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MiyataSpecTour] Re: 7 Speed versus 9 Speed
>
>
> I certainly agree that 7-speed (21-speed) is perfectly adequate to
> tour on. There are, of course, times when just a certain gear to fill
> a gap would come in handy. My problem, unlike Andy's observations, I'm
> noticing that NOS 7-speed freewheels appropriate for touring,
> especially Suntour (probably the best in the day), are getting harder
> to find and are more expensive than I've paid in the past. I've found
> NOS Winner and Winner Pro 12-34 freewheels for $67 - $90, which is a
> lot more than I've ever paid. I like to keep a little stock of NOS
> components around, and it's not as easy to find them as it was, even
> just a couple of years ago. Oh, they can be found, but I think I'm
> noticing that there aren't as many examples out there.
>
> Andy, if you know a good source I'd be indebted if you'd pass it on.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ted
>
> --- In
MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com<mailto:MiyataSpecTour%40yahoogroups.com>,
Andrew Sohn <a.sohn@> wrote:
> >
> > Per my earlier email, the 7 speed spin-on freewheel stuff is totally
> available and one may say it is even new and improved. The 7 speed
> cassette is difficult stuff to get. Check my wordy email for links.
> >
> > Andy Sohn
> > SF CA
> >
> > ________________________________
> > From:
MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com<mailto:MiyataSpecTour%40yahoogroups.com>
>
[mailto:MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com<mailto:MiyataSpecTour%40yahoogroups.com>]
On Behalf Of rfcopple
> > Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:49 PM
> > To:
MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com<mailto:MiyataSpecTour%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Subject: [MiyataSpecTour] Re: Questions re upgrading 1984 Miyata 1000
> >
> > I agree with you that 7-speed is perfectly adequate for a touring
> > bike. I actually have a couple of older (1989) true criterium bikes
> > in 7 speed and they are just fine. The reason I was suggesting 9-
> > speed is because I recently upgraded a couple of TT/Triathlon bikes
> > and found that used 9-speed parts are readily available. I am
> > assuming that 7-speed components, including bar ends, which I like,
> > are much more difficult to find.
> >
> > --- In
>
MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com<mailto:MiyataSpecTour%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:M\
iyataSpecTour%40yahoogroups.com>,
> Mr Kevin Munson
> > <itolduso2001@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Hi There,
> > >
> > > I agree with Tim's comments esp. upgrading to 9-speed
> > > index. The tighter gear ratios are somewhat justified
> > > if you are racing/time trialing etc. where you are
> > > trying to maintain a specific, constant rpm. My road
> > > and TT/tri bikes have the 10-speeds and it's great.
> > > However for touring, I went with all 7-speed freewheel
> > > NOS stuff with downtube shifters. I also find the
> > > downtube shifts just as easy to use as bar ends
> > > without cables all over the place. However, if you
> > > want to use you bike as multipurposes...touring,
> > > racing, training, century rides etc. the tighter
> > > ratios might be justified.
> > >
> > > The Pacela Panaracer touring tires are great esp. the
> > > folding ones as they can be changed without tools.
> > > Are the folding ones still available?
> > >
> > > Kevin
> > > --- frickercycle <tymncycle@> wrote:
> > >
> > > > Hi there! I'll jump in and try to address some of
> > > > this...
> > > >
> > >
> > > I anticipate I would use the bike for road riding and
> > > light (non loaded)touring.
> > > >
> > > > Well, don't rule out loaded touring... that's what
> > > > it's designed for!
> > > >
> > > > > 2) I think I want to go 9-speed. I know I will
> > > > need a new wheel. I have to ask though, what's the
> > > urge to go with 9? I work in a shop, and I have to
> > > say, I don't quite get why folks want to pay twice as
> > > much for a chain and half again as much for a cassette
> > > to get one extra cog. Not to mention that the other
> > > parts are also typically more expensive. But if
> > > that's what you want, sure,you can do it on
> > > the 1000. Mine is set up as an 8 speed, which uses
> > > the same hubs as 9, so there's no problem.
> > > >
> > > If not, down tube stops for 1 1/8" down tubes are
> > > harder to find than they used to be,and typically
> > > don't have barrel adjusters. Not a big problem with
> > > bar end shifters though.
> > > >
> > > > Welcome to the group and keep us informed of your
> > > > progress. Post pics
> > > > when you can.
> > > >
> > > > Tim
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > __________________________________________________________
> > ______________
> > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> > > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> > >
> >
>

I certainly agree that 7-speed (21-speed) is perfectly adequate to
tour on. There are, of course, times when just a certain gear to fill
a gap would come in handy. My problem, unlike Andy's observations, I'm
noticing that NOS 7-speed freewheels appropriate for touring,
especially Suntour (probably the best in the day), are getting harder
to find and are more expensive than I've paid in the past. I've found
NOS Winner and Winner Pro 12-34 freewheels for $67 - $90, which is a
lot more than I've ever paid. I like to keep a little stock of NOS
components around, and it's not as easy to find them as it was, even
just a couple of years ago. Oh, they can be found, but I think I'm
noticing that there aren't as many examples out there.

Andy, if you know a good source I'd be indebted if you'd pass it on.

Thanks,

Ted

--- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, Andrew Sohn <a.sohn@...> wrote:
>
> Per my earlier email, the 7 speed spin-on freewheel stuff is totally
available and one may say it is even new and improved.  The 7 speed
cassette is difficult stuff to get.  Check my wordy email for links.
>
> Andy Sohn
> SF CA
>
> ________________________________
> From: MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of rfcopple
> Sent: Monday, January 28, 2008 10:49 PM
> To: MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [MiyataSpecTour] Re: Questions re upgrading 1984 Miyata 1000
>
> I agree with you that 7-speed is perfectly adequate for a touring
> bike. I actually have a couple of older (1989) true criterium bikes
> in 7 speed and they are just fine. The reason I was suggesting 9-
> speed is because I recently upgraded a couple of TT/Triathlon bikes
> and found that used 9-speed parts are readily available. I am
> assuming that 7-speed components, including bar ends, which I like,
> are much more difficult to find.
>
> --- In
MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com<mailto:MiyataSpecTour%40yahoogroups.com>,
Mr Kevin Munson
> <itolduso2001@> wrote:
> >
> > Hi There,
> >
> > I agree with Tim's comments esp. upgrading to 9-speed
> > index. The tighter gear ratios are somewhat justified
> > if you are racing/time trialing etc. where you are
> > trying to maintain a specific, constant rpm. My road
> > and TT/tri bikes have the 10-speeds and it's great.
> > However for touring, I went with all 7-speed freewheel
> > NOS stuff with downtube shifters. I also find the
> > downtube shifts just as easy to use as bar ends
> > without cables all over the place. However, if you
> > want to use you bike as multipurposes...touring,
> > racing, training, century rides etc. the tighter
> > ratios might be justified.
> >
> > The Pacela Panaracer touring tires are great esp. the
> > folding ones as they can be changed without tools.
> > Are the folding ones still available?
> >
> > Kevin
> > --- frickercycle <tymncycle@> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi there! I'll jump in and try to address some of
> > > this...
> > >
> >
> > I anticipate I would use the bike for road riding and
> > light (non loaded)touring.
> > >
> > > Well, don't rule out loaded touring... that's what
> > > it's designed for!
> > >
> > > > 2) I think I want to go 9-speed. I know I will
> > > need a new wheel. I have to ask though, what's the
> > urge to go with 9? I work in a shop, and I have to
> > say, I don't quite get why folks want to pay twice as
> > much for a chain and half again as much for a cassette
> > to get one extra cog. Not to mention that the other
> > parts are also typically more expensive. But if
> > that's what you want, sure,you can do it on
> > the 1000. Mine is set up as an 8 speed, which uses
> > the same hubs as 9, so there's no problem.
> > >
> > If not, down tube stops for 1 1/8" down tubes are
> > harder to find than they used to be,and typically
> > don't have barrel adjusters. Not a big problem with
> > bar end shifters though.
> > >
> > > Welcome to the group and keep us informed of your
> > > progress. Post pics
> > > when you can.
> > >
> > > Tim
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> __________________________________________________________
> ______________
> > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page.
> > http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
> >
>

I agree with you that 7-speed is perfectly adequate for a touring
bike.  I actually have a couple of older (1989) true criterium bikes
in 7 speed and they are just fine.  The reason I was suggesting 9-
speed is because I recently upgraded a couple of TT/Triathlon bikes
and found that used 9-speed parts are readily available.  I am
assuming that 7-speed components, including bar ends, which I like,
are much more difficult to find.



--- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, Mr Kevin Munson
<itolduso2001@...> wrote:
>
> Hi There,
>
> I agree with Tim's comments esp. upgrading to 9-speed
> index.  The tighter gear ratios are somewhat justified
> if you are racing/time trialing etc. where you are
> trying to maintain a specific, constant rpm.  My road
> and TT/tri bikes have the 10-speeds and it's great.
> However for touring, I went with all 7-speed freewheel
> NOS stuff with downtube shifters.  I also find the
> downtube shifts just as easy to use as bar ends
> without cables all over the place. However, if you
> want to use you bike as multipurposes...touring,
> racing, training, century rides etc. the tighter
> ratios might be justified.
>
> The Pacela Panaracer touring tires are great esp. the
> folding ones as they can be changed without tools.
> Are the folding ones still available?
>
> Kevin
> --- frickercycle <tymncycle@...> wrote:
>
> > Hi there!  I'll jump in and try to address some of
> > this...
> >
>
>  I anticipate I would use the bike for road riding and
> light (non loaded)touring.
> >
> > Well, don't rule out loaded touring... that's what
> > it's designed for!
> >
> > > 2) I think I want to go 9-speed.  I know I will
> > need a new wheel. I have to ask though, what's the
> urge to go with 9?  I work in a shop, and I have to
> say, I don't quite get why folks want to pay twice as
> much for a chain and half again as much for a cassette
> to get one extra cog.  Not to mention that the other
> parts are also typically more expensive.  But if
> that's what you want, sure,you can do it on
> the 1000.  Mine is set up as an 8 speed, which uses
> the same hubs as 9, so there's no problem.
> >
> If not, down tube stops for 1 1/8" down tubes are
> harder to find than they used to be,and typically
> don't have barrel adjusters.  Not a big problem with
> bar end shifters though.
> >
> > Welcome to the group and keep us informed of your
> > progress.  Post pics
> > when you can.
> >
> > Tim
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
______________________________________________________________________
______________
> Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>

Paint job is done!  They are shipping it this week!!!

Two questions:
1. Where does one get a "crud guard" as mentioned below?
2. Open question to all - recommended 700cm wheelset - I am not crossing America
just
yet.  Primarily 38 mile r/t commute and weekend riding.  Would like to be able
to keep up
with my buddies and I am not planning a fully loaded trip to Tahoe just yet.

Thanks in advance.

M


- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, "frickercycle" <tymncycle@...> wrote:
>
> I'll chime in here, as I've dealt with a LOT of bottom brackets, both
> at the shops where I've worked and on my own bikes over 30+ years.
>
> When you remove the original bb, examine the cups and spindle closely
> to see if there's any damage to any of the parts.  If there's no
> damage to any of the parts, just go ahead and repack and use it... but
> resolve to overhaul it periodically.  How often depends on how much
> you ride and in what conditions.  Generally speaking for a bike that
> gets a lot of use, and not abuse, once a year is fine, and you can
> push it to every other year, but your odds of it being damaged
> increase with the longer gaps between service.  But properly
> maintained, it should last for years.  Oh, and if your doesn't have
> the little plastic sleeve or "crud guard" in the shell, put one in
> there.  It just helps cut down on the amount of water and other junk
> that runs into the shell.
>
> On the other hand, if there's any sort of pitting or other damage to
> any of the parts, I'd replace the whole thing with a modern cartridge
> unit.  It is still possible to find replacement cups and spindles for
> older style bbs, but it's frankly a bit of a hassle and the quality of
> currently available new parts isn't that great, in my experience.
> Sure, you can track down some new old stock perhaps, or excellent used
> parts, but it's going to cost you money and time.  As to what sort of
> bb to replace it with, while I agree the Phil Wood is a marvelous
> item, it's really, really expensive... to the tune of about $150 or
> so.  It may well last a lifetime, but I've had the much cheaper
> Shimano units last for many years with no problems.  A typical Shimano
> UN-54 bb sells for around $30, and will last you many years, requiring
> no maintenance.  It IS a good idea, as someone else noted, to pull the
> unit out now and then to check for rust in the frame and such, but the
> bearings will hold up for a long, long time.
>
> Just my 2 cents.
>
> Tim
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, "mattroche" <mattroche@> wrote:
> >
> > I am having the frame painted on a 1982 miyata 1000. In the process,
> I had the bottom
> > bracket and cranks removed. Any compelling arguments for replacing v
> repacking the
> > original BB?
> >
> > I see a lot of folks list fancy BBs in their buildups and I am just
> trying to figure out
> > whether the original is any good.
> >
> > Note, I am keeping the original Cyclone setup (NOS), Superbe
> shifters, Dia-compe cantis,
> > and MKS pedals.   I just like the alloy look and hate black plastic.
> I am going to us a new
> > Tange Levin alloy headset and new handlebars.
> >
> > Appreciate the feedback in advance.
> >
>

--- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, Mr Kevin Munson
<itolduso2001@...> wrote:

>
> The Pacela Panaracer touring tires are great esp. the
> folding ones as they can be changed without tools.
> Are the folding ones still available?

Yep!  And at least two of the major distributors of bike parts, QBP
and J&B, carry a variety of Pasela sizes and styles.  You can get them
in folding and wire bead, and with and without kevlar belts.  Great
tires at a great price.

Tim

Hi There,

I agree with Tim's comments esp. upgrading to 9-speed
index.  The tighter gear ratios are somewhat justified
if you are racing/time trialing etc. where you are
trying to maintain a specific, constant rpm.  My road
and TT/tri bikes have the 10-speeds and it's great.
However for touring, I went with all 7-speed freewheel
NOS stuff with downtube shifters.  I also find the
downtube shifts just as easy to use as bar ends
without cables all over the place. However, if you
want to use you bike as multipurposes...touring,
racing, training, century rides etc. the tighter
ratios might be justified.

The Pacela Panaracer touring tires are great esp. the
folding ones as they can be changed without tools.
Are the folding ones still available?

Kevin
--- frickercycle <tymncycle@...> wrote:

> Hi there!  I'll jump in and try to address some of
> this...
>

  I anticipate I would use the bike for road riding and
light (non loaded)touring.
>
> Well, don't rule out loaded touring... that's what
> it's designed for!
>
> > 2) I think I want to go 9-speed.  I know I will
> need a new wheel. I have to ask though, what's the
urge to go with 9?  I work in a shop, and I have to
say, I don't quite get why folks want to pay twice as
much for a chain and half again as much for a cassette
to get one extra cog.  Not to mention that the other
parts are also typically more expensive.  But if
that's what you want, sure,you can do it on
the 1000.  Mine is set up as an 8 speed, which uses
the same hubs as 9, so there's no problem.
>
If not, down tube stops for 1 1/8" down tubes are
harder to find than they used to be,and typically
don't have barrel adjusters.  Not a big problem with
bar end shifters though.
>
> Welcome to the group and keep us informed of your
> progress.  Post pics
> when you can.
>
> Tim
>
>



      
________________________________________________________________________________\
____
Never miss a thing.  Make Yahoo your home page.
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs

Paul,

   You got it! That's what I get for strumming some Hendrix while typing an e-male out. Yes, the bike I saw was, in fact, a Raleigh. For $700, btw, at American Cyclery.

   I pulled out my original WTB ? "Dirt Drop" ? bars, which are similar, but much more narrow and with a lot less bar down on the drops. I also have a set of Midge bars that seem to have been based on the early WTBs. I'm not much enamored of either handlebar, so when I straddled the Raleigh I immediately felt comfortable on them. How they'll feel after a few hours on them remains to be seen, but for now they look like a competing replacement for the Noodle bars. When I get a pair at my Local Bike Store  ( Support Your Neighborhood! ), I'll report back with my impressions.

As to the Raleigh itself, it was heavier than my Expedition, which is easily over 30 pounds. Disc brakes may be The Latest Thing but damn they add weight.

36- spokes Joe

Hi Tim,

I agree the Sojourn has a good look about it. I prefer an understated
elegance rather than a "pimped out" look.

What I appreciate is your feedback regarding the relative simplicity
of modern disc brakes on bikes. I have to admit, that is not an area
that I have any expertise in. Certainly, in paralleling the idea to
automobiles, discs are much simpler and more efficient than drums, for
sure. What I do know is that brake failure on tour with cantis can
result from cables (straddle or main cable), worn pads, or
adjustments. Carrying a spare straddle and main cable, extra set of
pads, and knowing the necessary adjustments makes repairs simple.
Brake pads don't fail all of a sudden, so it's a good idea to keep an
eye on wear and replace before you need to. But again, I don't know
what might fail on a disc-brake system out on tour in the middle of
Nevada.

I remember just a few years ago Fuji was selling their touring model
with 32 spokes. Now I know that a well-built 32-spoke wheel can be a
good, strong wheel, though still not necessarily the best choice for
self-contained touring. Anyway, literally everyone who toured on these
Fujis had wheel failure. You could hear the "ping, ping" of broken
spokes across the country! These must have been poorly made
machine-built wheels, no doubt, but Fuji now has 36 spoke wheels on
their touring rig. To me, a company that is going to offer a bike that
is marketed as a touring bike that can, as Raliegh states on their web
site, "Traverse America Coast to Coast, follow the classic tours of
Europe, pedal down under along the roads of New Zealand; in fact,
travel the entire world over", it ought to be capable of sustained,
fully-loaded conditions. I'd be happier with 36 spokes on a bike
designed for loaded touring.

You know, I have heard of Joytech hubs. My mistake. Joytech is
probably like "Sanshin" hubs back in the day. They were not well known
by the unknowing public, but they made fine hubs under their own name,
as well as for the better known brands. Actually, it was the rims that
I've never heard of. Have you heard of "Freedom CTX2.3 Trekking Double
Wall" rims? I think these are proprietary to Raliegh. Of course, they
may still be fine rims.

Like you, Tim, I'd like to take a look at one these up close. They do
have a lot going for them.

All the best,

Ted

--- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, "frickercycle" <tymncycle@...>
wrote:
>
> Well, I had to take a look...  and overall I liked what I saw.  I'll
> have to see if I can find the real thing in a shop around here to see
> it in person.  To respond to what Ted says:
>
>
> > I like those bar a lot. I've never seen those before. They're spread a
> > little like a Moustache bar, but with more drop. I'd like to try those
> > out. Google says they're available at several online shops for $60.00
> > - $80.00.
>
> They look kinda like the old DirtDrop bars on my XO-2.  Nice enough,
> but I won't be running out to buy a set.
>
> > Off topic,
>
> Hey, only a little.  Besides, since the bikes we focus on here are no
> longer made, observations on current interpretations of touring bikes
> can be useful in moderation.
>
> >but on the Raliegh Sojourn: It's great that other name
> > brands are starting to build touring-specific rigs again.
>
> Very true.  I've always thought the touring bikes were great all round
> choices for many serious recreational riders.
>
> > That Raliegh
> > has some things going for it--Brooks B-17, Brooks leather bar wrap,
> > Reynolds tubing, decent geometry, bar-end shifters, fenders,
> > braze-ons, but the wheels are suspect with proprietary hubs
>
> I wouldn't call Joytech hubs "proprietary".  They are one of the most
> common Taiwanese hubs out there as original equipment on bikes... have
> been for years.  You just don't read about them.  Not bad hubs, but
> not spectacular.  Raleigh, like most makers, knows that most buyers
> focus on the name on the rear derailleur and maybe the cranks.
>
> > and 32 spokes.
>
> Honestly, with modern spokes and rims, you'd be surprised how sturdy a
> 32 spoke wheel can be.  Yes, for FULLY loaded touring with camping
> gear, etc, on varied surfaces, I'd still rather have 36, but I'd bet
> most folks would do just fine with 32, and besides, the market is more
> about lightly loaded, sagged touring these days, with the possibility
> of the old school approach not ruled out.  I think this bike answers
> that need.
>
> > Disc brakes are cool, but for touring, efficiency with
> > simplicity is better in my book,
>
> I used to have a negative outlook on discs too, but having worked in a
> recumbent shop now for a couple of years, I'm changing my tune.  I
> don't think discs are necessary for most touring bikes, but I don't
> think they are a negative.  They really aren't that complicated, and
> once you've done it a few times, they are at least as simple to keep
> in adjustment as rim brakes.  Well, if they are good brakes, which the
> Avids are.  The BB5 on the Raleigh isn't as nice as the BB7 I prefer,
> but it's still a good brake, and I wouldn't rule out the bike based on
> those.  And discs do stop really well, especially in wet.
>
> > and they missed out with the crankset
> > gearing.
>
> True, but so have most of the modern touring bike makers, who tend to
> put "road" cranksets on their bikes, limiting the middle ring to a 38
> or 39 minimum.  At least the current Sora and Tiagra triples ditched
> the 42/52 outer rings for 39/50... which would be fine if it weren't
> for the fact that all modern cassettes seem to have 11 or 12 tooth
> small cogs, which makes the 50 kinda high.  If you were to swap the
> cassette for a 12 tooth max and the granny to a 24 or 26, this would
> be a workable setup, if not ideal.
>
> > All-in-all, the wheels and brakes would be deal breakers for me.
>
> I did 185 miles on the C&O Canal towpath, fully loaded with camping
> gear, on a set of 32 hole wheels, with CR18 rims...  a factory built
> wheel even, and they held up fine.  So don't focus too hard on spoke
> count.  And like I said, while I'm perfectly happy with cantis on my
> bikes, I wouldn't hesitate to do discs on a tourer these days.
>
> One other comment... I like the aesthetics of the Sojourn...
> understated elegance, something I think we've been missing in the bike
> world.  If I were in the market, I'd definitely take this one for a
spin.
>
> Tim
>

Well, I had to take a look...  and overall I liked what I saw.  I'll
have to see if I can find the real thing in a shop around here to see
it in person.  To respond to what Ted says:


> I like those bar a lot. I've never seen those before. They're spread a
> little like a Moustache bar, but with more drop. I'd like to try those
> out. Google says they're available at several online shops for $60.00
> - $80.00.

They look kinda like the old DirtDrop bars on my XO-2.  Nice enough,
but I won't be running out to buy a set.

> Off topic,

Hey, only a little.  Besides, since the bikes we focus on here are no
longer made, observations on current interpretations of touring bikes
can be useful in moderation.

>but on the Raliegh Sojourn: It's great that other name
> brands are starting to build touring-specific rigs again.

Very true.  I've always thought the touring bikes were great all round
choices for many serious recreational riders.

> That Raliegh
> has some things going for it--Brooks B-17, Brooks leather bar wrap,
> Reynolds tubing, decent geometry, bar-end shifters, fenders,
> braze-ons, but the wheels are suspect with proprietary hubs

I wouldn't call Joytech hubs "proprietary".  They are one of the most
common Taiwanese hubs out there as original equipment on bikes... have
been for years.  You just don't read about them.  Not bad hubs, but
not spectacular.  Raleigh, like most makers, knows that most buyers
focus on the name on the rear derailleur and maybe the cranks.

> and 32 spokes.

Honestly, with modern spokes and rims, you'd be surprised how sturdy a
32 spoke wheel can be.  Yes, for FULLY loaded touring with camping
gear, etc, on varied surfaces, I'd still rather have 36, but I'd bet
most folks would do just fine with 32, and besides, the market is more
about lightly loaded, sagged touring these days, with the possibility
of the old school approach not ruled out.  I think this bike answers
that need.

> Disc brakes are cool, but for touring, efficiency with
> simplicity is better in my book,

I used to have a negative outlook on discs too, but having worked in a
recumbent shop now for a couple of years, I'm changing my tune.  I
don't think discs are necessary for most touring bikes, but I don't
think they are a negative.  They really aren't that complicated, and
once you've done it a few times, they are at least as simple to keep
in adjustment as rim brakes.  Well, if they are good brakes, which the
Avids are.  The BB5 on the Raleigh isn't as nice as the BB7 I prefer,
but it's still a good brake, and I wouldn't rule out the bike based on
those.  And discs do stop really well, especially in wet.

> and they missed out with the crankset
> gearing.

True, but so have most of the modern touring bike makers, who tend to
put "road" cranksets on their bikes, limiting the middle ring to a 38
or 39 minimum.  At least the current Sora and Tiagra triples ditched
the 42/52 outer rings for 39/50... which would be fine if it weren't
for the fact that all modern cassettes seem to have 11 or 12 tooth
small cogs, which makes the 50 kinda high.  If you were to swap the
cassette for a 12 tooth max and the granny to a 24 or 26, this would
be a workable setup, if not ideal.

> All-in-all, the wheels and brakes would be deal breakers for me.

I did 185 miles on the C&O Canal towpath, fully loaded with camping
gear, on a set of 32 hole wheels, with CR18 rims...  a factory built
wheel even, and they held up fine.  So don't focus too hard on spoke
count.  And like I said, while I'm perfectly happy with cantis on my
bikes, I wouldn't hesitate to do discs on a tourer these days.

One other comment... I like the aesthetics of the Sojourn...
understated elegance, something I think we've been missing in the bike
world.  If I were in the market, I'd definitely take this one for a spin.

Tim

----- Original Message -----

From: Ted Phelps

To: MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Sunday, January 27, 2008 8:42 AM

Subject: [MiyataSpecTour] Re: WTB Mountain Road handlebar

I like those bar a lot. I've never seen those before. They're spread a
little like a Moustache bar, but with more drop. I'd like to try those
out. Google says they're available at several online shops for $60.00
- $80.00.

Off topic, but on the Raliegh Sojourn: It's great that other name
brands are starting to build touring-specific rigs again. That Raliegh
has some things going for it--Brooks B-17, Brooks leather bar wrap,
Reynolds tubing, decent geometry, bar-end shifters, fenders,
braze-ons, but the wheels are suspect with proprietary hubs and 32
spokes. Disc brakes are cool, but for touring, efficiency with
simplicity is better in my book, and they missed out with the crankset
gearing. All-in-all, the wheels and brakes would be deal breakers for me.

Meanwhile, I'd like to take a look at those bars.

Regards to all,

Ted

--- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, "neves77" <neves77@...> wrote:
>
> Joe, I looked for a pic to check the bars out but did not find the
Sojourn listed on the Specialized site.
>
> Could it be a Raleigh model? This one popped up on a web search & it
has black WTB Mtn. Drop bars
> & Brooks leather H-Bar tape.
>
> http://agouracycles.com/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=11622
>
> It's not a vintage Specialized or Miyata touring bike but it does
appear Raleigh is trying to compete with the modern Trek 520.
> It shows to be a Reynolds 520 butted chromoly steel frame.
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: pdq911@...
> To: MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:20 PM
> Subject: [MiyataSpecTour] WTB Mountain Road handlebar
>
>
> .
> I just saw a pair of handlebars that I'm itching to try out. They
were on a new Specialized bike model, the 'Sojourn'.
>
> The handlebar is the WTB Mountain Road Bar, wrapped with a deep
brown Brooks leather tape and fat fat fat Tektro brake levers ( w/
contoured levers ) completing the set-up.
>
> The WTB website says that the handlebar is available in a 25.4mm
clamp size, and I want a set-up like this Yesterday. Has anyone out
there tried the bars and these fat Tektros? Lemme know.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Joe
>

I like those bar a lot. I've never seen those before. They're spread a
little like a Moustache bar, but with more drop. I'd like to try those
out. Google says they're available at several online shops for $60.00
- $80.00.

Off topic, but on the Raliegh Sojourn: It's great that other name
brands are starting to build touring-specific rigs again. That Raliegh
has some things going for it--Brooks B-17, Brooks leather bar wrap,
Reynolds tubing, decent geometry, bar-end shifters, fenders,
braze-ons, but the wheels are suspect with proprietary hubs and 32
spokes. Disc brakes are cool, but for touring, efficiency with
simplicity is better in my book, and they missed out with the crankset
gearing. All-in-all, the wheels and brakes would be deal breakers for me.

Meanwhile, I'd like to take a look at those bars.

Regards to all,

Ted

--- In MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com, "neves77" <neves77@...> wrote:
>
> Joe, I looked for a pic to check the bars out but did not find the
Sojourn listed on the Specialized site.
>
> Could it be a Raleigh model? This one popped up on a web search & it
has  black WTB Mtn. Drop bars
> & Brooks leather H-Bar tape.
>
> http://agouracycles.com/itemdetails.cfm?catalogId=39&id=11622
>
> It's not a vintage Specialized or Miyata touring bike but it does
appear Raleigh is trying to compete with the modern Trek 520.
> It shows to be a Reynolds 520 butted chromoly steel frame.
>
> Regards,
>
> Paul
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: pdq911@...
>   To: MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com
>   Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:20 PM
>   Subject: [MiyataSpecTour] WTB Mountain Road handlebar
>
>
>   .
>   I just saw a pair of handlebars that I'm itching to try out. They
were on a new Specialized bike model, the 'Sojourn'.
>
>   The handlebar is the WTB Mountain Road Bar, wrapped with a deep
brown Brooks leather tape and fat fat fat Tektro brake levers ( w/
contoured levers ) completing the set-up.
>
>   The WTB website says that the handlebar is available in a 25.4mm
clamp size, and I want a set-up like this Yesterday. Has anyone out
there tried the bars and these fat Tektros? Lemme know.
>
>   Thanks.
>
>   Joe
>

----- Original Message -----

From: pdq911@...

To: MiyataSpecTour@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2008 10:20 PM

Subject: [MiyataSpecTour] WTB Mountain Road handlebar

.

I just saw a pair of handlebars that I'm itching to try out. They were on a new Specialized bike model, the 'Sojourn'.

The handlebar is the WTB Mountain Road Bar, wrapped with a deep brown Brooks leather tape and fat fat fat Tektro brake levers ( w/ contoured levers ) completing the set-up.

The WTB website says that the handlebar is available in a 25.4mm clamp size, and I want a set-up like this Yesterday. Has anyone out there tried the bars and these fat Tektros? Lemme know.

Thanks.

Joe