I wouldn't go quite that far myself, TRB. I do think that the link
helps to lift the barrel to slide up on the cross shaft, but it
should not be what determines the height in lockup. Other guns
that use the dropping barrel without the link have a better glide
path but perhaps a shorter barrel excursion before dropping.
A KelTec P-11, for instance retracts about 1/8" before dropping.

A properly fitted 1911 barrel can have up to 1/4" excursion before
dropping. This is a little appreciated part of the 1911 design.
If the barrel moves before the bullet exits grouping suffers.

This gets back to another reason for bad grouping, a weak recoil spring
that allows recoil too early and breech opening while there are hot gases
still in the chamber. Ideally, all pressure gone and perhaps even a
slight vacuum is good for both better grouping and unstained cases.

I regret that I never counted the 1911s I have "Accurized" into tight
groups with nothing more than a stronger recoil spring, but surely it
must be well into the hundreds.<G> Regards, Jack F
=============================
Are only the Police entitled to defend themselves with a handgun?
<http://www.gunsmith.fuselier.com> East Texas


Monday, September 21, 2009, 5:32:04 PM, you wrote:

T> What John just said is exactly what I meant when I said almost all mass
produced pistols have wrong lower lug geometry. And Jack F even gave the link
too much credit; it's sole purpose is to pull
T> the barrel down for unlocking. Relocking in a custom fit gun is a sole
function of the lower lugs ramping up and over the slide stop shaft. In a barrel
that has been fitted so, a proper length
T> link is easily chosen by simply matching it to the lower lugs; too long and
the upper lugs will bind, too short and the lower lugs will bind. Many gunsmiths
still run the links too long, which is
T> one of the reasons you run into customs that have to have their muzzles
slapped on a table to get them to unlock when trying to hand cycle them. The
other reason being lower lugs that weren't
T> radiused. Then you get the lazy pistolsmith telling you to LOOK HOW TIGHT IT
IS and then you either get it fixed by someone who actually knows what they're
doing or shoot 2500 rounds through it
T> and hope the lugs seat before the slide stop breaks.
T> MarSOC W: I'm not trying to flame you, if it works on your gun, great, I just
wanted to make it clear that link replacement shouldn't be regarded as a
fix-all. And most of this post is just
T> random rambling. I do that a lot in my old age, especially when I'm in a good
mood. Which I am. I just put a fully race prepped YZF-R6 track bike in my
garage and I feel great B-D

T> -TRB

T> ----- Original Message -----
T> From: John Caradimas
T> To: M-1911@yahoogroups.com
T> Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:29 PM
T> Subject: Re: [M-1911] Re: Problems with a Colt Gold Cup


T> Well, it all depends on the pistol. Most mass produced pistols use the
T> link to lock the barrel. To check it out, with the slide in battery
T> (i.e. forward) press down on the part of the barrel which shows inside
T> the ejection port. If it moves down at all, then your barrel locks by
T> the link. Most USGI pistols were set up that way.

T> Custom pistols though, or at least those build with some attention, do
T> indeed lock the barrel by the barrel feet and the slide stop shaft, as
T> Jack said. That's the correct way for the barrel to lock.

T> -----------------
T> John Caradimas
T> sv1cec@...

T> On Sep 21, 2009, at 20:45 , Jack F wrote:

T> >
T> > This is an interesting letter, and all I can say about it is that
T> > it shows how pervasive is the mistaken theory that the link is what
T> > holds up the barrel while in battery. In battery the barrel should
T> > rest on the feet, evenly supported by the latch shaft. The link is
T> > only supposed to do two things. First, it lifts the barrel so that
T> > it can slide up on the latch shaft in battery. Second, it pulls the
T> > barrel down against the frame when the breech is open to minimize
T> > loading failures.
T> >
T> > Various Link lengths are available, but they are to adjust the pull
T> > down when loading, not to adjust the height of the barrel in battery.
T> > If the latter was the case, why should the barrel feet be fitted at
T> > all? Nothing but the link would matter, and it would not even need
T> > feet. Surely that should give you some pause for thought.
T> >
T> > While the 1911 is such a great design it may very well work the way
T> > you describe, it gives away the best part of a great design which
T> > controls the depth of insertion into the top locking lugs and also
T> > furnishes a stable three point support of the barrel for the best
T> > accuracy and minimum rotation of the barrel by bullet torque.
T> > Regards, Jack F
T> > =============================
T> > Are only the Police entitled to defend themselves with a handgun?
T> > <http://www.gunsmith.fuselier.com> East Texas
T> >
T> >
T> > Monday, September 21, 2009, 11:51:10 AM, you wrote:
T> >
T> > a> TRB
T> > a> If I may, Ill explain myself little more in depth. Having this
T> > piece of steel for 10 plus years, I have ran approx. 30,000+ rounds
T> > through her. And shes been in every climate and place where ever
T> > a> I take my gun. Except Iraq and Afgan of course. Now about the
T> > link, I took my Gold Cup to my well trusted gunsmith and asked for a
T> > tune up since the work that was last done was just after the
T> > a> purchase about 14 years ago. I told him about the mods I
T> > performed under watchful experienced eyes and he rogered up with
T> > theres no tue up nessesary.
T> > a> Now, he pointed out about the slight looseness at the breach. We
T> > broke her down and he knew exactly what was wrong. We measured the
T> > link and you can tell I have abused this soul saver to much. The
T> > a> measurements came started with the original link from Colt, .281,
T> > the edges were somewhat round and smooth. We reviewed shop books,
T> > found the sizes, double checke our info, put her back together,
T> > a> did a firing pin/ primer indent test and were sitting center.
T> > a> A slight bounce like this "could", "will", or "will not" add an
T> > inch or 2 to your group. So taking that chance the option was
T> > offered to only go to a #4 link, .283 and I took it. After the
T> > a> install ran some rubbing test and she fit snug. Ran another
T> > firing pin/ primer tent test and the impact was .021 inches off
T> > center. If curious, I just competed in a local man on man steel shoot
T> > a> here in Las Vegas, running well over 200+ rounds and not a single
T> > problem.
T> >
T> > a> Im sorry to bore everyone with my rambling, but I though I should
T> > lay out more of the details. And thank you for putting up with me..
T> >
T> > a> Be safe,
T> > a> MarSOC W
T> >
T> > a> --- In M-1911@yahoogroups.com, "TRB" <TRB@...> wrote:
T> >>>
T> >>> I can't agree with your second suggestion. Putting a longer link
T> >>> in a 1911 without refitting the barrel, can, if the link ends up
T> >>> too long, cause any or all of the following:
T> >>> 1: Link failure
T> >>> 2: Slide stop failure
T> >>> 3: Lower barrel locking lug failure
T> >>> 4: Impaction of the upper lugs and
T> >>> 5: Subsequent peening of the upper barrel locking lugs and/or
T> >>> their matching slots in the slide.
T> >>>
T> >>> Manufacturing tolerances dictate that most all factory assembled
T> >>> 1911s have completely wrong lower lug geometry, and trying to
T> >>> crutch that by fiddling with the link is only going to compromise
T> >>> the
T> >>> reliability and longevity of the weapon.
T> >>>
T> >>> -TRB
T> >>>
T> >>> ----- Original Message -----
T> >>> From: andreww
T> >>> To: M-1911@yahoogroups.com
T> >>> Sent: Sunday, September 20, 2009 9:45 PM
T> >>> Subject: [M-1911] Re: Problems with a Colt Gold Cup
T> >>>
T> >>>
T> >>> Tim
T> >>> I just joined here and noticed gold cup problem. No I did not
T> >>> read all of the replys and I am a Gold Cup Owner of 14 years. Few
T> >>> things I do know that will help improve function as well as
T> >>> accuracy, is get a (1) full cylender barrel bushing, (2) with the
T> >>> slide forward in a forward locked position press down on the
T> >>> throat (chamber area) of the barrel. If you get any play and I mean
T> >>> any, it would be suggested that you get a 1 size bigger then your
T> >>> current barrel link.
T> >>>
T> >>> The reason I know this is because I remember my new 1911 out of
T> >>> the box shoot a horrorable 7 inch group at 25 yds. I prformed the
T> >>> mentioned above, tightened the slide to the frame and did a nice
T> >>> trigger job while I was at it and tightene my group down to 3-4
T> >>> inches.
T> >>>
T> >>> Hope this all helps and if youve done this, cool... be safe.
T> >>>
T> >>> MarSOC Wick
T> >>>
T> >>> --- In M-1911@yahoogroups.com, "Tim Rahto" <tim@> wrote:
T> >>>>
T> >>>> I've got a Colt Gold Cup with a bit of a problem. It seems as
T> >>>> though it
T> >>>> starts to lose its point of impact after about 50 - 75 rounds or
T> >>>> so, and
T> >>>> gradually starts to shoot more to the left. Groups that start out
T> >>>> dead on
T> >>>> eventually migrate out to the edge of the 8 ring at 25 feet. A
T> >>>> routine field
T> >>>> stripping doesn't show anything out of the ordinary. After it is
T> >>>> cleaned, it
T> >>>> will again shoot dead on for a while and then begin to creep out
T> >>>> to the
T> >>>> left. The gun was bought new in 2005, and probably has about 1000
T> >>>> rounds
T> >>>> though it. It should be a lot more, but I don't enjoy shooting
T> >>>> guns that
T> >>>> frustrate the hell out of me like this one does.
T> >>>>
T> >>>> Any ideas?
T> >>>>
T> >>>> -Tim
T> >
T> >
T> >
T> > ------------------------------------
T> >
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T> >
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T> > http://www.m1911.org
T> >
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T> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]