-From what I have read, Seisan is actually much older. Hiagoanna
brought it back from his studies in China. That would at least put
it at just after or before the turn of the 20th century.
Hangetsu , I am not sure that O sensei Funakoshi taught this in his
original curriculum. From what I have been told there was kata added
later. Perhaps even from his influence and freindship with Mabuni
Kenwa. I am not sure. The story varies depending who you talk to.
Much of karate history is incomplete and sometimes peoples memory is
not so good. I just keep training and trying to be the best that I
can.





-- In KOJF@yahoogroups.com, "Malcolm" <malcolm.bates@m...> wrote:
> Hi Tim
> Yep, as far as I understand you have it right. :) Hangetsu as it
stands
> today with its off stance was only created around the 1940's I
believe. The
> stance appears to be a cross between Zenkutsu dachi and Sanchin
dachi and
> Fudo dachi. I wonder whether this was because Fudo dachi, although
appearing
> significantly in master Funakoshi's work is not as common in
Shotokan
> teaching these days.. at least not in the clubs around here.
>
> The timing would seem about right as that was when mawashi geri
and some
> other sports orientated techniques were also introduced.
>
> Any thoughts on this?
> Regards
>
> Malcolm
>
> ps. I am a Shotokan student originally but tend to follow a
broader syllabus
> these days.
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: KOJF@yahoogroups.com [mailto:KOJF@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
Of Tim
> Sent: 19 May 2005 04:45
> To: KOJF@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [KOJF] Re: Interesting Kata Information
>
>
> -That is very good. It is good for students to know the history of
> kata. One note. Isn't the old name for Hangetsu,Seisan? That is if
> memory serves me right. Great job.
>
>
>
>
> -- In KOJF@yahoogroups.com, "Ramsey, William J SSG-- III Corps
CSES"
> <william.ramsey1@u...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > Saw this stuff and thought it was interesting. Thought that the
> Group might
> > like to read it. It comes from the website of KARATE UNION OF
> AUSTRALIA.
> > They have a pretty interesting Website and it seems as it is
very
> tasteful.
> > The URL is http://www.ozwebart.com.au/kua/index.html
> > <http://www.ozwebart.com.au/kua/index.html>
> >
> >
> >
> > "The ultimate aim of Karate lies not in victory or defeat, but
in
> the
> > perfection of the character of its participants." - Gichin
> Funakoshi
> >
> > Heian
> >
> > The old name for the Haian Kata was Pinan. These Kata were
> developed by
> > Yatasune Itosu as intermediate Kata to the much longer main Kata
of
> > Shorin-Ryu. He did not make them up however, they were based on
> much older
> > training forms called Channan, which had their origin in China.
> >
> > Master Funakoshi considered Pinan Shodan too difficult for an
> introductory
> > Kata so he changed Pinan Nidan to Heian Shodan and Pinan Shodan
to
> Heian
> > Nidan.
> >
> > For beginners, a somewhat simplified version of Heian Shodan was
> introduced,
> > which is called Taikyoku Shodan. This is most often used for 9th
> Kyu
> > gradings as a "stepping-stone" to Heian Shodan.
> >
> > Tekki
> >
> > The Okinawan name for these was Naihanchi and they are directly
> taken from
> > the long form called Hua-Chuan which is one, one of the main
> training forms
> > of Tiger Style Northern Shaolin Wu-Shu. It was on Okinawa that
the
> Kata was
> > split into three separate sections that we now call Tekki
Shodan,
> Nidan and
> > Sandan.
> >
> > The name means "Iron Horse". The Kiba-dachi stance used
> exclusively in these
> > Kata is the main training stance of Northern Shaolin Tiger Style
> of Wu-Shu.
> >
> > The Tekki Kata we know and practise today are as follows....
> >
> > Bassai
> >
> > Again these Kata are from Northern Shaolin sources but from
which
> sub-style
> > we are not sure. They do however, have strong Tiger Style
> characteristics.
> >
> > The name used on Okinawa was "Passai" and it translates
> as "Capture the
> > Fortress".
> >
> > We are taught that Bassai-Dai symbolizes the capture of the
> fortress and
> > Bassai-Sho symbolizes the fight to get out again.
> >
> > Kanku
> >
> > The Kanku Kata were taught to the Okinawans by Master Kwang
Shang
> Fu -
> > Military Attaché to Okinawa in 1724. The Okinawan way of saying
> his name is
> > Kushanku and this was the Okinawan name for these Kata.
> >
> > Master Funakoshi changed the name to Kanku which means "to view
> the sky".
> >
> > Jion
> >
> > This is the classic "mainstream" Shaolin Kata, complete with
> the "Ming"
> > salute at the beginning. Shaolin was also named Jion-Ji by the
> Japanese but
> > the literal translation of the Kanji is "to love the sound" (of
> Shaolin).
> >
> > Ji-In <http://www.ozwebart.com.au/kua/kata.htm>
> >
> > Another Shaolin Classic and all of the above relating to Jion
> apply here
> > too. The name translates to "love of truth
> >
> > Chinte
> >
> > This Kata is one of the older ones and it's salute at the
> beginning betrays
> > its Wutang origin. The name translates to "to restore calm"
or "to
> establish
> > peace".
> >
> > The final moves of this Kata are supposed to represent the ocean
> waves
> > disappearing into the dry sand on the beach just as your enemies
> would
> > vanish before you if you master these techniques.
> >
> > Jutte (Jitte) <http://www.ozwebart.com.au/kua/kata.htm>
> >
> > Another Shaolin classic. The name means "ten hands". If you
master
> this
> > Kata, your enemies will feel as though you had ten hands
> >
> > Empi
> >
> > A classic white crane style Kata brought to Okinawa in 1644 by
> Military
> > Attaché Master Wang-Shu. The Kata was names after him hence its
> Okinawan
> > name of "Wanshu". This translates to "excellent or incredible
> arms" and
> > perhaps this explains the lovely hand techniques this Kata
> contains.
> >
> > It also tells us that Master Wang-Shu must have been very good
> with his
> > hands.
> >
> > Hangetsu
> >
> > This is a Wutang Kata that came to us through Master Itosu's
> training in
> > Na-Ha-te from Master Higaonna. It is named after the third
Chinese
> Zen
> > Patriarch but the name Hangetsu, given to it by Master
Funakoshi,
> means
> > "half moon" - a description of the stance.
> >
> > Sochin <http://www.ozwebart.com.au/kua/kata.htm>
> >
> > This is a Northern Shaolin Dragon Style originally taught on
> Okinawa by
> > Master Aragaki. This Kata is supposed to demonstrate the power
> of "Ki" and
> > the name means "to overcome using power" (of Ki).
> >
> > Unsu
> >
> > Another Dragon Style Kata from Aragaki. Where he trained is not
> known but
> > the strong Chinese influences in this Kata suggest it was
> certainly in
> > Mainland China.
> >
> > The name used on Okinawa is "Unshou" and it means "cloud
defence" -
> even if
> > your enemies surround you like a cloud, you will surely defeat
> them if you
> > master Unsu.
> >
> > Nijushiho <http://www.ozwebart.com.au/kua/kata.htm>
> >
> > Another of Aragaki's Kata but this one is thought to have its
> origins in one
> > of the Dragon sub-styles.
> >
> > The name translates to "the twenty four steps". The form they
are
> taken from
> > is called "Kaisan". The old name was "Neseishi".
> >
> > Gojushiho
> >
> > These Kata are a departure from the norm as they have their
origin
> in a
> > Southern Shaolin Style called "Phonexi Eye". The form they are
> taken from is
> > called "Kaisan". The name on Okinawa was "Useishi" but this was
> changed to
> > Gojushiho - "the fifty four steps".
> >
> > Meikyo <http://www.ozwebart.com.au/kua/kata.htm>
> >
> > This is a very mysterious Kata. It seems that the Japanese knew
it
> long
> > before Master Funakoshi introduced Okinawan Karate into Japan.
> There is even
> > a Japanese legend concerning Ameratsu, the Sun Goddess.
> >
> > It appears Ameratsu lost her mirror and could not admire herself
> and so went
> > into a sulk. The world therefore, was in darkness. At last the
> other Gods
> > decided something must be done so they sent a great warrior to
> perform a
> > "war dance" outside her cave.
> >
> > Hearing the noise, Ameratsu became curious and came out of the
> cave. The
> > "war dance" was reputed to be Meikyo.
> >
> > Meikyo translates to "mirror of the soul". The old name for
Meikyo
> was Rohai
> > and this is now coming back into use.
> >
> >
> >
> > Wankan <http://www.ozwebart.com.au/kua/kata.htm>
> >
> > Shaolin based Kata of unknown origin. The old name was Wanduan
and
> the name
> > translates to "sword arm". Using these techniques, your enemies
> will think
> > your arm is a sword.
> >
> >
> >
> > Gankaku
> >
> > Yet another White Crane form, this time taught by Master Ching-
To,
> attaché
> > to Okinawa from the Ming court in 1732, and so the Okinawans
named
> it in his
> > honor "Chinto".
> >
> > Master Funakoshi later renamed it Gankaku (the crane on a rock).
> >
> >
> >
> > Blessings,
> >
> > Bill Ramsey
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > SSG William J. Ramsey
> >
> > III Corps Staff Engineer Section /
> >
> > Det 1, 420th Engineer Brigade
> >
> > Systems Administrator (P)
> >
> > Information Management Officer (P)
> >
> > Information Assurance Security Officer (ALT)
> >
> > Phone: (254) 287-4590
> >
> > Fax: (254) 287-9640
> >
> > E-Mail: <mailto:william.ramsey1@u...> william.ramsey1@u...
>
>
>
>
>
>
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