Hi, all.



The latest order has hit yet another snag and now that it has

been sorted out, I have substantial information to share.



FORKS



All of the forks were shipped on 7/11 except for the 'E' and 'F' forks.

The geniuses at the fork shop made those forks w/ 366mm blades

instead of 384mm blades.  The fork shop says that they will remake

them correctly and they are expect here in roughly 45 days.



FRAMES



These frames shipped on 7/11:



59cm - all three wheel sizes: 26", 650B and 700C

61.6cm - 650B (the only wheel size)



The 53.6 and 56.3cm frames were all rejected and they are being

rebuilt and will be ready to ship when the rebuilt forks are shipped.



In summary, the smaller sizes are delayed and the 700Cs are

unship-able because the forks are not yet available.



This is our seventh frame/fork order and it has been nightmare.

It was delayed beyond all reason and these are the first frames

ever to be rejected.  Those who have P/R frames from the first

batch will tell you that the workmanship is top notch.  The only

explanation that I got from the frame shop is that they out-sourced

the brazing to a third party that did not do a good job.



I apologize for the delay.



These frame and forks will be quite nice.  We've used lighter

tubes, reduced frame weight, fixed the dropouts and brake

hangers, added a second pump peg and a third bottle braze-on

and switched to aluminum fenders.  I for one am pretty excited

to see the results.



I'm not even going to talk about the future.  I think I'll just wait

for stuff to arrive before I announce it.  It's just too painful to

announce delay after delay.



Thanks for your continued support,



Matthew



ps.  Here's the fork list again, for those who are interested:



9/8" dia, 400mm long, threadless steerer, 1.3mm walls (not threadable)



A: offset: 58mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 268mm (584/590) P/R

B: offset: 68mm, brake->axle 366mm. pivot 268mm (584/590  P/R

C: offset: 55mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 256mm (559) 26" P/R

D: offset: 65mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 256mm (559) 26" P/R

E: offset: 70mm, brake->axle 384mm, pivot 287mm (622) 700C P/R, G, D, F

F: offset: 61mm, brake->axle 384mm, pivot 287mm (622) 700C P/R, G, D, F



8/8" dia, 400mm long, threadless steerer, 1.6mm walls (threadable)



G: offset: 58mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 287mm (622) P

H: offset: 68mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 268mm (584/590) Konversion

Hi Matthew,



Thanks for that update!



-Jim G

are the frames/forks painted, and if so, what colour? thanks!



patrick, looking forward to an A



--- In KOG@yahoogroups.com, "Kogswell Cycles" <kogswellcycles@...> wrote:

>

> Hi, all.

>

> The latest order has hit yet another snag and now that it has

> been sorted out, I have substantial information to share.

>

> FORKS

>

> All of the forks were shipped on 7/11 except for the 'E' and 'F' forks.

> The geniuses at the fork shop made those forks w/ 366mm blades

> instead of 384mm blades.  The fork shop says that they will remake

> them correctly and they are expect here in roughly 45 days.

>

> FRAMES

>

> These frames shipped on 7/11:

>

> 59cm - all three wheel sizes: 26", 650B and 700C

> 61.6cm - 650B (the only wheel size)

>

> The 53.6 and 56.3cm frames were all rejected and they are being

> rebuilt and will be ready to ship when the rebuilt forks are shipped.

>

> In summary, the smaller sizes are delayed and the 700Cs are

> unship-able because the forks are not yet available.

>

> This is our seventh frame/fork order and it has been nightmare.

> It was delayed beyond all reason and these are the first frames

> ever to be rejected.  Those who have P/R frames from the first

> batch will tell you that the workmanship is top notch.  The only

> explanation that I got from the frame shop is that they out-sourced

> the brazing to a third party that did not do a good job.

>

> I apologize for the delay.

>

> These frame and forks will be quite nice.  We've used lighter

> tubes, reduced frame weight, fixed the dropouts and brake

> hangers, added a second pump peg and a third bottle braze-on

> and switched to aluminum fenders.  I for one am pretty excited

> to see the results.

>

> I'm not even going to talk about the future.  I think I'll just wait

> for stuff to arrive before I announce it.  It's just too painful to

> announce delay after delay.

>

> Thanks for your continued support,

>

> Matthew

>

> ps.  Here's the fork list again, for those who are interested:

>

> 9/8" dia, 400mm long, threadless steerer, 1.3mm walls (not threadable)

>

> A: offset: 58mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 268mm (584/590) P/R

> B: offset: 68mm, brake->axle 366mm. pivot 268mm (584/590  P/R

> C: offset: 55mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 256mm (559) 26" P/R

> D: offset: 65mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 256mm (559) 26" P/R

> E: offset: 70mm, brake->axle 384mm, pivot 287mm (622) 700C P/R, G, D, F

> F: offset: 61mm, brake->axle 384mm, pivot 287mm (622) 700C P/R, G, D, F

>

> 8/8" dia, 400mm long, threadless steerer, 1.6mm walls (threadable)

>

> G: offset: 58mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 287mm (622) P

> H: offset: 68mm, brake->axle 366mm, pivot 268mm (584/590) Konversion

>

On 7/16/07, Patrick Barber <patrick@...> wrote:



> are the frames/forks painted, and if so, what colour? thanks!



Most are.



Black.



Matthew

>

> > are the frames/forks painted, and if so, what colour? thanks!

>

> Most are.

>

> Black.

>





KOOL!

Thanks, Matthew. I have been looking forward to this shipment to set

up a 590 as an everyday bike that I could also do a loaded tour with

about once a year or so. Based on what you currently have in hand in

frames and forks, can you recommend a setup, or am I best to wait?



BC



On Jul 16, 2007, at 1:06 PM, Kogswell Cycles wrote:



> Hi, all.

>

> The latest order has hit yet another snag and now that it has

> been sorted out, I have substantial information to share.

>

>

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007, Brian Crawford wrote:

> Thanks, Matthew. I have been looking forward to this shipment to set

> up a 590 as an everyday bike that I could also do a loaded tour with

> about once a year or so. Based on what you currently have in hand in

> frames and forks, can you recommend a setup, or am I best to wait?



It sounds like the 584mm (650B) and 559mm (26" mountain bike size)

frames and forks are available.  Both of these would be good platforms

for what you are looking for.  I use my 59cm P/R prototype as a every

day and touring bike too.



In the current market I'd go with 584mm over 559mm unless you plan on

longer tours.  559mm tires are much easier to get, but 584mm tires

tend to be nicer than average 559mm tires.



alex

On Jul 16, 2007, at 6:28 PM, alex wetmore wrote:



>  I use my 59cm P/R prototype as a every

> day and touring bike too.



Good to know. I admit I've worked myself up into a fair bit of

confusion over the fork selection. What fork are you running on yours

and why?



>

> In the current market I'd go with 584mm over 559mm unless you plan on

> longer tours.  559mm tires are much easier to get, but 584mm tires

> tend to be nicer than average 559mm tires.



I'm interested in 584.  I've noticed the same thing about the tires

and it sure seems like there will be more good ones coming as time

goes on.



Thanks, Alex.



Brian

On Mon, 16 Jul 2007, Brian Crawford wrote:

> On Jul 16, 2007, at 6:28 PM, alex wetmore wrote:

>>  I use my 59cm P/R prototype as a every

>> day and touring bike too.

>

> Good to know. I admit I've worked myself up into a fair bit of

> confusion over the fork selection. What fork are you running on yours

> and why?



40mm trail.  I have my bike setup with a porteur rack and handlebar

bag rack and put lowriders on for touring.  The 40mm fork handles

really nicely with higher (touring, porteur) type loads and works well

with moderate loads too.



You do need to front load the P/R when touring with it.  It doesn't

handle well with a heavy rear load and very light front load.  As

long as you use lowriders you are fine.



alex

alex wetmore wrote:



> You do need to front load the P/R when touring with it.  It doesn't

> handle well with a heavy rear load and very light front load.  As

> long as you use lowriders you are fine.



Let me add: this is no hardship, as the P/R with a front load and very

light rear load handles very well indeed -- considerably nicer than a

rear-loaded touring bike.  Lifting a loaded front end over curbs and

such does require a bit of learning, though.



--

Steve Palincsar

palincss@...

Alexandria, VA, USA

--- In KOG@yahoogroups.com, alex wetmore <alex@...> wrote:

>

>

> In the current market I'd go with 584mm over 559mm unless you plan on

> longer tours.  559mm tires are much easier to get, but 584mm tires

> tend to be nicer than average 559mm tires.

>

> alex



The offerings in 584 are slowly but steadily increasing in number,

variety and quality, but at the moment the only tire that has a lower

rolling resistance, light weight and supple casing is the Grand Bois

and it is neither cheap nor easily available. The Riv tires tested

slow, there's nothing special about a CdlV that you can't find in any

number of 559 tires (in fact 559 pasela might be based on the same

casing, no?) so I'm not really sure I agree with the above.



There's an incredible amount of choice in 559 tire land in

widths,weights, tread patterns, casings, puncture protection etc. All

of them easily available and often very cheap. Bicycle quarterly so far

hasn't tested any of them. Who knows what smooth rolling and

lightweight 559 is lurking right under our noses. Who wants to make a

list of all the slick or minimal tread road and touring type tires

available in 559. There are quite a few!



I say choose 559 because there's a huge choice and variety of cheaper

tires (and rims) and go for 584 if you want your larger frame to look

more proportionate (personally I don't worry about those kinds of

things) and because the size is really catching on and looks like it's

here to stay.



How about some nominations for favorite 559 tires. My new favorite is

the Panaracer Extreme Valiant Evo 2 559 x 32mm. Supple casing with high

thread count, kevlar bead, bald as a baby's bare butt and only 250g. I

think I even like them better than the old Avocet slicks. Too bad it's

not availabe in 38 mm. Maybe someone would like to talk to Panaracer.

While we're at it, how about a 559 offering from Grand Bois...



Kurt

--- In KOG@yahoogroups.com, Brian Crawford <brian@...> wrote:

>

> Thanks, Matthew. I have been looking forward to this shipment to set

> up a 590 as an everyday bike that I could also do a loaded tour with

> about once a year or so. Based on what you currently have in hand in

> frames and forks, can you recommend a setup, or am I best to wait?

>

> BC



I'm looking to do the same thing, but with a 700C P/R frame.  I want a

bike with extravagant tire clearance so I can run my favorite

mixed-terrain/allroads tire (WTB All Terrainasarus) in 700x40 during

the summer/dry season, then reconfigure the bike with 700x32-35 road

tires, fenders, and probably a front rack+bag in the fall/winter/rainy

season for brevets.  A frame that also has rack, fender, and all the

other brazeons galore.  And a frame that I can use for S24O trips a

couple times a year too.  I want the 40mm trail fork for this bike,

that seems like the best all-round choice.



-Jim G

Kogswell Cycles wrote:

> In summary, the smaller sizes are delayed and the 700Cs are

> unship-able because the forks are not yet available.



Thanks for the update.



Is your intention to not take any orders for the incomplete

frame sets until you have the full stock in your presence?



--

Brian Loudon

hoot@...

--- In KOG@yahoogroups.com, "Kogswell Cycles" <kogswellcycles@...>

wrote:

<snip>

>

> I'm not even going to talk about the future.  I think I'll just wait

> for stuff to arrive before I announce it.  It's just too painful to

> announce delay after delay.

>

That would be a shame, indeed.  A lot of the fun of these things is

the anticipation.  Shipping delays of made-to-order items is normal

course of business in my experience.  Multiple contingent process and

purchasing steps, each with its own probablity curve tends to broaden

the delivery date probablity curve.  Most companies are only 100% on

time when compared to their last promise.



Back in the olden days, late deliveries of kidney machines used to

get everyone's guts in a knot, because there were serious

consequences.



Now it seems like the worst it gets is, "The advertising is bought,

but we don't have product in the stores."  Okay, it's money, but it

isn't life and death.



You can only do _your_ best.  You can't do your suppliers' best.

Lower expectations and a sense of (ironic)humor should reduce

disappointments.  Besides, the hassles will all be forgotten when we

see the new frames and builds.



Patiently yours,



Mike Jenkins

>

> These frames shipped on 7/11:

>

> 59cm - all three wheel sizes: 26", 650B and 700C

> 61.6cm - 650B (the only wheel size)

>



Take any pictures yet?



-John

On 7/24/07, John McMurry <johnjmcmurry@...> wrote:



> Take any pictures yet?



Here's a photo of the fabled 700C x 59cm:



     http://kogswell.com/images/photo700Cpr.jpg



Code name: HOTDISH



Matthew

--- In KOG@yahoogroups.com, "Kogswell Cycles" <kogswellcycles@...> wrote:



> Here's a photo of the fabled 700C x 59cm:

>

>     http://kogswell.com/images/photo700Cpr.jpg

>

> Code name: HOTDISH



Is this for full-housing rear brake or are there housing stops?



Dang.   What's the retail on these?

Maybe I can sell off a frame in my basement or two.

--- In KOG@yahoogroups.com, "Kogswell Cycles" <kogswellcycles@...> wrote:

>

> On 7/24/07, John McMurry <johnjmcmurry@...> wrote:

>

> > Take any pictures yet?

>

> Here's a photo of the fabled 700C x 59cm:

>

>     http://kogswell.com/images/photo700Cpr.jpg

>

> Code name: HOTDISH

>

> Matthew

>



WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH!



Thank you thank you.  I can hardly wait!



700x40.  Low Trail.  Off road.



Paypal @ the ready, just let me know when/where!



-Jim G



ps. is "HOTDISH" a pun on Salsa's Casserole?  ;)

Jim Gourgoutis wrote:



>

> ps. is "HOTDISH" a pun on Salsa's Casserole?  ;)

>



Ya, you betcha.



--

Steve Palincsar

palincss@...

Alexandria, VA, USA

That makes me want to paint in imaginary lug lines. Dark brown or

grey over black. Just enough contrast to mess with your eyes.



I don't think my hand's good enough. But it made me google for

closeups of Rene Herse lugs.



On Jul 24, 2007, at 12:58 PM, Kogswell Cycles wrote:



> On 7/24/07, John McMurry <johnjmcmurry@...> wrote:

>

>> Take any pictures yet?

>

> Here's a photo of the fabled 700C x 59cm:

>

>     http://kogswell.com/images/photo700Cpr.jpg

>

> Code name: HOTDISH

>

> Matthew

At 09:58 AM 7/24/2007, Kogswell Cycles wrote:

>Here's a photo of the fabled 700C x 59cm:

>

>     http://kogswell.com/images/photo700Cpr.jpg

>

>Code name: HOTDISH



Very nice. How long is the top tube on that dish? Apologies if you've

already posted the geometry and I missed it.



And will these come with fenders?



Thanks!



Mitchell

--- In KOG@yahoogroups.com, Mitchell Gass <mitchell@...> wrote:

>

> At 09:58 AM 7/24/2007, Kogswell Cycles wrote:

> >Here's a photo of the fabled 700C x 59cm:

> >

> >     http://kogswell.com/images/photo700Cpr.jpg

> >

> >Code name: HOTDISH

>

> Very nice. How long is the top tube on that dish? Apologies if you've

> already posted the geometry and I missed it.

>

> And will these come with fenders?

>

> Thanks!

>

> Mitchell

>





See http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/11240



Top tube is 58.7mm (damn, I'm gonna need a short stem!)



No fenders with the 700C models, according to MG.