Search the web
Sign In
New User? Sign Up
KOG · Kogswell Owners Group
? Already a member? Sign in to Yahoo!

Yahoo! Groups Tips

Did you know...
Show off your group to the world. Share a photo of your group with us.

Best of Y! Groups

   Check them out and nominate your group.
Having problems with message search? Fill out this form to ensure your group is one of the first to be migrated to the new message search system.

Messages

  Messages Help
Advanced
LHT -> LTH (Long Haul Trucker -> Low Trail Hack)   Message List  
Reply | Forward Message #17857 of 24674 |
Chiming in with my initial report on the application of a G2 Kogswell
fork to my Surly Long Haul Trucker.

Below is a link to my Flickr page with the photos and below that are
my test notes and resulting experience.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8130268@N04/sets/72157604039492694/

The Trucker was built up in June '07, 60cm frame, uncut fork steerer
(32cm).
Stock Front End Geometry:
http://kogswell.com/geo.php?c3.x=8&c3.y=17&h1=695&i1=72&j1=45
tire dia 696mm
head ang 72.0 deg
fork offset 45mm
-> trail: 66mm flop: 20

Last month I obtained a 700c G2 fork with 67mm of offset, which I
planned to use on the trucker to experiment with low trail front end
geometry.
http://kogswell.com/geo.php?c3.x=8&c3.y=17&h1=695&i1=72&j1=67
Modified Front End Geometry
tire dia 696mm
head ang 72.0deg
fork offset 67mm
->trail: 43mm flop: 13

Before installing the G2 fork I built a new front rack for it with
Alex's help and facilitation. Last night I installed the fork and rack
and got an initial test ride in. I cut the Kog fork down to the same
length as the uncut Surly fork, 32cm. When installing and putting the
brakes on it seemed that the canti braze ons were too high, almost
where they should be for a 27" (630) wheel. I have Shimano BR-R550
cantilevers which I have been very happy with and which placed the
pads mid-slot on the stock fork. I filed the slots down a bit but
ended up angling the pads down to make them work with the new fork.
This makes the pad and rim surface are not exactly parallel. The pads
are lightly used but had worm evenly.

With the bare essentials hooked up I rode around the block with no
load. The first difference I noticed was while pedaling when standing
I could feel the fork flex much more. I'm not sure if this was the
tubing or the increased curvature of the blades, or a combination of
both. I tried riding no handed but there was not a big increase in
stability. I never felt comfortable riding the LHT no-handed before
either. I took some fast corners while descending and pointed the bike
at manhole cover in the turn and was easily able to make the turning
radius tighter and avoid it.

I went back home and installed the new rack and placed a 10 lb round
weight in a bag and bungied it to the rack to try a relatively heavy
load on top of the rack. I though this may help the no handed riding
feeling more stable but again no magical stability that I felt. I am
an admittedly poor no hands rider though. The bike still seemed to
veer off and my body corrections quickly resulted in over steering.
Climbing with the load I did notice increased front end stability
relative to when I would load up the front of the bike with the stock
fork. I tried the descending turns again and the ability to change
radius mid turn was still there.

So my initial conclusion is, it's still a bicycle. I did notice a more
stable front end with a load but not to the point me being comfortable
riding no-handed. I'll continue to experiment with carrying my loads
on the front rack and divided between 2 low-rider panniers.

Andre Ball
Seattle, WA




Tue Mar 4, 2008 8:38 pm

andre_ball_x
Offline Offline
Send Email Send Email

Forward
Message #17857 of 24674 |
Expand Messages Author Sort by Date

Chiming in with my initial report on the application of a G2 Kogswell fork to my Surly Long Haul Trucker. Below is a link to my Flickr page with the photos and...
andre_ball_x
Offline Send Email
Mar 4, 2008
8:38 pm

... Well, according to http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/14602 "E: offset: 70mm, brake->axle 384mm, pivot 287mm (622) 700C P/R, G, D, F F:...
Jim Gourgoutis
jim.gourgoutis
Offline Send Email
Mar 4, 2008
10:48 pm

... That measurment adheres, Axle-Canti pivot is 287mm on my fork The stock LHT fork measure about 282mm An 80's Centurion touring fork for 27" wheels measures...
andre_ball_x
Offline Send Email
Mar 5, 2008
5:25 am

I just tried two sets of canti's on my 700C 40mm trail fork. The Avid Shorty 4s were a no-go, while the DiaCompe 986s seem to work. That's interesting that...
Jim Gourgoutis
jim.gourgoutis
Offline Send Email
Mar 5, 2008
7:49 am

... It sure seems like they're specced really high on purpose — I have the same Shimano canti brakes on my 650B P/R II, and they're barely working because...
Frederick Blasdel
blasdelf
Offline Send Email
Mar 5, 2008
12:16 pm

On my 650B P/R (v2) I have the same issue - the pads are all the way at the bottom - it really saps the power of the brakes (decreases the mechanical advantage...
Greg Kimberly
greglists
Offline Send Email
Mar 5, 2008
8:17 pm

Given the fork/brake compatibility problems folks (including me) are having, I feel brake recommendations should be made as part of the build dimensions. ...
anderson.neil
Offline Send Email
Mar 5, 2008
10:28 pm

... Agreed. ... So what brakes ended up working for you? What was the brand/model you bought that didn't work, and what did you swap it with from your other ...
Jim Gourgoutis
jim.gourgoutis
Offline Send Email
Mar 5, 2008
11:02 pm

Hi Jim, see: http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/KOG/message/17791 The brakes that didn't work were tektro oryx and those that did work were the shimano...
anderson.neil
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
12:05 am

... Ah, sorry, I'd seen that post but didn't connect it to this thread. So the consensus seems to be that the P/R forks seem to work better with the old-style...
Jim Gourgoutis
jim.gourgoutis
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
12:11 am

Thanks for pointing those out. I should say that the BR-R550's work unmodified, albeit just barely on the 650b setup as opposed to them apparently requiring...
Greg Kimberly
greglists
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
12:42 am

... Since Sheldon's no longer with us, and this is the kind of thing he'd want to point out: Lowering the pads will *increase* the mechanical advantage on...
Murray Love
murraylove
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
1:49 am

Thanks much for that reply Murray. I we were talking about descending arms off a center pull brake yes, I'd agree. However, I think it's the other way around...
Greg Kimberly
greglists
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
2:06 am

... But the force is applied by the cable at the top of the canti arm, so the crucial distance is that between the applied force where the cable attaches and...
Murray Love
murraylove
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
4:00 am

Eureka! I did have it exactly backwards - I was expecting that lowering the pads lowered the leverage - that would have explained the lack of power. Thanks for...
Greg Kimberly
greglists
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
8:00 am

... Yeah, that's the paradox: theoretically higher braking force vs. the subjective feeling of weaker braking. Perhaps the reduced feedback of high-MA setups...
Murray Love
murraylove
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
3:26 pm

... Can you change the lever feel by changing the toe-in? I feel like I just did that on my mountain bike's v-brakes, but I changed too many variables in too...
Philip Williamson
philip.willi...
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
4:35 pm

On Thu, Mar 6, 2008 at 8:34 AM, Philip Williamson < ... Yeah, that's right--too much toe-in can really mess up a brake's feel, cantis or otherwise. I suspect...
Murray Love
murraylove
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
5:48 pm

... I looked at one bike a couple of weeks ago that had a very spongy feeling front brake. The front pads had around 1 cm (yes, cm, not mm) of toe. It took...
Steve Palincsar
palincss
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
5:58 pm

My front brakes do have a fair amount of toe-in (nothing like a cm, though, yikes!). It sounds like reducing that might be very worthwhile - thanks for that...
Greg Kimberly
greglists
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
9:16 pm

... Also... A little birdy just told me that on the 700C model, the "Pauls touring canti's appear to work just fine". And those use, of course, modern ...
Jim Gourgoutis
jim.gourgoutis
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
1:28 am

Well I went ahead and ordered the adjustable yokes from Harris. If that doesn't work I may well give the Paul's a shot. All this brake messing about may be...
Greg Kimberly
greglists
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
1:39 am

... That is disappointing since the Oryx were provided with (at least some of) the prototype frames and ran fairly mid-slot: ...
alex wetmore
alexphredorg
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
2:26 am

... That's strange. The Oryx brakes worked on my Konversion fork (700c 9/8" threadless with 67mm offset, braking on an MA3 rim). I haven't spent a ton of time...
johnwallacebratton
johnwallaceb...
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
2:50 am

... Alex, could you measure the axle to stud distance on your periwinkle prototype fork, and also your primer-grey G1 fork? I'm curious now... -Jim G...
Jim Gourgoutis
jim.gourgoutis
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
3:35 am

I'm using the Oryx on my G2. Anthony built-up my frame before he left Texas. If I recall correctly, the fit was very close and he simply filed the corner of...
Chris Johnson
cj.spinner
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
2:10 pm

... I just saw this. Chris. I never put the Oryx on another G2. For one, the filing takes too much time for me. More importantly, on the other bike I tried...
longleafbicycles
longleafbicy...
Offline Send Email
Mar 8, 2008
1:48 pm

I'm using the Oryx on my G2. Anthony built-up my frame before he left Texas. If I recall correctly, the fit was very close and he simply filed the corner of...
Chris Johnson
cj.spinner
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
2:11 pm

... Fwiw, I'm using Shimano BR-R550 brakes on my 650B 61.1 cm P/R G.2 and had no problem at all with setup, reach, performance, etc. I'm using Sun CR-18 rims....
neal_lerner
Offline Send Email
Mar 6, 2008
11:12 pm
First  | < Prev  |  Last 
Advanced

Copyright © 2009 Yahoo! Inc. All rights reserved.
Privacy Policy - Terms of Service - Guidelines - Help