Is Johan himself at that list, too? If yes:

Happy birthday and as others already wrote: Please continue your good work!

If not: Erik, please collect those wishes and make a big email out of it :-)

Have a nice day,
Martin

----- Original Message -----

From: Erik & Saskia Wannee

To: Flevofan@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, October 07, 2004 2:45 AM

Subject: [Flevofan] Johan's birthday

Today is the 60th birthday of Johan Vrielink, the founder of
the Flevobike factory.

Let's congratulate him and hope that more and more nice
ideas will come from his fruitful mind :-)

Cheers!
Erik Wannee.

Happy Birthday Johan!

Please continue to make the world a better place with your ideas!  I
promise to do the same.


Giles from sub-sub-sub tropical London

--- In Flevofan@yahoogroups.com, Erik & Saskia Wannee <Erik@W...>
wrote:
> Today is the 60th birthday of Johan Vrielink, the founder of
> the Flevobike factory.
>
> Let's congratulate him and hope that more and more nice
> ideas will come from his fruitful mind :-)
>
> Cheers!
> Erik Wannee.

Today is the 60th birthday of Johan Vrielink, the founder of
the Flevobike factory.

Let's congratulate him and hope that more and more nice
ideas will come from his fruitful mind :-)

Cheers!
Erik Wannee.

----- Original Message -----

From: Martin Anderseck

To: Flevofan@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, October 05, 2004 12:19 PM

Subject: Re: [Flevofan] Thomas Kretschmer

Hi together,

Eduardo L P Jr asked:

> Do anyone here has news or information about Thomas Kretschmer? He was the
> "father" of the direct-drive, a planetary hub showed at Flevofan 4.8

Last time I met him was about 2 or 3 years ago. He always wanted a producer
for his hub but until now (?) never found one.
As far as I know the concept of 12 gears in that hub was never built until
now and his own bike and at least one other bike only have hubs with fixed
gears.
If you're interested in the website of Thomas Kretschmer (it's not too big,
but contains many information) I could send it to you. It was on one of the
HPV-CD-Roms which I unfortunality don't have here at the moment because I
lent it to a potential recumbent cyclist :-)

Sunny greetings from Germany,
Martin

Hi Flevofans,
> Eduardo L P Jr asked:
>
> > Do anyone here has news or information about Thomas Kretschmer? He was
the
> > "father" of the direct-drive, a planetary hub showed at Flevofan 4.8
>
> Last time I met him was about 2 or 3 years ago. He always wanted a
producer
> for his hub but until now (?) never found one.
> As far as I know the concept of 12 gears in that hub was never built until
> now and his own bike and at least one other bike only have hubs with fixed
> gears.

as far as I know, Stefan Daniel, who back then planned to go commercial with
Thomas "Direct Drive" Idea, inherited most of the plans.
Stefan participated in this years folding recumbent design contest at the
SPEZI fair with his direct drive bike which features a modified former 12
gear Sachs "Elan" hub which is now single geared, but gives a gear ratio of
1:3. So three Knicklenkers (together with my Twist and another dutch design)
participatet, what fills me with some pride, that Knicklenkers are a good
design for folding recumbents.

Rumours say that Thomas Kretschmer gave up on his efforts to develop his
direct drive hub, for there were no sponsors and his family could not stand
longer his activities.

for folders I think it is still interesting, but there is another drawback
(despite the gerring problem) to the direct drive design: wheel size has to
be at least 26" or the pedals will too soon touch the ground while
cornering.

     Hanno, just coming back from the beach, still 28 degrees around here in
tropical south germany.

Hi together,

Eduardo L P Jr asked:

> Do anyone here has news or information about Thomas Kretschmer? He was the
> "father" of the direct-drive, a planetary hub showed at Flevofan 4.8

Last time I met him was about 2 or 3 years ago. He always wanted a producer
for his hub but until now (?) never found one.
As far as I know the concept of 12 gears in that hub was never built until
now and his own bike and at least one other bike only have hubs with fixed
gears.
If you're interested in the website of Thomas Kretschmer (it's not too big,
but contains many information) I could send it to you. It was on one of the
HPV-CD-Roms which I unfortunality don't have here at the moment because I
lent it to a potential recumbent cyclist :-)

Sunny greetings from Germany,
Martin

Hi All !

> with Drum Brakes of Sachs or $himano rollerbrake type, mostly it is a
> problem of  the cable, due to wear they just don't deliver enough force to
> the brake lever at the brake.

My Sturmey-Archer-drum-brakes too don't deliver much decelleration, but they are
used for the back tires on my Flevo Trike and thats enough for this position (as
Eric mentioned). I prefer three braked weels !
The front weel brake is a hydraulic rim brake, which works quite well.
A spoke-generator (FER) and 8*3 SRAM drive don't leave to much space for
additional brakes. A second rim brake could produce more problems with
overheating.

> I think, hydraulic opreated drum brakes perform better.

The front brakes for my Anthrothech are hydraulic drum brakes, they work fine.
My bike dealer prefers hydraulic disk brakes there. At the moment I don't see a
reason to change.

> theory says that this would decrease the amount of surfaces that finally rub
> together, although this solution seems logical to most bystanders.

Maybe because you remove with some dirt from the surface ? ("Abrieb")

> o.k. drum brakes seem to be a bit weak and tend to have problems.
> ...but somehow they need less maintenance.

yes, but sometimes they produce a lot of unneccesary noise (and stopp with it,
without a visible reason)


Greetings

Ralf List

Hello,
> Reinout van Rees wrote:
>
> > Question on that. I think what I've got is a "drum" brake
> > on my flevobike bike. Two semi-circles of metal that you
> > push from the inside-out at a drum that surrounds it.
> > (Hope it's clear...)
>
> Indeed!
> In Dutch: Trommelrem ;-)
>
> > My problem: I don't get enough breaking power from it. I
> > tried things like cleaning it, making sure there's no
> > residual oil in it,
>
> There may not be any oil in those brakes, nor may it ever
> have been there.
>
> > tightening the brake cables, etc. But I'm still not
> > impressed by the breaking power.
> >
> > So, is this a known problem?

yes, yes....

with Drum Brakes of Sachs or $himano rollerbrake type, mostly it is a
problem of  the cable, due to wear they just don't deliver enough force to
the brake lever at the brake.


> Simple solutions? I'm almost
> > tempted to put some sand inside the drum...

I don't knowm why, but water is the better choice.

In humid wheather, drum brakes tend to perform better.


> Known problem. Some drum brakes work very well and other
> ones (even from the same factory) work bad. Nobody seems to
> know why. (Afaik.)

I think, hydraulic opreated drum brakes perform better.

> Of course start convincing yourself that the brake coating
> is not completely gone. And the semi-circles must fit nicely
> against the inside of the drum.
> Maybe it will help to make the surface of the brake shoes a
> little bit rough with sandpaper?

theory says that this would decrease the amount of surfaces that finally rub
together, although this solution seems logical to most bystanders.

> Sometimes it is necessary to replace the brake shoes. You
> can ask your local bike shop what they think about the
> brake. (There is nothing specially recumbent-like to those
> brakes, so every good bike shop can help you.)

maybe rubbing surfaces decreased, maybe while overheating surfaces went
bent?

o.k. drum brakes seem to be a bit weak and tend to have problems.

     Hanno, but somehow they need less maintenance.

> Fokke Buwalda wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> where can I mount a jiffy stand on a racer?
> [...]
> The central part of the frame seems too high above the
> ground for an ordinary stand. Has anyone tried to mount
> a support on the front wheel axle?

I did. See http://wannee.nl/hpv/variatie/e-var-1.htm
Just in front of the front wheel pat, I welded a 90 degree
bended steel plate with a 10 mm hole in it. A normal stand
can be bolterd there.

For the rear part, I had to make the stand longer. An old
one was cannibalised for that, and welded against the end of
the original one. Works very well.

Later, I found a way that I didn't need to weld a part to
the stand. You can see it on:
http://wannee.nl/hpv/variatie/e-var-8.htm
There I mounted the stand in a completely different way near
the rear wheel, and it folds to the front instead of
backwards.
There, the frame is lower to the ground, and you can use a
normal stand. And it works fine!
You have to try it with a stand in your hand to understand
how I did it :-)

> Fokke - surely the first to consider this problem -
> Buwalda

You think?

Erik Wannee.

Reinout van Rees wrote:

> Question on that. I think what I've got is a "drum" brake
> on my flevobike bike. Two semi-circles of metal that you
> push from the inside-out at a drum that surrounds it.
> (Hope it's clear...)

Indeed!
In Dutch: Trommelrem ;-)

> My problem: I don't get enough breaking power from it. I
> tried things like cleaning it, making sure there's no
> residual oil in it,

There may not be any oil in those brakes, nor may it ever
have been there.

> tightening the brake cables, etc. But I'm still not
> impressed by the breaking power.
>
> So, is this a known problem? Simple solutions? I'm almost
> tempted to put some sand inside the drum...

Known problem. Some drum brakes work very well and other
ones (even from the same factory) work bad. Nobody seems to
know why. (Afaik.)

Of course start convincing yourself that the brake coating
is not completely gone. And the semi-circles must fit nicely
against the inside of the drum.
Maybe it will help to make the surface of the brake shoes a
little bit rough with sandpaper? I have never tried, but I
think you can at least try ...
I wouldn't like to insert sand. That could damage the drum
itself, or get into the braking mechanism itself, and jam
it.
Sometimes it is necessary to replace the brake shoes. You
can ask your local bike shop what they think about the
brake. (There is nothing specially recumbent-like to those
brakes, so every good bike shop can help you.)

Cheers, Erik Wannee.

On Fri, 10 Sep 2004, Erik & Saskia Wannee wrote:

> Don't use brakes on the rear wheel(s)! If you brake, the
> bike tends to bend forward, and almost all pressure of the
> inertia of bike and rider is on the front wheel.

Thanks, sounds like a good advice.

> But even then, I advise two brakes both on the front wheel. One
> brake on the rim (f.i. cantilever or hydraulic) and one on the hub
> (f.i. backpedal, drum, disk, roller)

Question on that. I think what I've got is a "drum" brake on my
flevobike bike. Two semi-circles of metal that you push from the
inside-out at a drum that surrounds it. (Hope it's clear...)

My problem: I don't get enough breaking power from it. I tried things
like cleaning it, making sure there's no residual oil in it,
tightening the brake cables, etc. But I'm still not impressed by the
breaking power.

So, is this a known problem? Simple solutions? I'm almost tempted to
put some sand inside the drum...

Reinout


--
Reinout van Rees - reinout@...
http://vanrees.org/
"Don't just do something, sit there."

Giles Russell wrote:

> Eric I have to ask, was the ease of converting in
> 1 minute due to the particular configuration you had.

No: The connecting parts are identical to the original
factory ones.

> I recall for instance you had chosen kickback brakes
> on the front, but did you have a special arrangement
> for brakes on the rear such as a cable decoupler?

Don't use brakes on the rear wheel(s)! If you brake, the
bike tends to bend forward, and almost all pressure of the
inertia of bike and rider is on the front wheel.
To get an example: With the standard Magura hydraulic barkes
on the front wheel it is easy to put it 'on the nose'. That
looks very spectacular but it is my experience that it is
not dangerous. If the bike gets completely vertical, your
feet are at the ground and you can walk forwards. (Or fall
backwards into the seat.)
If you would brake on the rear wheel, there is a very big
risk of skidding. And thus losing control.

The only way to use rear brakes is for long duration braking
with few braking power, f.i. if you descend a mountain. In
that case, braking on only one front wheel brake could
overheat it, and you need supplementary brakes. But even
then, I advise two brakes both on the front wheel. One brake
on the rim (f.i. cantilever or hydraulic) and one on the hub
(f.i. backpedal, drum, disk, roller)
Or you could use a very lightweight, relyable and never
overheated brake: A brake parachute! Test on velomobiles
showed that they work very well to reduce speeds on long
descendings.

IF you might decide to mount a brake on the rear wheel, use
a brake that cannot brake strongly, so that it is impossible
to block the wheel.

Good braking!

Erik (With a 'k')

Eric

Um, belay that question, I was forgetting the handlebars with the
brakes on them were on the back part, I meant the hub shifter on the
front.

Giles

--- In Flevofan@yahoogroups.com, "Giles Russell" <geelez4321@y...>
wrote:
> Eric I have to ask, was the ease of converting in 1 minute due to
> the particular configuration you had.  I recall for instance you
had
> chosen kickback brakes on the front, but did you have a special
> arrangement for brakes on the rear such as a cable decoupler?  I
> have mostly seen Magura hydraulic brakes on Flevos.  It may be
> obvious if I were to see a standard bike or trike in the flesh so
> please forgive my continued ignorance.
>
> Giles
>
> --- In Flevofan@yahoogroups.com, Erik & Saskia Wannee <Erik@W...>
> wrote:
> > Arto Joutsimäki wrote:
> >
> > > Is there an easy way to make from a Flevotrike a
> > > Flevobike? I have looked at the building instructions
> > > I found on the net, but don't quite understand the
> > > difference between these models (beside the number of
> > > wheels, of course).
> > > It could be very convenient if I could easily change
> > > from bike to trike and back.
> > > I have the original, old Flevotrike.
> >
> > I can change from bike to trike (and back again) in less
> > than a minute.
> > I have only one front part and four rear parts: Two bike
> > rear parts (that is: with one wheel) and two trike rear
> > parts (with two wheels).
> >
> > So if you have a trike, you can decide to buy (or build) a
> > bike rear part, so that you have both. Both rear parts have
> > the universal connection system. It is even possible to
> > attach a Flevo RACER front part to a trike rear part if you
> > would like to do that.
> >
> > The difference between the both rear parts is of course that
> > the Trike has a Duschar joint and the Bike has not.
> > (Probably you know that my trikes have no Duschar joint, but
> > that is an exception. My trike rear parts have the two hinge
> > functions separated, and the sideways tilting hinge is much
> > lower than in the original trikes, as is explained in
> > http://wannee.nl/hpv/variatie/e-var-6.htm)
> >
> > Cheers, Erik Wannee.
> >
> > PS My second trike rear part can only be found on a Dutch
> > language page: http://wannee.nl/hpv/oefentri/
> > I built it especially for people who want to learn to ride a
> > FlevoBike. Because the tilting hinge is so extremely low
> > above the ground, it rides almost like a Bike, but the only
> > exception is that you can stay upright with both hands
> > firmly on the handlebars. The frame is made from 2 mm thick
> > stainless steel so that 'first time' test pilots cannot
> > damage much to it. At this very moment, someone in the
> > Netherlands is riding his first kilometres on it. (People
> > can rent it during a week, together with an instruction
> > manual: http://wannee.nl/hpv/oefentri/oefentrike.pdf)

Eric I have to ask, was the ease of converting in 1 minute due to
the particular configuration you had.  I recall for instance you had
chosen kickback brakes on the front, but did you have a special
arrangement for brakes on the rear such as a cable decoupler?  I
have mostly seen Magura hydraulic brakes on Flevos.  It may be
obvious if I were to see a standard bike or trike in the flesh so
please forgive my continued ignorance.

Giles

--- In Flevofan@yahoogroups.com, Erik & Saskia Wannee <Erik@W...>
wrote:
> Arto Joutsimäki wrote:
>
> > Is there an easy way to make from a Flevotrike a
> > Flevobike? I have looked at the building instructions
> > I found on the net, but don't quite understand the
> > difference between these models (beside the number of
> > wheels, of course).
> > It could be very convenient if I could easily change
> > from bike to trike and back.
> > I have the original, old Flevotrike.
>
> I can change from bike to trike (and back again) in less
> than a minute.
> I have only one front part and four rear parts: Two bike
> rear parts (that is: with one wheel) and two trike rear
> parts (with two wheels).
>
> So if you have a trike, you can decide to buy (or build) a
> bike rear part, so that you have both. Both rear parts have
> the universal connection system. It is even possible to
> attach a Flevo RACER front part to a trike rear part if you
> would like to do that.
>
> The difference between the both rear parts is of course that
> the Trike has a Duschar joint and the Bike has not.
> (Probably you know that my trikes have no Duschar joint, but
> that is an exception. My trike rear parts have the two hinge
> functions separated, and the sideways tilting hinge is much
> lower than in the original trikes, as is explained in
> http://wannee.nl/hpv/variatie/e-var-6.htm)
>
> Cheers, Erik Wannee.
>
> PS My second trike rear part can only be found on a Dutch
> language page: http://wannee.nl/hpv/oefentri/
> I built it especially for people who want to learn to ride a
> FlevoBike. Because the tilting hinge is so extremely low
> above the ground, it rides almost like a Bike, but the only
> exception is that you can stay upright with both hands
> firmly on the handlebars. The frame is made from 2 mm thick
> stainless steel so that 'first time' test pilots cannot
> damage much to it. At this very moment, someone in the
> Netherlands is riding his first kilometres on it. (People
> can rent it during a week, together with an instruction
> manual: http://wannee.nl/hpv/oefentri/oefentrike.pdf)

Arto Joutsimäki wrote:

> Is there an easy way to make from a Flevotrike a
> Flevobike? I have looked at the building instructions
> I found on the net, but don't quite understand the
> difference between these models (beside the number of
> wheels, of course).
> It could be very convenient if I could easily change
> from bike to trike and back.
> I have the original, old Flevotrike.

I can change from bike to trike (and back again) in less
than a minute.
I have only one front part and four rear parts: Two bike
rear parts (that is: with one wheel) and two trike rear
parts (with two wheels).

So if you have a trike, you can decide to buy (or build) a
bike rear part, so that you have both. Both rear parts have
the universal connection system. It is even possible to
attach a Flevo RACER front part to a trike rear part if you
would like to do that.

The difference between the both rear parts is of course that
the Trike has a Duschar joint and the Bike has not.
(Probably you know that my trikes have no Duschar joint, but
that is an exception. My trike rear parts have the two hinge
functions separated, and the sideways tilting hinge is much
lower than in the original trikes, as is explained in
http://wannee.nl/hpv/variatie/e-var-6.htm)

Cheers, Erik Wannee.

PS My second trike rear part can only be found on a Dutch
language page: http://wannee.nl/hpv/oefentri/
I built it especially for people who want to learn to ride a
FlevoBike. Because the tilting hinge is so extremely low
above the ground, it rides almost like a Bike, but the only
exception is that you can stay upright with both hands
firmly on the handlebars. The frame is made from 2 mm thick
stainless steel so that 'first time' test pilots cannot
damage much to it. At this very moment, someone in the
Netherlands is riding his first kilometres on it. (People
can rent it during a week, together with an instruction
manual: http://wannee.nl/hpv/oefentri/oefentrike.pdf)

Hi

Is there an easy way to make from a Flevotrike a Flevobike? I have
looked at the building instructions I found on the net, but don't quite
understand the difference between these models (beside the number of
wheels, of course).
It could be very convinient if I could easily change from bike to trike
and back.
I have the original, old Flevotrike.

Regards

Arto Joutsimäki
Primary school music class teacher
Kerava Central School (www.edu.kerava.fi/keskusk)
EUN Virtual School Music Department (www.eun.org)
Vanha Myllypolku 4 B 8
FIN-01360 Vantaa
Finland
+358 41 5282711
www.saunalahti.fi/ajou
www.arcushill.com

Hello Giles,

Giles Russell wrote:

> > When you get one of your own, you "have to" learn it.
>
> (Sigh) yes Hanno, how many times must you all have advised that it
> was not possible to get an idea of the bike from a brief encounter
> and I have read and appreciate this.  Just my frustration at never
> having actually seen one in the flesh, only by means of the good old
> WWW.  I was just wanting to get a feel for weight and balance.  I had
> a look at the http://www.ligfiets.net/markt/ site thank you and there
> were certainly some good deals there.

Well, with our Flevobikes it was even more exciting: We only once saw a real
Flevobike hanging on the back of a van, but that was enough to bring us to
the Flevobike. After that we did some research on the internet about it and
then - without being able to ride on it - we started building the first one
:-)

> If I can ask your assistance a tiny bit more in this regard,
> can you confirm what the following options from the Templemann site
> mean:
> Hydrolische achtervering  -hydraulic rear suspension?

Right.

> Verlichtingsset           -lights?

Right.

> Wieldoeken (per wiel)     -mudguards?

Wrong ;-)
The "wieldoeken" are wheel covers and the price is per wheel.

> Hoogte instelling         -stand?
>                   (Babel fish translates it as 'altitude institution')

Nope. The Flevobike can be delivered with a simple piece of steel that lifts
the backpart higher than normal. So the "hoogte instelling" is the very
little thing you can see at http://www.ligfietsshop.nl/alg/bike.jpg over the
suspension-rubber. With this higher "setup" some people say it's easier to
cycle on the Flevobike and according to the changed steering-angle it should
be easier to steer at low speeds.

> Achterdrager              -rear rack?

Right.

A very useful thing for all people who don't know Dutch or are interested in
any other translations of bike-relevant texts is the dictionary at
ligfiets.net: http://www.ligfiets.net/woordenboek

> > we suggest a Flevo Trike....
> Actually my thoughts strongly run along the lines of what also is
> needed for freight delivery in built up areas like London, where
> hands free map reading is a plus, but narrow profile means
> getting 'through the eye of the needle' traffic wise.

A Flevotrike is not so very much bigger than a bike, but of course exactly on
that place where you don't assume it could be too big it *is* too big ;-)

> I have tried trikes for touring and the worst complaint I have is
> that you are almost always at an angle due to the camber of the
> road.

The Flevotrike is almost ridden like a bike because the frontpart doesn't
tilt with the backpart. http://flevofan.ligfiets.net/ch1/duschar.gif explains
the "Duschar"-mechanism.
@Erik: I noticed you've inserted the pictures of the Flevo-builder class, thx!

> Also in terms of weight - why take along an extra wheel if two
> can do the job more simply and smaller profile in that if cargo is
> hauled behind the seat it is not adding to drag and containment can
> be streamlined as well.

Our Flevotrike has more traction on the front wheel, but this is mostly
because of the longer back part. But I agree that having a bike is more
practical in a city. Although the Flevotrike tilts like a bike a bike can
still be ridden somewhat faster and is less complicated.

> I am curious about the mechanics of a front wheel drive
> when the rear wheel is extended further out in terms of stability -
> understeer (oversteer?) depending on speed and load.

What I noticed with our Flevo-tandem is that if you go around corners very
quickly it seems that you have very much load on the front wheel. Otherwise I
couldn't see any positive or negative influences. But of course the front
wheel doesn't want to slip anymore - or at least you need very much power ;-)

Flevonautic greetings from Germany,
Martin
--
Dear God, give me          / 50° 52' 1" N
patience... IMMEDIATELY!  / 14° 45' 44" E
          http://martin-anderseck.de.vu

>
> Don't go for a tryout, you have to own one of your own, if not, you
give soon back the borrowed one and are disappointed because you
don't succeed to ride it at once.
>
> When you get one of your own, you "have to" learn it.
>
(Sigh) yes Hanno, how many times must you all have advised that it
was not possible to get an idea of the bike from a brief encounter
and I have read and appreciate this.  Just my frustration at never
having actually seen one in the flesh, only by means of the good old
WWW.  I was just wanting to get a feel for weight and balance.  I had
a look at the http://www.ligfiets.net/markt/ site thank you and there
were certainly some good deals there.  A leap of faith is necessary
and therefore a new one would be best.  I will bite the bullet soon
enough.  If I can ask your assistance a tiny bit more in this regard,
can you confirm what the following options from the Templemann site
mean:

Hydrolische achtervering  -hydraulic rear suspension?
Verlichtingsset           -lights?
Wieldoeken (per wiel)     -mudguards?
Hoogte instelling         -stand?
                   (Babel fish translates it as 'altitude institution')
Achterdrager              -rear rack?


> Do we get you tight, you want something like a freight bike (or
trike)?
>
> we suggest a Flevo Trike....

Actually my thoughts strongly run along the lines of what also is
needed for freight delivery in built up areas like London, where
hands free map reading is a plus, but narrow profile means
getting 'through the eye of the needle' traffic wise.

I have tried trikes for touring and the worst complaint I have is
that you are almost always at an angle due to the camber of the
road.  Also in terms of weight - why take along an extra wheel if two
can do the job more simply and smaller profile in that if cargo is
hauled behind the seat it is not adding to drag and containment can
be streamlined as well.

> I was the first to dare, and I am still happy with the center
steering tandem.

It is natural and logical to design for the tandem to exploit both
wheel drives, which changes the dynamic considerably from front wheel
only.  But surely you will have tried the bike without your 'stoker'
or at least without them pedalling? I just re-checked that Eric said
on his variation 7 improvement: making the wheelbase longer on his
bike seemed to improve things: "An attendant advantage of the longer
wheel-base is, that the luggage trunk can be increased with the same
distance."  I am curious about the mechanics of a front wheel drive
when the rear wheel is extended further out in terms of stability -
understeer (oversteer?) depending on speed and load.  Is traction
going up hill noticeably improved if added weight is put on the back
or does this counteract the benefit of the longer wheelbase?

> In the development department the new center pivot is at stake. I
wrote a lot about it, but now I have to try it.
>
> unless we don't try it, we'll never know

Forgive my pre-occupation with this.  I hope you will not let my
elementary questions overly distract you from such noble pursuit!

Giles

Thanks Arto,

in spite that I have only a few months behind me as a Flevorider the
video where you give the trike your first try, brings out memories of
how it felt not knowing what to expect from this strange vehicle which
almost felt as if it was built out of rubber; swaying and wobbling when
least expected.

By the way, are these the videos I shall put on the CD?

To the rest of you all: I am compiling a CD to be enclosed with the
next issue of HPV Swedens magazine "Trampkraft" (Pedal power) and, if
anyone else has video sequences showing Flevobikes, Flevotrikes or any
other centre steered bike in action, you are welcome to send them to me
and I will put them on the CD. As a contributor you will of course
receive your own copy of the CD.

Note that all contents on the CD is HPV-ware and hence allowed to be
copied and spread over the planet in order to promote the HPV-thing.


Yours,
Olaf Johansson



On Saturday, September 4, 2004, at 07:27 PM, Arto Joutsimäki wrote:

> Please have a look at these new videos
>
> http://homepage.mac.com/artoj/iMovieTheater25.html
> http://homepage.mac.com/artoj/iMovieTheater24.html
>
> Regards
>
> Arto Joutsimäki
> Primary school music class teacher
> Kerava Central School (www.edu.kerava.fi/keskusk)
> EUN Virtual School Music Department (www.eun.org)
> Vanha Myllypolku 4 B 8
> FIN-01360 Vantaa
> Finland
> +358 41 5282711
> www.saunalahti.fi/ajou
> www.arcushill.com
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

Please have a look at these new videos

http://homepage.mac.com/artoj/iMovieTheater25.html
http://homepage.mac.com/artoj/iMovieTheater24.html

Regards

Arto Joutsimäki
Primary school music class teacher
Kerava Central School (www.edu.kerava.fi/keskusk)
EUN Virtual School Music Department (www.eun.org)
Vanha Myllypolku 4 B 8
FIN-01360 Vantaa
Finland
+358 41 5282711
www.saunalahti.fi/ajou
www.arcushill.com

Hi Giles,
> Just catching up with your old conversations.  I know its an old
> thread but has anyone thought of putting arm rests on, like those
> swing down rests on an airline seat or extensions like on a time
> trials bike.  Then you could mount your brakes, gears and whatnot on
> handles on the ends.  Personally I like the idea of armchair comfort.

its not like that there is nothing to do for the hands while riding, holding
maps, playing with Gadgets.....
there is the idea of having handlebars mounted to the rear part of a
Flevo-Trike long time around, this gives you better control and connection
to the rear part while swinging free the front, steering part. But I never
thought of having Armrests, thats a new idea to me. The arms could also rest
on your thights, where they eventually could help build up propulsion. Or
you could cross the arms before your chest in order to minimize frontal area
to reduce wind drag. on short trips I am too lazy o strap luggage to the
pannier, so I just keep it in Hands.
Arm rests would increase weight too.
But if you don't care about weight, why not, if in makes your ride more
comfortable.

I suggest to get yourself a Flevo, have some rides and then reconsider the
need of armrests....

     Hanno from tropical Germany

Hi Giles,
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am Giles Russell originally from very sunny Queensland (well it was
> last month, when I looked) but temporarily in Sunny London UK.  I
> have been 'temporarily' in London since 1990.

Welcome to the Flevofans !

> I don't actually have a Flevobike or a Racer but sure as hell would
> like to have one.  I keep looking on eBay for a good 2nd hand one.
> Any suggestions?  Otherwise I will bite the bullet and get a new
> one.  Is there anyone in London whom I can ask to 'try' one out?

Don't go for a tryout, you have to own one of your own, if not, you give
soon back the borrowed one and are disappointed because you don't succeed to
ride it at once.

When you get one of your own, you "have to" learn it.

> I have previously in Australia bodged bits together to make long
> distance tourers that looked something like the Burroughs 8Freight
> (http://www.bikefix.co.uk/i-8freight.html) as I used to be travelling
> all over that country and I got tired of having to pack up panniers
> and wobble along washboarded (bumpy), sand drifted, dirt roads.  I
> have no idea what has happened to those two, I hope they are still
> going and haven't killed anybody.
>
> My interest in Flevos stemmed from wanting to build a similar low
> loader on the back of a recumbent.

Do we get you tight, you want something like a freight bike (or trike)?

we suggest a Flevo Trike....


> I didn't want complicated masses
> of chains running to the back wheel and was trying to see if there
> was a tandem recumbent built with front wheel drive, which from the
> fan club site I see there is as made by Uwe Anderseck Hanno Hirsch
> and now Uwe Schnell.

I was the first to dare, and I am still happy with the center steering
tandem.

> I hope I will have some valuable things to contribute and in any case
> am grateful for the chance to read about your developments.

welcome, if you claerer specify your ideas or needs, maybe we can help you.

In the development department the new center pivot is at stake. I wrote a
lot about it, but now I have to try it.

unless we don't try it, we'll never know

good bike

     Hanno

Giles Russell wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I am Giles Russell originally from very sunny Queensland
> (well it was last month, when I looked) but temporarily
> in Sunny London UK.

Welcome to the club!
The club is going to be really international!

> I keep looking on eBay for a good 2nd hand one.

I guess 50% of all Flevos will be in the Netherlands, and
probably it will be possible for you to travel to NL to buy
one.
There is a very often updated and good working (but
unfortunately only in Dutch) second hand market place for
all kinds of HPV's, on: http://www.ligfiets.net/markt/
I think that with some phantasy you'll be able to understand
what the texts are about. Often you can see pictures of the
vehicles.
Most Dutch people will be able to understand mails in
English, so you can contact them.

> Is there anyone in London whom I can ask to 'try'
> one out?

Maybe the British importer? The address and so can be found
in chapter 2 of the Flevobike Fanclub site. It is in London.

> [...] was trying to see if there was a tandem recumbent
> built with front wheel drive, which from the fan club
> site I see there is as made by Uwe Anderseck, Hanno
> Hirsch and now Uwe Schnell.

Apart from the Flevo types of tandems, there are many more
tandems with two wheel drive and no chain in the middle.
For instance the 2 tandems that I have made. Unfortunately I
have not had time to make a real website about them, but you
can find pictures of them on respectively:
http://wannee.nl/hpv/dakdr/e-index.htm#tandem
http://wannee.nl/erik/e-trouwen.htm

There are also diy kits of back-to-back tandems, available
at BEL: http://betereenligfiets.nl/ (unfortunately that site
cooperates with monopolist Micro$oft, so rejects my visits.)

Cheers, Erik Wannee.

Hi,

Just catching up with your old conversations.  I know its an old
thread but has anyone thought of putting arm rests on, like those
swing down rests on an airline seat or extensions like on a time
trials bike.  Then you could mount your brakes, gears and whatnot on
handles on the ends.  Personally I like the idea of armchair comfort.

Giles

Hello everyone,

I am Giles Russell originally from very sunny Queensland (well it was
last month, when I looked) but temporarily in Sunny London UK.  I
have been 'temporarily' in London since 1990.

I don't actually have a Flevobike or a Racer but sure as hell would
like to have one.  I keep looking on eBay for a good 2nd hand one.
Any suggestions?  Otherwise I will bite the bullet and get a new
one.  Is there anyone in London whom I can ask to 'try' one out?

What I do have at present (my daughter corrects me - what we have at
present)is a 5 year old Pino that has been my (our) main stay for
school bus, shopping cart and touring bike.  I also have a mountain
bike fitted up with an extracycle extension for similar uses, a
racing bike that needs a new bottom bracket and a garage full of bike
bits and dreams.

I have previously in Australia bodged bits together to make long
distance tourers that looked something like the Burroughs 8Freight
(http://www.bikefix.co.uk/i-8freight.html) as I used to be travelling
all over that country and I got tired of having to pack up panniers
and wobble along washboarded (bumpy), sand drifted, dirt roads.  I
have no idea what has happened to those two, I hope they are still
going and haven't killed anybody.

My interest in Flevos stemmed from wanting to build a similar low
loader on the back of a recumbent.  I didn't want complicated masses
of chains running to the back wheel and was trying to see if there
was a tandem recumbent built with front wheel drive, which from the
fan club site I see there is as made by Uwe Anderseck Hanno Hirsch
and now Uwe Schnell.

I hope I will have some valuable things to contribute and in any case
am grateful for the chance to read about your developments.

Giles

Fokke Buwalda wrote:
>
> Erik,
>
> as far as I understood what I saw, the link in your
> message leads to a picture of a rowing trike (!??!?).

That was only to show an example of a possible future
(reuse) of a former test with a shaft drive.

The shaft drive itself is shown at:
http://flevofan.ligfiets.net/ch4-08/cardan.jpg

Cheers, Erik.

Erik,

as far as I understood what I saw, the link in your message leads to a
picture of a rowing trike (!??!?).

Interesting...


Fokke

>
> Eduardo L P Jr wrote:
>>
>> Hi All
>>
>> There are a picture of a shaft drive Flevo at the
>> Flevofan site, where Erik said:
>>
>> "Reasons to stop these experiments were that the system
>> was pretty weak, and easily pedaled into pieces. For a
>> cardan system that would be as strong as a traditional
>> chain-system, a much more expensive and heavier variant
>> should have to be built."
>>
>> Do anyone know what happened with that prototype? Where
>> is the weakness mentioned? In the structure or in the
>> shaft-drive system?
>
> As far as I remember, the problem was in the gear-wheels.
> The forces on them are huge because the human leg has an
> enormous torque. Even a higher torque than that of a normal
> car motor (although the rotational speed of car motors is of
> course much higher).
>
> The shaft drive part original Fendt probably works well in
> normal situations because they were built in bikes that were
> normally used by not-so-strong (older) people who did not
> race them.
> Compare that to an average young and enthusiastic recumbent
> bike rider who can press strongly against the back seat...
>
> The prototype was broken down in the riding test, and I
> presume the frame will have been reused many times for other
> tests. Remember
> http://flevofan.ligfiets.net/ch4-08/lin-drive.jpg and so.
> They all have been made from test frame parts that have been
> used again several times.
>
> Erik Wannee.
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>