Boat Trailer For Sale:

Space Coast Crew has a boat trailer for sale.  Trailer will carry 3 eights
and 3 fours.  The trailer bed and tires are new.  This would be an excellent
trailer for a small or new rowing program.  $2500 or best offer.  If
interested contact Larry Rehwoldt, 321-779-0533 or 321-494-2963.


Larry D. Rehwoldt
SCC Board of Directors

Greetings all,

Stetson Crew is looking to buy used sculling oars.  Preferably ultralight
hatchets.  Please call or email if you are aware of any available at your
club or boathouse.

Charles Huthmaker
Stetson University
Head Women's Coach
421 N. Woodland Blvd. #8359
DeLand, FL 32723
Cell: 386-747-1194
Office: 386-822-8102
Fax: 386-822-8148
http://www.stetson.edu/offices/athletics/crew/index.htm
http://www.stetson.edu/offices/athletics/index.htm

----- Original Message -----

From: JFRANCIS2807@...

To: FSRA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:44 PM

Subject: [FSRA] Points

Per a few requests I've attached a revised version of the point proposal.  I forgot to include the sculling events but intentionally left out Lightweights in hopes that the fastest boats would be entered in the premier events.  I realize that eliminating the lightweight category did not pass last year, so in that case light 8s & 4s would be equivalent to 2nd 8s & 4s.  My reasoning behind a revised system is to try to give smaller programs who are competitive in the premier events the opportunity to make a showing at States.

Jamie Francis
Edgewater

Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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I realize my viewpoint may appear biased since I'm a parent from a large crew (Lake Brantley) that won all points last year, but here it is anyway.

 

The current points system allows a large club to gain an advantage towards the all points trophy and therefore promotes recruiting of more young people into crew sports.  Hopefully, this is viewed by all parties as good for the individuals recruited into the healthy lifestyle imposed by this rigorous sport and good for the promotion of the sport of crew throughout the state.  This positive aspect of promoting recruiting should not be taken lightly.  At some time in the future, if enough young people are in crew, we may someday gain the recognition that will allow crew to become a state recognized and sponsored sport.

 

The smaller clubs that win the premier events of Varsity 8, Varsity 4, etc. have the medals and bragging rights of winning those events.  This is their reward and acknowledgement of their accomplishment in and of itself.  Possibly, some of these smaller clubs will recruit harder for next season in order to enter more events and thereby have a better chance of winning the all points trophy.  How is this system bad for crew as a whole?  Yes, the current system allows a large club an advantage but only if the club can compete well in many events.  If a large club does poorly in many events it most likely will not have sufficient points to win overall.

 

Yes, the system does promote recruiting for crew and brings more young people to crew.  I see this as a positive and not a negative.  I don't believe we should artificially weight the points system in such a way that it makes it possible for a four boat crew to win states.  In that case, why recruit when a distinct advantage may be had by cutting rowers to the best four boats and spending all coaching and equipment resources on those four boats?  I think this weighted system will send the wrong message and will not be good for crew as a sport.

 

At any rate, our points system should follow the national points system.  I don't think we can go wrong if we follow the nationally recognized system and after all, Nationals will be held here in 2004.  Anything else should be viewed as artificial weighting to give one "disadvantaged" group an advantage over another.  Neither our society nor our young people need to experience that anymore than has already been imposed on them. 

 

Thanks for listening.

Steve Burgess

Lake Brantley Crew

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From: JFRANCIS2807@...

To: FSRA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:44 PM

Subject: [FSRA] Points

Per a few requests I've attached a revised version of the point proposal.  I forgot to include the sculling events but intentionally left out Lightweights in hopes that the fastest boats would be entered in the premier events.  I realize that eliminating the lightweight category did not pass last year, so in that case light 8s & 4s would be equivalent to 2nd 8s & 4s.  My reasoning behind a revised system is to try to give smaller programs who are competitive in the premier events the opportunity to make a showing at States.

Jamie Francis
Edgewater

Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FSRA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FSRA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



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-----Original Message-----
From: John E. McLain III [mailto:jemclainiii@...]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:40 AM
To: cssucich@...; sburgess50@...; JFRANCIS2807@...; FSRA@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FSRA] Points

I have not yet seen the revised point system.  Jamie, can you please send me a copy?  Reading between the lines I wonder if the revised point system is based on last year's results?  How long was the old system used? 

Second, as a shorter rower, I have to ask the question of what defines a premier event?  Not every sport is designed to reward the tallest and heaviest.  Are you saying that a legitimate lightweight crew should not be rewarded the same as a varsity boat just because of weight?  Doesn't happen in some other sports.

Realistically, the all points trophy is a team award, not a varsity award.  Certainly, there seems like a better chance of winning the all points trophy if you have alot of novices, but isn't that the point?  On another note, Winter Park was recognized for putting together excellent varsity boats and not winning the all points trophy did not detract from their accomplishments.

Please consider this message, not based on any particular school.  The message is that teams should be encouraged to put as many teams on the water as possible and it is good that athletes compete against each other in classifications, novice, freshman, lightweight, etc.

>From: "Sucich, Craig S."

>To: 'Steve Burgess' , JFRANCIS2807@..., FSRA@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: RE: [FSRA] Points

>Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:52:07 -0500

>

>The current point system rewards the largest team, not necessarily the

>fastest. The revised points system is being designed so that the fastest

>and most competitive team in Florida will win the all points trophy,

>regardless of how many athletes are on the team. This will force all the

>teams to focus on the premier (high point) events. Spreading yourself out

>in all the events to try and scoop up as many points as possible will be

>replaced by focusing the talent at the top. This will not penalize the

>large teams, and will only help those small teams that have their act

>together.

>

>As a former head coach of Lake Brantley and Edgewater (two of the larger

>programs in the state), I highly recommend revising the current system.

>

>Craig Sucich

>Vice President - FSRA

>

>

>iginal Message-----

>From: Steve Burgess [mailto:sburgess50@...]

>Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 12:17 AM

>To: JFRANCIS2807@...; FSRA@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: Re: [FSRA] Points

>

>

>

>I realize my viewpoint may appear biased since I'm a parent from a large

>crew (Lake Brantley) that won all points last year, but here it is anyway.

>

>The current points system allows a large club to gain an advantage towards

>the all points trophy and therefore promotes recruiting of more young people

>into crew sports. Hopefully, this is viewed by all parties as good for the

>individuals recruited into the healthy lifestyle imposed by this rigorous

>sport and good for the promotion of the sport of crew throughout the state.

>This positive aspect of promoting recruiting should not be taken lightly.

>At some time in the future, if enough young people are in crew, we may

>someday gain the recognition that will allow crew to become a state

>recognized and sponsored sport.

>

>The smaller clubs that win the premier events of Varsity 8, Varsity 4, etc.

>have the medals and bragging rights of winning those events. This is their

>reward and acknowledgement of their accomplishment in and of itself.

>Possibly, some of these smaller clubs will recruit harder for next season in

>order to enter more events and thereby have a better chance of winning the

>all points trophy. How is this system bad for crew as a whole? Yes, the

>current system allows a large club an advantage but only if the club can

>compete well in many events. If a large club does poorly in many events it

>most likely will not have sufficient points to win overall.

>

>Yes, the system does promote recruiting for crew and brings more young

>people to crew. I see this as a positive and not a negative. I don't

>believe we should artificially weight the points system in such a way that

>it makes it possible for a four boat crew to win states. In that case, why

>recruit when a distinct advantage may be had by cutting rowers to the best

>four boats and spending all coaching and equipment resources on those four

>boats? I think this weighted system will send the wrong message and will

>not be good for crew as a sport.

>

>At any rate, our points system should follow the national points system. I

>don't think we can go wrong if we follow the nationally recognized system

>and after all, Nationals will be held here in 2004. Anything else should be

>viewed as artificial weighting to give one "disadvantaged" group an

>advantage over another. Neither our society nor our young people need to

>experience that anymore than has already been imposed on them.

>

>Thanks for listening.

>Steve Burgess

>Lake Brantley Crew

>

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: JFRANCIS2807@...

>To: FSRA@yahoogroups.com

>Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:44 PM

>Subject: [FSRA] Points

>

>Per a few requests I've attached a revised version of the point proposal. I

>forgot to include the sculling events but intentionally left out

>Lightweights in hopes that the fastest boats would be entered in the premier

>events. I realize that eliminating the lightweight category did not pass

>last year, so in that case light 8s & 4s would be equivalent to 2nd 8s & 4s.

>My reasoning behind a revised system is to try to give smaller programs who

>are competitive in the premier events the opportunity to make a showing at

>States.

>

>Jamie Francis

>Edgewater

>

>Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

>

>

>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>FSRA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service

> .

>

>

>

>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

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>

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>

>Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

>

>

>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>FSRA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service

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Howdy,

I just wanted to give some input to the points system which I think is
flawed and needs to be revised.

No offense at all is being directed to any program and I am not interested
in getting into any big time arguements until the coaches meeting.

Let's look at last years Men's 8 races at States.

V8  Winter Park first, Leon 2nd
JV8 Leon first, WP 2nd
3rd 8 Leon first, WP 2nd
Frosh 8 Leon first, Stanton 2nd

We did not enter any light 8's or 4's (no offense to lights).  I also am too
lazy to look back at who won those Light events, who came in 3rd in the
V,JV,3rd, Frosh, and I do recall Pine Crest winning the V4.

With Lake Brantley (hey Matt, Pat, Travis et al!) not taking 1st or 2nd in
the V, JV, 3rd, Frosh 8's they win the Men's Points on number of boats
entered. (Really, no offense meant!!!!!!!)

As Craig pointed out we are trying to gear towards putting your fastest V8
out there.

In my humble opinion, Winter Park wins because they won the V8 and took 2nd
in the JV, and 3rd.

Clearly we need to look at the points system from the above results.

Sincerely,

Tom Morgan
Leon Crew

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I remember a points system at the U. Tampa Presiden't Cup which was based on
winning and the time gap more than just finish placing. The closer you were
to the lead the more points you got rather than getting points by just
fielding a crew and crossing the line. This seemed to reward competitiveness
more than the number of crews you could put out.
Is anyone else familiar with points done like that? I believe Bill Dunlap
did it so any Tampa coaches might be able to look into this one. Yes a bit
more complicated, but might be worth a look.

Matt Kaminski

-----Original Message-----
From: Crossley, Brice A [mailto:Brice.Crossley-1@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 2:49 PM
To: 'FSRA'
Subject: RE: [FSRA] Points

Some things to have available for discussion possibilities:

 

1) For our upcoming discussions, would you please generate and distribute a point schedule that includes the possibility of petites for varsity 4 and 8 events (add points for places 7-12). If all this talk about varsity events and fastest boats is for real, there should definitely be consideration given to add petite events for the top events or at least the 8 if there is enough participation.

 

2) Don't you think sculling (at least single events) should be given more points than a 4^th 4 or 8? At most top level regattas, generally the single ranks second to the 8 as a premier event. Independent Rowing News seems to run as many articles comparing singles and they do teams. I'm by no means suggesting the 2 events are equal, but our single events have been about as well attended as the V8, so more points are worth considering even if your team does not provided sculling. Remember we are all looking good of the association and sport, no just what works for our teams this year. So if you divided out the sweep events to such an extent, might as well do it for sculling events (1x, 2x and 4x) too so that the same schedule can be used for both FSRA championships.

 

3) Is there a formula that was used to generate the points? Just wondering where this scale came from or what it is based on. And as Matt suggested, maybe we should adopt a formula system based on time as well as participation unless you think that might encourage some to cheat by rowing down an event. Then again, we are talking about team points and team participation, which is different than who won the varsity event, which we have separate trophies for. Just thinking out load here so don't jump down my throat. If Lake Brantley has a bigger team and stronger depth, maybe they do deserve the team points. If we take some of this logic to the extreme, we might consider given the varsity events so many points that it does not matter what happens the rest of the day for the team aspect of the sport. Personally, I think Tom's assessment as some validity but we do need to look at the total team aspect too, which is why this is a separate trophy.

 

4) Are we also going to get rid of the sliding scale system for under attended non-varsity events?

 

Last and different subject agenda item: Youth events. Bram, do we need to clarify what they are? Especially with the lesser boats like freshmen and novices. It seems the end of last season was a real yo-yo with what was and was not an event despite what was said at the last coach's meeting.

 

Thanks, Brice.

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Sucich, Craig S. [mailto:cssucich@...]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 10:01 AM
To: 'John E. McLain III'; Sucich, Craig S.; sburgess50@...; JFRANCIS2807@...; FSRA@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FSRA] Points

 

John,

 

Here is the revised point system.  No, the revised point system was brought up at last year's coaching conference.  However, since it was not on the official agenda, no vote was taken.

 

This sport has always been about which boat crosses the finish line first.  The definition of a varsity boat is putting together the fastest combination of athletes on a team, and racing them as a boat.  This could be heavy weights, light weights, or a combination of both.  The desire amongst most of the coaches in Florida is to continue to push for the fastest events possible.  Put your fastest 8+ up against the next team's fastest 8+, and see who wins.  Then you race your next fastest 8+, and so on.  Novices and Lightweights give you a pool of athletes to draw from, but the whole idea is to fill the varsity ranks.  If your varsity boats aren't winning or placing in the State Champ's, your team structure is not working and you should not win the State Trophy.  Also, if you have the numbers to fill every event offered at States, and you can't win the points trophy with the revised points system, something is desperately wrong with your team.

 

Craig Sucich

 

-----Original Message-----
From: John E. McLain III [mailto:jemclainiii@...]
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2003 9:40 AM
To: cssucich@...; sburgess50@...; JFRANCIS2807@...; FSRA@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [FSRA] Points

I have not yet seen the revised point system.  Jamie, can you please send me a copy?  Reading between the lines I wonder if the revised point system is based on last year's results?  How long was the old system used? 

Second, as a shorter rower, I have to ask the question of what defines a premier event?  Not every sport is designed to reward the tallest and heaviest.  Are you saying that a legitimate lightweight crew should not be rewarded the same as a varsity boat just because of weight?  Doesn't happen in some other sports.

Realistically, the all points trophy is a team award, not a varsity award.  Certainly, there seems like a better chance of winning the all points trophy if you have alot of novices, but isn't that the point?  On another note, Winter Park was recognized for putting together excellent varsity boats and not winning the all points trophy did not detract from their accomplishments.

Please consider this message, not based on any particular school.  The message is that teams should be encouraged to put as many teams on the water as possible and it is good that athletes compete against each other in classifications, novice, freshman, lightweight, etc.

>From: "Sucich, Craig S."

>To: 'Steve Burgess' , JFRANCIS2807@..., FSRA@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: RE: [FSRA] Points

>Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2003 07:52:07 -0500

>

>The current point system rewards the largest team, not necessarily the

>fastest. The revised points system is being designed so that the fastest

>and most competitive team in Florida will win the all points trophy,

>regardless of how many athletes are on the team. This will force all the

>teams to focus on the premier (high point) events. Spreading yourself out

>in all the events to try and scoop up as many points as possible will be

>replaced by focusing the talent at the top. This will not penalize the

>large teams, and will only help those small teams that have their act

>together.

>

>As a former head coach of Lake Brantley and Edgewater (two of the larger

>programs in the state), I highly recommend revising the current system.

>

>Craig Sucich

>Vice President - FSRA

>

>

>iginal Message-----

>From: Steve Burgess [mailto:sburgess50@...]

>Sent: Saturday, August 09, 2003 12:17 AM

>To: JFRANCIS2807@...; FSRA@yahoogroups.com

>Subject: Re: [FSRA] Points

>

>

>

>I realize my viewpoint may appear biased since I'm a parent from a large

>crew (Lake Brantley) that won all points last year, but here it is anyway.

>

>The current points system allows a large club to gain an advantage towards

>the all points trophy and therefore promotes recruiting of more young people

>into crew sports. Hopefully, this is viewed by all parties as good for the

>individuals recruited into the healthy lifestyle imposed by this rigorous

>sport and good for the promotion of the sport of crew throughout the state.

>This positive aspect of promoting recruiting should not be taken lightly.

>At some time in the future, if enough young people are in crew, we may

>someday gain the recognition that will allow crew to become a state

>recognized and sponsored sport.

>

>The smaller clubs that win the premier events of Varsity 8, Varsity 4, etc.

>have the medals and bragging rights of winning those events. This is their

>reward and acknowledgement of their accomplishment in and of itself.

>Possibly, some of these smaller clubs will recruit harder for next season in

>order to enter more events and thereby have a better chance of winning the

>all points trophy. How is this system bad for crew as a whole? Yes, the

>current system allows a large club an advantage but only if the club can

>compete well in many events. If a large club does poorly in many events it

>most likely will not have sufficient points to win overall.

>

>Yes, the system does promote recruiting for crew and brings more young

>people to crew. I see this as a positive and not a negative. I don't

>believe we should artificially weight the points system in such a way that

>it makes it possible for a four boat crew to win states. In that case, why

>recruit when a distinct advantage may be had by cutting rowers to the best

>four boats and spending all coaching and equipment resources on those four

>boats? I think this weighted system will send the wrong message and will

>not be good for crew as a sport.

>

>At any rate, our points system should follow the national points system. I

>don't think we can go wrong if we follow the nationally recognized system

>and after all, Nationals will be held here in 2004. Anything else should be

>viewed as artificial weighting to give one "disadvantaged" group an

>advantage over another. Neither our society nor our young people need to

>experience that anymore than has already been imposed on them.

>

>Thanks for listening.

>Steve Burgess

>Lake Brantley Crew

>

>

>

>----- Original Message -----

>From: JFRANCIS2807@...

>To: FSRA@yahoogroups.com

>Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2003 10:44 PM

>Subject: [FSRA] Points

>

>Per a few requests I've attached a revised version of the point proposal. I

>forgot to include the sculling events but intentionally left out

>Lightweights in hopes that the fastest boats would be entered in the premier

>events. I realize that eliminating the lightweight category did not pass

>last year, so in that case light 8s & 4s would be equivalent to 2nd 8s & 4s.

>My reasoning behind a revised system is to try to give smaller programs who

>are competitive in the premier events the opportunity to make a showing at

>States.

>

>Jamie Francis

>Edgewater

>

>Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

>

>

>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>FSRA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

>

>

>

>Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service

> .

>

>

>

>Yahoo! Groups Sponsor

>

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>< DIV us.adserver.yahoo.com l?M="259395.3614674.4902533.1261774/D=egroupmai">>l/S=:HM/A=1524963/rand=938586554>

>

>Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

>

>

>To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:

>FSRA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

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FSRA:

I don't have the strongest emotions regarding a point trophy; however, I
would agree that some revision of ours is necessary. It seems to me that by
trying to design a point system that is all things to all people, we will
construct a confusing, inexplicable system. I would like to reach some
result that I can explain to forty 15-18 year olds  in under 20 seconds. If
it goes beyond that, its useless.

All the systems that have been proposed so far have merit, as do the
rationales behind them. Rather than move towards complexity, however, we
should try to return to simplicity.

This is not meant to be a  proposal, but one system that I have always liked
is the collegiate Men's Eastern Sprints. The point trophy is the  sum of the
1st 8+, 2nd 8+, and Frosh 8+. That's it.

Our underlying problem, that might need to be addressed prior to the point
system issue, is that we have a State Championships that is attempting to be
all things to all teams. We have to have eights, we have to have fours, we
have to have frosh, we have to have lights, we have to have sculling, and we
have to have a one day race. We have created a system that crowns (approx.)
24 State Champion boats. The more events that we have, the less value that
each one them holds. If we can simplify our regatta structure then our point
system will follow.

It seems that Craig's proposal, following Bram's of last summer, to have a
committee to study the State Championships AND its point system is very
necessary.

I hope that everyone's summer has been productive.

All the best,

Dan Newman

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----- Original Message -----

From: JFRANCIS2807@...

To: mkaminski@... ; tjmorganjr@... ; cssucich@... ; jemclainiii@... ; FSRA@yahoogroups.com ; sburgess50@...

Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 3:51 PM

Subject: Re: [FSRA] Points

A similar point system is used at Metro Cup.  I think there is a reason it isn't used more frequently.

Just more fuel for the fire.
First we need to answer what are we trying to reward the points trophy for,
which events, and then move on.

Matt



> If you have a look at the national rowing league site (www.nrl.org.uk)
> under there rules section you can see you they prioritise there
> points.
>
> The points awarded for a win in a race are calculated by
> mulitplying a score for the status of the race by the number of people
> in the crew.
> eg 15 x 9 for a high status race. In the NRL there is another
> multiplier for the standard of the regatta which does not appear to be
> relavent in this case.
>
> You may wish to add a mulitplier for the number of crews that actually
> turn up, so you have some reflection of how difficult the race is
> going to be to win.
>
> The efficiencey award may backfire if your regatta is aiming to keep
> its entries as high as possible, as clubs may decide not to send its
> less competitive crews.
>
> Alex Wilbey
> For your regatta you may also
>

Hello, Im a memeber of a small club in Miami and I've
been hearing alot of talk from the big club's point of
view and I thought maybe you wanted to hear some from
the smaller ones. I believe it is true that big clubs
have the advantage in points trophy in any way u look
at it because thats what points trophies were made for
big crews with good rowers, but if you want to please
the mayority of the clubs ( big and small) I believe
that there should be an effort trophy as well, like in
the Canadian Henly. That way the club with the most
trained rowers can have a good chance to get the
points trophy but also givin smaller clubs an effort
trophy ranked on how many rowers won something out of
the number of rowers they signed up.

Thanks.

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FSRA:

I agree with Dan Newman's assessment.  It's both simple and fair.  Your top 27
in each progarm against everyone else's.  If you can't boat 27 you wouldn't have
a chance anyway.  The mide-sized teams(20-30 of each gender) would have a better
shot than ever for the team title.  If the fourth and fifth boat members of the
very large teams have a problem with their race not "counting", tough!! They
need to work harder to get into one of their squads top three shells.

Mike Vertullo
WPHS - girls

-----Original Message-----
From: Dan Newman [mailto:dsnewman99@...]
Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 5:40 PM
To: cssucich@...; Brice.Crossley-1@...;
FSRA@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [FSRA] Points Again


FSRA:

I don't have the strongest emotions regarding a point trophy; however, I
would agree that some revision of ours is necessary. It seems to me that by
trying to design a point system that is all things to all people, we will
construct a confusing, inexplicable system. I would like to reach some
result that I can explain to forty 15-18 year olds  in under 20 seconds. If
it goes beyond that, its useless.

All the systems that have been proposed so far have merit, as do the
rationales behind them. Rather than move towards complexity, however, we
should try to return to simplicity.

This is not meant to be a  proposal, but one system that I have always liked
is the collegiate Men's Eastern Sprints. The point trophy is the  sum of the
1st 8+, 2nd 8+, and Frosh 8+. That's it.

Our underlying problem, that might need to be addressed prior to the point
system issue, is that we have a State Championships that is attempting to be
all things to all teams. We have to have eights, we have to have fours, we
have to have frosh, we have to have lights, we have to have sculling, and we
have to have a one day race. We have created a system that crowns (approx.)
24 State Champion boats. The more events that we have, the less value that
each one them holds. If we can simplify our regatta structure then our point
system will follow.

It seems that Craig's proposal, following Bram's of last summer, to have a
committee to study the State Championships AND its point system is very
necessary.

I hope that everyone's summer has been productive.

All the best,

Dan Newman

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----- Original Message -----

From: Dan Newman

To: cssucich@... ; Brice.Crossley-1@... ; FSRA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 5:39 PM

Subject: [FSRA] Points Again

FSRA:

I don't have the strongest emotions regarding a point trophy; however, I
would agree that some revision of ours is necessary. It seems to me that by
trying to design a point system that is all things to all people, we will
construct a confusing, inexplicable system. I would like to reach some
result that I can explain to forty 15-18 year olds  in under 20 seconds. If
it goes beyond that, its useless.

All the systems that have been proposed so far have merit, as do the
rationales behind them. Rather than move towards complexity, however, we
should try to return to simplicity.

This is not meant to be a  proposal, but one system that I have always liked
is the collegiate Men's Eastern Sprints. The point trophy is the  sum of the
1st 8+, 2nd 8+, and Frosh 8+. That's it.

Our underlying problem, that might need to be addressed prior to the point
system issue, is that we have a State Championships that is attempting to be
all things to all teams. We have to have eights, we have to have fours, we
have to have frosh, we have to have lights, we have to have sculling, and we
have to have a one day race. We have created a system that crowns (approx.) 
24 State Champion boats. The more events that we have, the less value that
each one them holds. If we can simplify our regatta structure then our point
system will follow.

It seems that Craig's proposal, following Bram's of last summer, to have a
committee to study the State Championships AND its point system is very
necessary.

I hope that everyone's summer has been productive.

All the best,

Dan Newman

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
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Jamie Francis
Algebra Instructor
Head Coach/Women's Varsity Coach - Crew
Portable 32
407-835-4900 x4671

-----Original Message-----
From: F Patrick Casey [mailto:fpcasey@...]
Sent: Wednesday, August 13, 2003 5:50 PM
To: cssucich@...; Brice.Crossley-1@...; FSRA@yahoogroups.com; Dan Newman
Subject: Re: [FSRA] Points Again

All.

 

I couldn't agree more with Dan that the points is only a small part of the problem... as a few of us discussed privately, the real objective needs to be getting as many schools to row 8's as possible.

 

I have attached a spreadsheet that pretty clearly outlines what last year's outcome would result in given the suggested changes.  The one submitted by "Slick" by far looks the best.  It rewards winning crews, it rewards rowing 8's, and it allows us to add points into a structure where we can add petite finals to the 8's events.

 

As a state, as coaches, me must get over our desire to let every rower win a medal in some event (2nd, 3rd 4's), and instead push ourselves to be better coaches, and our athletes to be better oarsmen and compete in 8's.  There isn't a team that I can think of that does not have 8 men or women on it... row the 8's, compete and work to improve.  The success won't come overnight, but it nobody will ever progress by rowing a bunch of 4's at a state championship...large or small program!

 

Look over the points proposals, but please begin thinking about ways to create some excitement to row the 8's (V, JV, 3rd, Fresh, and yes, maybe even LW...)

 

Looking forward to seeing everyone at the meeting... and no doubt emailing much before then.

-PC

----- Original Message -----

From: Dan Newman

To: cssucich@... ; Brice.Crossley-1@... ; FSRA@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Tuesday, August 12, 2003 5:39 PM

Subject: [FSRA] Points Again

FSRA:

I don't have the strongest emotions regarding a point trophy; however, I
would agree that some revision of ours is necessary. It seems to me that by
trying to design a point system that is all things to all people, we will
construct a confusing, inexplicable system. I would like to reach some
result that I can explain to forty 15-18 year olds  in under 20 seconds. If
it goes beyond that, its useless.

All the systems that have been proposed so far have merit, as do the
rationales behind them. Rather than move towards complexity, however, we
should try to return to simplicity.

This is not meant to be a  proposal, but one system that I have always liked
is the collegiate Men's Eastern Sprints. The point trophy is the  sum of the
1st 8+, 2nd 8+, and Frosh 8+. That's it.

Our underlying problem, that might need to be addressed prior to the point
system issue, is that we have a State Championships that is attempting to be
all things to all teams. We have to have eights, we have to have fours, we
have to have frosh, we have to have lights, we have to have sculling, and we
have to have a one day race. We have created a system that crowns (approx.) 
24 State Champion boats. The more events that we have, the less value that
each one them holds. If we can simplify our regatta structure then our point
system will follow.

It seems that Craig's proposal, following Bram's of last summer, to have a
committee to study the State Championships AND its point system is very
necessary.

I hope that everyone's summer has been productive.

All the best,

Dan Newman

_________________________________________________________________
STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months FREE* 
http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail



Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FSRA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.

Check the FSRA website at: http://www.FloridaRowing.org

To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
FSRA-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com



Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.