>>> "Rob Hughes" <RHughes@...> 1/11/2006 1:50:24 PM >>>
Ellen,
I appreciate your passion and dedication to crew. Over time it is possible that the F-M Crew program will grow, and as it grows parents will certainly be involved in the conversation about what the program looks like.
There are, however, a couple of facts I would like to clarify as we move forward in this conversation. First, the costs per athelete for ice hockey are somewhere in the vicinity of $500- dollars per athelte, not $4000-. Second, the costs per athlete for crew are in the vicinity of $850- per athlete. After the co-pay of $250- has been factored in, crew is at the high end of the scale in terms of overall costs per student, for any program we that offer in either the athletic or co-curricular domain.
See you next week.
Rob Hughes
________________________________
From: Ellen Oleary [mailto:OLEARYE@...]
Sent: Wed 1/11/2006 10:08 AM
To: FMHS_Crew@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Rob Hughes
Subject: Spring season - program growth
Hi all,
First of all, let me start out by saying that what follows is NOT intended
as a criticism of either Head Coach David Schnall or Rob Hughes, they have
both been very supportive of the program. They have worked very hard to make many positive things happen with the crew club and are constrained by our budget.
But I really need to raise a red flag about a numbers crunch that we are
about to experience that I do not think we are prepared to deal with.
After the first year of the program, Crewster officers got together with
school officials and came up with a broad 5 year plan for the growth of the
program. This plan saw growth over time up to 100 students.
Unfortunately, we have been told by Rob Hughes that our numbers this year are
limited to 80 students. Coach Schnall has indicated that he sees this as
breaking out to 2 eight boats (20 students) divided equally among novice
boys, novice girls, varsity boys, varsity girls.
Let's talk about the girls. An 30% attrition rate has been mentioned for
first -> second year rowers. We have only had one year to base that on, so
I question whether that is statistically significant, but for the sake of
argument we will use it. Last year there were 22 novice girls. A 30%
attrition would mean that 15 of them will want to move up. Of our last year
varsity girls, I believe that 14 are definitely continuing. Plus I have
heard rumors of two older lacrosse girls planning to switch to crew. So we
in all probability will have 30 girls trying for 20 spots. These are not
girls who are tr ying on a whim. They have all devoted a tremendous amount
of their time to rowing last spring, plus most have done summer/fall or both
rowing seasons, plus most are doing winter training. Winter training is a
huge time commitment that precludes all other extra activities, like trying
out for a school play, science Olympiad, etc. Plus, doing winter training
is not even being on a team. It is taking a huge gamble of precious time
and money that you will make a team. What is it going to be like for the 10
dedicated girls who are told they cannot participate on their team? I would
think devastating might describe it.
What about the novices? Do we have any reason to think the turnout will be
less this year? One possible answer to the number crunch would be to limit
novices to one boat and allow three varsity boats. How do you feel about
that? What would have happened to your child if that had been the case when
they were a novice? But that would certainly avoid the severe funnel effect
we are going to have this year. With every year that passes, the program
will evolve to having a higher percentage of novices that are freshman. Our
current plan of 20 novices/20 varsity girls would have the breakout amount
12/11/10 grades to be 6-7 girls per grade, and then 20 freshmen. This seems
quite unfair. It could also lead to a weird situation where every other
year, it almost exclusively sophomores being cut. Would novices even do the team if they thought after all that work their opportunities would be so limited?
I do not think the boys will have the same issue this year due to the
demographic bulge that existed last year with a large number of seniors on
the team. But it is certainly possible that next year they will be faced
with a similar situation.
What we clearly need is a JV level for crew. Another possibility for the
girls is to have a lightweight program within the program. Lightweight is a
legitimate program for girls crew and they compete in both 4's and 8's at
states, Stotes and Nationals. During regular season they can compete
against regular varsity boats. I would go so far as to say that because
this is a legitimate category, not having it puts smaller girls at such a
disadvantage with few varsity spots that it amounts to unfairness toward a
category of the crew population.
How do we compare number-wise with other sports? I do not want to pick on
football (our school has a wonderful program that we can be proud of), but
the numbers for one sport for one sex are about 100, when you add up
freshman, JV and varsity team members. Compare that to our allotment of 80
slots for both boys AND girls.
I think it is in our in terest to think of our crew "team" as really six
teams. It should be novice, JV and varsity boys and the same for girls.
When you think of it as six teams, our numbers are on the low side. How
many boys and girls are on the six lacrosse teams?
What about costs? I think that crew cost per pupil is not too high. I
think $1000 per capita, but we also pay $250 toward the cost. Compare crew
to ice hockey, where the cost per pupil is over $4,000. I am not overly
comfortable with the mentality of school parent as consumer, but let's face
reality - you pay the same tax bill as the family whose ice hockey team
member is being covered by the school district for over $4,000. Which
expense is more legitimate?
Does crew take away from other sports? The "founders" of the program saw
crew as an opportunity made available to students who were not able to be on
the other sports teams - giving them an opportunity to represent their
school, to earn a varsity letter, and to engage in an activity that has
tremendous benefit to physicial fitness, and the personal growth that comes
from being a team member. Are other school sports now "short" students?
Absolutely not. These are new opportunities. Are the kids doing crew any
less deserving that other athletes? I do not think so.
Look at the tremendous success we have had in our short history. Our
athletes have performed wonderfully. They work as hard as any group of athletes at the school. They are very competitive and deserving of the opportunity they have had thus far.
We also can point to the power that crew experience has with the college
admissions offices. Last year we had seven students recruited into colleges
- no other sport at FM can come close to that! And the quality of the
schools was outstanding.< /DIV>
What are the constraints on growing the program? First and foremost, there is the
amount of money budgeted, as well as the number of buses available, equipment,
dockage and coaches.
Let's talk about buses. We have two time slots for daily practice, an
early and late slot. It is probably true that there is only one bus
available to us for the early timeslot, which is certainly limiting. But
for the later time slot, there should be lots of buses available, buses that
are done with elementary and late bus runs. Why not run two buses out for
the second practice time?
Money - it is up to us to advocate for a budget that will accomodate more
students. But there are ways to get creative and ways to cut certain costs.
Liverpool and Baldwinsville do same-day travel to places like Buffalo and
Saratoga - that gives a big savings on not paying the bus driver the extra
day and savings on hotels. Maybe we can decide to go that route to allow
for more kids.
Equipment, dock space, coaches - these are real issues, but if we approach
things creatively and with a passion and committment, we can make things
happen. The old saw "Where there is a will, there is a way" has been
demonstrated many times by us crew parents.
How many times in our very short history have we turned "No, that is not
possible" into "look what we have been able to do"?
To wrap it up, it is time for YOU to become an strong advocate for this
program. It is time for YOU to come to the next Crewster meeting, and the
next budget meeting in February. We may convene a special meeting to come
up with a game plan. While we cannot get our "conventional" budget for this
season and possibly next increased, we need to advocate for the next year.
We also can come up with creative solutions for this year and avoid a
horrible situation. We CAN do this if we have the commitment and passion.
I hope that if crew has been a positive experience for your child that you will be willing to help make it happen for others. I look forward to your involvement in this important initiative,
Ellen
I appreciate your passion and dedication to crew. Over time it is possible that the F-M Crew program will grow, and as it grows parents will certainly be involved in the conversation about what the program looks like.
There are, however, a couple of facts I would like to clarify as we move forward in this conversation. First, the costs per athelete for ice hockey are somewhere in the vicinity of $500- dollars per athelte, not $4000-. Second, the costs per athlete for crew are in the vicinity of $850- per athlete. After the co-pay of $250- has been factored in, crew is at the high end of the scale in terms of overall costs per student, for any program we that offer in either the athletic or co-curricular domain.
See you next week.
Rob Hughes
________________________________
From: Ellen Oleary [mailto:OLEARYE@...]
Sent: Wed 1/11/2006 10:08 AM
To: FMHS_Crew@yahoogroups.com
Cc: Rob Hughes
Subject: Spring season - program growth
Hi all,
First of all, let me start out by saying that what follows is NOT intended
as a criticism of either Head Coach David Schnall or Rob Hughes, they have
both been very supportive of the program. They have worked very hard to make many positive things happen with the crew club and are constrained by our budget.
But I really need to raise a red flag about a numbers crunch that we are
about to experience that I do not think we are prepared to deal with.
After the first year of the program, Crewster officers got together with
school officials and came up with a broad 5 year plan for the growth of the
program. This plan saw growth over time up to 100 students.
Unfortunately, we have been told by Rob Hughes that our numbers this year are
limited to 80 students. Coach Schnall has indicated that he sees this as
breaking out to 2 eight boats (20 students) divided equally among novice
boys, novice girls, varsity boys, varsity girls.
Let's talk about the girls. An 30% attrition rate has been mentioned for
first -> second year rowers. We have only had one year to base that on, so
I question whether that is statistically significant, but for the sake of
argument we will use it. Last year there were 22 novice girls. A 30%
attrition would mean that 15 of them will want to move up. Of our last year
varsity girls, I believe that 14 are definitely continuing. Plus I have
heard rumors of two older lacrosse girls planning to switch to crew. So we
in all probability will have 30 girls trying for 20 spots. These are not
girls who are tr ying on a whim. They have all devoted a tremendous amount
of their time to rowing last spring, plus most have done summer/fall or both
rowing seasons, plus most are doing winter training. Winter training is a
huge time commitment that precludes all other extra activities, like trying
out for a school play, science Olympiad, etc. Plus, doing winter training
is not even being on a team. It is taking a huge gamble of precious time
and money that you will make a team. What is it going to be like for the 10
dedicated girls who are told they cannot participate on their team? I would
think devastating might describe it.
What about the novices? Do we have any reason to think the turnout will be
less this year? One possible answer to the number crunch would be to limit
novices to one boat and allow three varsity boats. How do you feel about
that? What would have happened to your child if that had been the case when
they were a novice? But that would certainly avoid the severe funnel effect
we are going to have this year. With every year that passes, the program
will evolve to having a higher percentage of novices that are freshman. Our
current plan of 20 novices/20 varsity girls would have the breakout amount
12/11/10 grades to be 6-7 girls per grade, and then 20 freshmen. This seems
quite unfair. It could also lead to a weird situation where every other
year, it almost exclusively sophomores being cut. Would novices even do the team if they thought after all that work their opportunities would be so limited?
I do not think the boys will have the same issue this year due to the
demographic bulge that existed last year with a large number of seniors on
the team. But it is certainly possible that next year they will be faced
with a similar situation.
What we clearly need is a JV level for crew. Another possibility for the
girls is to have a lightweight program within the program. Lightweight is a
legitimate program for girls crew and they compete in both 4's and 8's at
states, Stotes and Nationals. During regular season they can compete
against regular varsity boats. I would go so far as to say that because
this is a legitimate category, not having it puts smaller girls at such a
disadvantage with few varsity spots that it amounts to unfairness toward a
category of the crew population.
How do we compare number-wise with other sports? I do not want to pick on
football (our school has a wonderful program that we can be proud of), but
the numbers for one sport for one sex are about 100, when you add up
freshman, JV and varsity team members. Compare that to our allotment of 80
slots for both boys AND girls.
I think it is in our in terest to think of our crew "team" as really six
teams. It should be novice, JV and varsity boys and the same for girls.
When you think of it as six teams, our numbers are on the low side. How
many boys and girls are on the six lacrosse teams?
What about costs? I think that crew cost per pupil is not too high. I
think $1000 per capita, but we also pay $250 toward the cost. Compare crew
to ice hockey, where the cost per pupil is over $4,000. I am not overly
comfortable with the mentality of school parent as consumer, but let's face
reality - you pay the same tax bill as the family whose ice hockey team
member is being covered by the school district for over $4,000. Which
expense is more legitimate?
Does crew take away from other sports? The "founders" of the program saw
crew as an opportunity made available to students who were not able to be on
the other sports teams - giving them an opportunity to represent their
school, to earn a varsity letter, and to engage in an activity that has
tremendous benefit to physicial fitness, and the personal growth that comes
from being a team member. Are other school sports now "short" students?
Absolutely not. These are new opportunities. Are the kids doing crew any
less deserving that other athletes? I do not think so.
Look at the tremendous success we have had in our short history. Our
athletes have performed wonderfully. They work as hard as any group of athletes at the school. They are very competitive and deserving of the opportunity they have had thus far.
We also can point to the power that crew experience has with the college
admissions offices. Last year we had seven students recruited into colleges
- no other sport at FM can come close to that! And the quality of the
schools was outstanding.< /DIV>
What are the constraints on growing the program? First and foremost, there is the
amount of money budgeted, as well as the number of buses available, equipment,
dockage and coaches.
Let's talk about buses. We have two time slots for daily practice, an
early and late slot. It is probably true that there is only one bus
available to us for the early timeslot, which is certainly limiting. But
for the later time slot, there should be lots of buses available, buses that
are done with elementary and late bus runs. Why not run two buses out for
the second practice time?
Money - it is up to us to advocate for a budget that will accomodate more
students. But there are ways to get creative and ways to cut certain costs.
Liverpool and Baldwinsville do same-day travel to places like Buffalo and
Saratoga - that gives a big savings on not paying the bus driver the extra
day and savings on hotels. Maybe we can decide to go that route to allow
for more kids.
Equipment, dock space, coaches - these are real issues, but if we approach
things creatively and with a passion and committment, we can make things
happen. The old saw "Where there is a will, there is a way" has been
demonstrated many times by us crew parents.
How many times in our very short history have we turned "No, that is not
possible" into "look what we have been able to do"?
To wrap it up, it is time for YOU to become an strong advocate for this
program. It is time for YOU to come to the next Crewster meeting, and the
next budget meeting in February. We may convene a special meeting to come
up with a game plan. While we cannot get our "conventional" budget for this
season and possibly next increased, we need to advocate for the next year.
We also can come up with creative solutions for this year and avoid a
horrible situation. We CAN do this if we have the commitment and passion.
I hope that if crew has been a positive experience for your child that you will be willing to help make it happen for others. I look forward to your involvement in this important initiative,
Ellen