I've been a Browns and Indians fan since I was a fetus. Our last
Championship, I was 3... so needless to say I don't remember it. All
I want before I die is to see a coach wearing brown/orange to smile
to the cameras as he lifts the magnificent Stanley Cup, no wait...
Lombardi Trophy above his head. The pain and anguish us Browns fans
endure cannot be measured by any means yet known to mankind. Now we
have a beer company thinking they're cute by having referees throw
flags on us in our personal lives, I don't know how much more I can
take. And, to top it off we have McNabb's soup-can warming-up mom
reminding us of John (beat Cleveland then SUCK in the super bowl)
Elway. Yes, fellow dawgs.... GOD REALLY DOES HATE CLEVELAND.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...
maybe next year.

Crennel could be Browns next coach


By Howard Ulman / Associated Press

BOSTON -- The head of a group that helps minority
candidates said Friday he had a "very
encouraging" conversation with the Cleveland
Browns about Romeo Crennel's chances of becoming
head coach.

"They said that his interview was excellent, that
the owner was thoroughly impressed with him, that
they liked him a whole lot," said John Wooten,
chairman of the Fritz Pollard Alliance.

Crennel, defensive coordinator of the New England
Patriots, will coach in the AFC championship game
Sunday in Pittsburgh against the Steelers.

Two other assistants still in the playoffs,
Philadelphia offensive coordinator Brad Childress
and Pittsburgh offensive line coach Russ Grimm
also were interviewed. None of the three can be
hired until his team is eliminated.

The Browns also interviewed Terry Robiskie, their
interim coach who went 1-4 after Butch Davis
resigned.

Wooten said he called the Browns after Crennel's
interview, his customary follow-up with minority
candidates to see if the team had any
recommendations about how the candidate can
improve for future interviews.

"They said, "'No,' that he was outstanding,"
Wooten told The Associated Press in a telephone
interview from his home outside Dallas. "I said,
'So we can conclude he's in excellent position?'
and they said, 'Yes, he's an excellent
candidate.' We also know they like other people."


On Sunday, Childress will coach in the NFC title
game against Atlanta before Crennel and Grimm
coach from opposite sidelines in the AFC game.

Wooten was an offensive guard with the Browns
from 1959 to 1967. That team became the Baltimore
Ravens in 1996 and a new Browns franchise began
in 1999. He's also held front office positions
with Philadelphia and Baltimore.

He said he last talked with Browns president John
Collins on Wednesday night.

The Browns have not spoken publicly about each
candidate's chances. The Patriots were en route
to Pittsburgh on Friday night and did not
immediately return a call seeking comment.

Crennel, 57, is in his fourth season as the
Patriots defensive coordinator after one season
in that position with the Browns. He has been an
assistant on four Super Bowl champions - in the
1986 and 1990 seasons with the New York Giants
and the 2001 and 2003 seasons with the Patriots.

He also interviewed for the San Francisco 49ers
head coaching job that went to Baltimore
defensive coordinator Mike Nolan.

Crennel's agent, Joe Linta, said Friday he had
not spoken with Browns officials since the
interview about two weeks ago with Collins,
Browns owner Randy Lerner and general manager
Phil Savage. Last year, Crennel interviewed with
several teams, including Buffalo, Oakland,
Chicago and Oakland. The previous season he spoke
with San Francisco about the job that went to
Dennis Erickson

"One of the problems (in getting hired) is you
have to be a hot guy and for years he never had
the benefit of the press backing him," Linta
said. "After a couple of Super Bowls and the way
(the Patriots) played, the guy couldn't hide
anymore."

The Browns could make an announcement as soon as
Sunday night.

Wooten said he last spoke with Crennel on Tuesday
or Wednesday..

"I just told him that I heard tremendous things
out of Cleveland. Just keep on doing what you're
doing," Wooten said. "It's more meaningful for me
for him to come in as a champion."



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i am already in love with this guy. trained under ozzie, and wants to
not make the lerners better but wants the browns to become a pride
again. damn wouldnt that be great to be cheering for our Browns again
this time of year. well mr. savage you got me on your side. if you
want to hear his first press conference on january 7th go to


http://www.clevelandbrowns.com/news_room/video/rmconsole.php?
t=video&f=05_01_07_savage_phil_video.rm

it is a damn good interview. please football gods grant him and us
the browns faithful a great future.

in the interview he talks about being a browns fan and even reading
books by Terry Pluto including false start which i think should be
definite reading material for anyone in the browns staff.

I don't remember anyone anyone mentioning Terry Pluto's book "False
Start: How the Browns Were Set Up to Fail" so I thought I'd mention
it to anyone who hasn't yet heard about it. The book covers the
period from Art Modell's decision to leave Cleveland through the
2003 season.  Unlike the other books of Pluto that I have read there
is little that is bitter/sweet here; Its mostly bitter.  Pluto is
one ticked off man about the raw deal Cleveland got not only
regarding the move but how the NFL screwed Cleveland over in
creating the new franchise.  Nor is he all that happy with Policy
and Clarke.  And while not offering his opinion regarding Chris
Palmer's coaching abilities he portrays Palmer has an eminently
decent man who got shafted by the Browns.

Interspersed in the book are letters he has received from fans
dealing with subjects like why they continue to remain loyal.  Just
before the end he includes some riddles that aren't particularly
funny or clever but do drive home his fundamental point.  For
example, Do you know why the NFL doesn't give Akron a pro football
team?  Its because then Cleveland would want one too.

At roughly 160 pages its an easy and fast read.  However, unlike
some of Pluto's other books you will not finish it feeling all warm
and fuzzy inside.

Please no Terry robiskie.The Browns deserve
better.Enough suffering, we dont need another 5 yrars
of terrible football.
--- dactar <dactar@...> wrote:

> Robiskie gets his interview with Browns
>
> NFL.com wire reports
>
> CLEVELAND (Jan. 10, 2005) -- Browns interim coach
> Terry Robiskie thinks he has done enough to keep
> the job on a permanent basis.
>
> Robiskie met with team owner Randy Lerner,
> president John Collins and general manager Phil
> Savage in New York to interview for the position
> that became open when Butch Davis resigned.
>
> Robiskie has the backing of the players, who have
> been outspoken in supporting him. But Cleveland
> went 4-12 this season and struggled on offense
> with Robiskie as coordinator.
>
> The Browns lost four straight after Robiskie took
> over for Davis, but he inspired the players to
> win the final game of the season and snap a
> nine-game losing streak.
>
> "I firmly believe that I did all I could do. It
> was a tough, tough situation to take over,"
> Robiskie said a day after the Browns beat
> Houston.
>
> Robiskie is the fourth candidate interviewed by
> the Browns, joining New England defensive
> coordinator Romeo Crennel, Philadelphia offensive
> coordinator Brad Childress and Pittsburgh
> offensive line coach Russ Grimm.
>
> The other three candidates still are working for
> their teams in the playoffs, which could delay a
> decision.
>
> Savage said the Browns are willing to wait until
> after the Super Bowl, if necessary, to hire the
> right candidate.
>
> The final call on a coach will be Lerner's, but
> Savage will have a major role in the decision.
>
> "If we find the right guy quickly, we'll probably
> go ahead and do something," Savage said last
> week. "Right now, I don't think there is a
> specific timeline."
>
> The Browns could find themselves in competition
> with San Francisco for a coach. The 49ers fired
> coach Dennis Erickson and dismissed general
> manager Terry Donahue last week. 49ers owner John
> York interviewed Crennel on Jan. 8 in Boston,
> with both sides saying the conversation went
> well.
>
>
> AP NEWS
> The Associated Press News Service
>
>
> =====
> "Tail End Charlie In Purple Heart Box"
> dactarRadio:
>
http://launch.yahoo.com/lc/?rt=0&rp1=0&rp2=1217939753
>
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>
>
>
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The NFL brass has to be happy with the way the Browns are conducting
the coach search, interviewing at minimum 2 minority coaches.
Another one they might want to talk to is former Oakland Raider Hall
of Fame T & coach Art Shell. If can't land Russ griim to shore up
the most problem with the team and that's the OL. If they can't
block and move the DL and LB's off the ball you can't run. And if
they can't pass block, it doesn't matter who the QB and WR's & TE's
are, you can't effectively throw it either.

--- In ClevelandBrownsClub@yahoogroups.com, dactar <dactar@y...>
wrote:
> Robiskie gets his interview with Browns
>
> NFL.com wire reports
>
> CLEVELAND (Jan. 10, 2005) -- Browns interim coach
> Terry Robiskie thinks he has done enough to keep
> the job on a permanent basis.
>
> Robiskie met with team owner Randy Lerner,
> president John Collins and general manager Phil
> Savage in New York to interview for the position
> that became open when Butch Davis resigned.
>
> Robiskie has the backing of the players, who have
> been outspoken in supporting him. But Cleveland
> went 4-12 this season and struggled on offense
> with Robiskie as coordinator.
>
> The Browns lost four straight after Robiskie took
> over for Davis, but he inspired the players to
> win the final game of the season and snap a
> nine-game losing streak.
>
> "I firmly believe that I did all I could do. It
> was a tough, tough situation to take over,"
> Robiskie said a day after the Browns beat
> Houston.
>
> Robiskie is the fourth candidate interviewed by
> the Browns, joining New England defensive
> coordinator Romeo Crennel, Philadelphia offensive
> coordinator Brad Childress and Pittsburgh
> offensive line coach Russ Grimm.
>
> The other three candidates still are working for
> their teams in the playoffs, which could delay a
> decision.
>
> Savage said the Browns are willing to wait until
> after the Super Bowl, if necessary, to hire the
> right candidate.
>
> The final call on a coach will be Lerner's, but
> Savage will have a major role in the decision.
>
> "If we find the right guy quickly, we'll probably
> go ahead and do something," Savage said last
> week. "Right now, I don't think there is a
> specific timeline."
>
> The Browns could find themselves in competition
> with San Francisco for a coach. The 49ers fired
> coach Dennis Erickson and dismissed general
> manager Terry Donahue last week. 49ers owner John
> York interviewed Crennel on Jan. 8 in Boston,
> with both sides saying the conversation went
> well.
>
>
> AP NEWS
> The Associated Press News Service
>
>
> =====
> "Tail End Charlie In Purple Heart Box"
> dactarRadio:  http://launch.yahoo.com/lc/?rt=0&rp1=0&rp2=1217939753
> http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/ClevelandBrownsFootball/
>
>
>
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Robiskie gets his interview with Browns

NFL.com wire reports

CLEVELAND (Jan. 10, 2005) -- Browns interim coach
Terry Robiskie thinks he has done enough to keep
the job on a permanent basis.

Robiskie met with team owner Randy Lerner,
president John Collins and general manager Phil
Savage in New York to interview for the position
that became open when Butch Davis resigned.

Robiskie has the backing of the players, who have
been outspoken in supporting him. But Cleveland
went 4-12 this season and struggled on offense
with Robiskie as coordinator.

The Browns lost four straight after Robiskie took
over for Davis, but he inspired the players to
win the final game of the season and snap a
nine-game losing streak.

"I firmly believe that I did all I could do. It
was a tough, tough situation to take over,"
Robiskie said a day after the Browns beat
Houston.

Robiskie is the fourth candidate interviewed by
the Browns, joining New England defensive
coordinator Romeo Crennel, Philadelphia offensive
coordinator Brad Childress and Pittsburgh
offensive line coach Russ Grimm.

The other three candidates still are working for
their teams in the playoffs, which could delay a
decision.

Savage said the Browns are willing to wait until
after the Super Bowl, if necessary, to hire the
right candidate.

The final call on a coach will be Lerner's, but
Savage will have a major role in the decision.

"If we find the right guy quickly, we'll probably
go ahead and do something," Savage said last
week. "Right now, I don't think there is a
specific timeline."

The Browns could find themselves in competition
with San Francisco for a coach. The 49ers fired
coach Dennis Erickson and dismissed general
manager Terry Donahue last week. 49ers owner John
York interviewed Crennel on Jan. 8 in Boston,
with both sides saying the conversation went
well.


AP NEWS
The Associated Press News Service


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Phil Savage accepts offer to be Browns GM


By TOM WITHERS, AP Sports Writer

CLEVELAND (AP) - Phil Savage has accepted an
offer to be general manager of the Cleveland
Browns, leaving Baltimore for a struggling AFC
North rival, a team official told the Associated
Press on Wednesday.

Savage, who served as the Ravens' director of
player personnel the past two seasons, only has
to work out some financial details to finalize
his contract before taking over the Browns, who
went 4-12 last season, the source said speaking
on the condition of anonymity.

Savage was expected to arrive in Cleveland on
Thursday to sign the deal.

"We don't anticipate any problems," said the
source, who added Savage could be introduced at a
press conference Thursday.

A phone message left for Savage's agent, Neil
Cornrich, was not immediately returned.

Considered one of the NFL's top talent
evaluators, the 39-year-old Savage is returning
to the Browns, who gave him his start in the NFL
in 1991 as a defensive assistant under
coordinator Nick Saban. Savage was on Saban's
staff for three seasons before moving into the
team's scouting department.

With Baltimore, Savage's keen eye for quality
players helped the Ravens draft nine Pro Bowlers,
including Ray Lewis, Jonathan Ogden, Jamal Lewis,
Peter Boulware and Ed Reed, in eight years. He
was also successful in signing some undrafted
free agents, who helped Baltimore win a Super
Bowl title in 2001.

Savage took over as the Ravens personnel director
in 2003.

The Browns haven't had a general manager since
returning to the league in 1999 as an expansion
team. Butch Davis, who resigned as coach on Nov.
30, had full control of football operations in
Cleveland.

Owner Randy Lerner wants to have a more
traditionally structured front office, where the
GM handles most personnel matters, leaving the
coach to handle on-the-field responsibilities.

Now that they have their GM, the Browns can focus
on finding a head coach.

On Tuesday, the club interviewed Philadelphia
Eagles offensive coordinator Brad Childress. The
Browns have interviews planned this week with
Pittsburgh assistant coach Russ Grimm and New
England defensive coordinator Romeo Crennel.

Next week, they'll interview Terry Robiskie, who
served as Cleveland's interim coach for the final
five games after Davis resigned. Savage will have
a pivotal role in selecting the Browns next
coach, who the club hopes to have by the end of
the month.

Savage had come close to leaving the Ravens
previously, interviewing for GM jobs with
Chicago, Miami and Jacksonville. There had been
speculation that he would reunite with Saban, who
recently joined the Dolphins after leaving LSU.


(Copyright 2005 by The Associated Press. All
Rights Reserved.)


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OH YEAH!!!!!!  Some time left....

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you DO know this is a browns forum right? LOL

univrsalchatter <nadine@...> wrote:

hey guys! i hate sending messages like this but i had to tell you! i
thought you might be interested. anywhoo.. you can vote your players
into this years Probowl by text messaging "NFL VOTE" to number
69847. then you can put in your picks. after that you can download
some NFL wallpaper for your phone!







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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

When four of Santa's elves got sick, and the
trainee elves did not produce
the toys as fast as the regular ones, Santa was
beginning to feel the
pressure of being behind schedule.

Then Mrs. Claus told Santa that her Mom was
coming to visit. This stressed
Santa even more.

When he went to harness the reindeer, he found
that three of them were about
to give birth and two had jumped the fence and
were out, heaven knows where.
More stress.

Then when he began to load the sleigh one of the
boards cracked, and the toy
bag fell to the ground and scattered the toys.
So, frustrated, Santa went
into the house for a cup of apple cider and a
shot of rum.

When he went to the cupboard, he discovered that
the elves had hidden the
liquor, and there was nothing to drink.

In his frustration, he accidentally dropped the
cider pot, and it broke into
hundreds of little pieces all over the kitchen
floor. He went to get the
broom and found that mice had eaten the straw end

of the broom.

Just then the doorbell rang, and irritable Santa
trudged to the door. He
opened the door, and there was a little angel
with a great big Christmas
tree. The angel said, very cheerfully, "Merry
Christmas," Santa. Isn't it a
lovely day? I have a beautiful tree for you.
Where would you like me to
stick it?"

And so began the tradition of the little angel on

top of the Christmas tree.



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hey guys! i hate sending messages like this but i had to tell you! i
thought you might be interested. anywhoo.. you can vote your players
into this years Probowl by text messaging "NFL VOTE" to number
69847. then you can put in your picks. after that you can download
some NFL wallpaper for your phone!

Well, damn, what am I going to do with all this pink paper?

    As many of you know already Butch Davis is history!!

    My sweetie, Brenda, called me to let me know that he resigned.
You'd think someone told me that a relative died the way I responded.
It was relief and satisfaction that I wasn't alone in my frustration.
To know that he "made" the right call for once is a relief to me and
the orgnization. But I think we got bigger issues to deal with than
having to worry about whether this man got all his marbles together
when it comes to game calling and control.

    Don't get me wrong I don't have anything personal against the man.
I'd sit down and have a drink with him at a pub anytime. But I think
he made some bonehead mistakes and kept his distance from the fans.
That's what hurt the team and his tenure.


     So I should be mourning the end of yet another tenure and hope he
and his family can reflect on his time in C-town with some reservation
and insight. While he does this why don't you guys join me in using
this pink crap for confetti...lets celebrate today because tommorow
we'll die...by the Patriots.

Ed

--- In ClevelandBrownsClub@yahoogroups.com, jay and megan dresselhaus
<jayandmegan03@y...> wrote:
>
> Well said,
>
>  Once again were stuck hoping for losses and draft picks , only this
year the losses are even more important cause they might usher out
butch davis and 4 years of pitiful football .so keep your fingers
crossed and keep hopin for them losses!
>
> wow thats sad.
>
> totall1965 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>     Okay, I am as patient as many folks on the planet. I'm willing to
> give a person a chance to work things out and get it right till you
> can say, "Man, it's good to know they made a great effort!"
>
>      But four years??
>
>     I'm done.
>
>      I can't take any more of Butch Davis' excuses or lack of insight;
> I can't take another positive spin on such real issues. I'm tired of
> the lack of control both on and off the field. In short, at least in
> my mind, the Davis' era in Browns nation is over.
>
>      Which brings me to my idea I'd like to see spread throughout
> Browns nation.
>
>       Since the powers that be don't want to do the job we, as fans,
> know needs to be done for the sake of the team; since they want to
> avoid  what the rest of the league knows need to be done I think it's
> high time to send a message to the Browns front office:
>
>     Send a pink piece of paper care of Butch Davis!
>
>      It may be the only way he'll know the Browns nation has fired him
> as head coach of the team and that the rest of the orgination should
> get with the program. If they don't the next best way to send a
> message is simple: don't pay for season tickets.
>
> My two cents.
>
> Ed
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
> Get unlimited calls to
>
> U.S./Canada
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>
>
>
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> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Terry Robiskie bio box

Associated Press


A look at Terry Robiskie, named interim coach of
the Cleveland Browns following Butch Davis'
resignation.

NAME - Terry Robiskie

AGE-BIRTH DATE - 50; Nov. 12, 1954, in New
Orleans.

COLLEGE: Four-year letter winner as a running
back at LSU; Southeastern Conference MVP in 1976.

NFL COACHING EXPERIENCE: Browns offensive
coordinator 2004; Browns wide receivers coach
2001-03; Washington Redskins assistant coach
1994-2000, interim head coach for three games in
2000 (1-2 record); Los Angeles Raiders offensive
coordinator 1989-93; Raiders tight end coach
1988; Raiders assistant special teams coach
1985-87; Raiders assistant running backs coach
1982-84.

FAMILY - Wife, Cynthia; three sons, Brian, Andrew
and Kyle.

QUOTE: "He picked a hell of a week to make this
decision," joked Robiskie, referring to Davis'
resignation coming as the Browns prepare to face
the Super Bowl champion New England Patriots.


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What about the interim coach, Robiskie?  The players relate to him.  We need
someone the players want to play hard for.

Bob Young

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jason Silverthorne" <supersilvie@...>
To: <ClevelandBrownsClub@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2004 7:42 PM
Subject: Re: [Cleveland Browns Club] na na na hey hey goodbye!


>
>
> Let's give Urban Meyer a try, which would keep him from going to ND. Two
> wins for the price of one!
>
> dactar <dactar@...> wrote:> akron and talk to  Mr TIM FLOSSIE
> !!!!!!!  he,s
>> a  great coach and a smart one too !!!!!!
>
>  Anyone else have any ideas?  I suggest David
> Guynn, he is uniquely qualified.
>
>
>
> d

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=1934933

Some of you may be disappointed, but we don't like Steelers fans here
anyway.

Let's give Urban Meyer a try, which would keep him from going to ND. Two wins
for the price of one!

dactar <dactar@...> wrote:> akron and talk to  Mr TIM FLOSSIE !!!!!!! 
he,s
> a  great coach and a smart one too !!!!!!

   Anyone else have any ideas?  I suggest David
Guynn, he is uniquely qualified.



d

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

whats john cooper up to these days?

dactar <dactar@...> wrote:> akron and talk to  Mr TIM FLOSSIE !!!!!!! 
he,s
> a  great coach and a smart one too !!!!!!

   Anyone else have any ideas?  I suggest David
Guynn, he is uniquely qualified.



d

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Well said,

  Once again were stuck hoping for losses and draft picks , only this year the
losses are even more important cause they might usher out butch davis and 4
years of pitiful football .so keep your fingers crossed and keep hopin for them
losses!

wow thats sad.

totall1965 <no_reply@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



     Okay, I am as patient as many folks on the planet. I'm willing to
give a person a chance to work things out and get it right till you
can say, "Man, it's good to know they made a great effort!"

      But four years??

     I'm done.

      I can't take any more of Butch Davis' excuses or lack of insight;
I can't take another positive spin on such real issues. I'm tired of
the lack of control both on and off the field. In short, at least in
my mind, the Davis' era in Browns nation is over.

      Which brings me to my idea I'd like to see spread throughout
Browns nation.

       Since the powers that be don't want to do the job we, as fans,
know needs to be done for the sake of the team; since they want to
avoid  what the rest of the league knows need to be done I think it's
high time to send a message to the Browns front office:

     Send a pink piece of paper care of Butch Davis!

      It may be the only way he'll know the Browns nation has fired him
as head coach of the team and that the rest of the orgination should
get with the program. If they don't the next best way to send a
message is simple: don't pay for season tickets.

My two cents.

Ed




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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

> akron and talk to  Mr TIM FLOSSIE !!!!!!!  he,s
> a  great coach and a smart one too !!!!!!

   Anyone else have any ideas?  I suggest David
Guynn, he is uniquely qualified.



d

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and as an umpire would  say  YOOOOOOOOOOOOUUUR   OUT ! god  must be
a browns fan !!!!  and as far as a new  head coach, well come to
akron and talk to  Mr TIM FLOSSIE !!!!!!!  he,s a  great coach and a
smart one too !!!!!!

I think that everyone is frustrated.  I know
that I am.






d

>     Okay, I am as patient as many folks on the
> planet. I'm willing to
> give a person a chance to work things out and

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Okay, I am as patient as many folks on the planet. I'm willing to
give a person a chance to work things out and get it right till you
can say, "Man, it's good to know they made a great effort!"

      But four years??

     I'm done.

      I can't take any more of Butch Davis' excuses or lack of insight;
I can't take another positive spin on such real issues. I'm tired of
the lack of control both on and off the field. In short, at least in
my mind, the Davis' era in Browns nation is over.

      Which brings me to my idea I'd like to see spread throughout
Browns nation.

       Since the powers that be don't want to do the job we, as fans,
know needs to be done for the sake of the team; since they want to
avoid  what the rest of the league knows need to be done I think it's
high time to send a message to the Browns front office:

     Send a pink piece of paper care of Butch Davis!

      It may be the only way he'll know the Browns nation has fired him
as head coach of the team and that the rest of the orgination should
get with the program. If they don't the next best way to send a
message is simple: don't pay for season tickets.

My two cents.

Ed

Recently, Yahoo has been giving me shit about
sending too many emails per hour and since I've
recently 'inherited' another BROWNS list, I am
going to stop posting news articles to this one.
The list that I've inherited is at this address:
http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/ClevelandBrownsFootball/

   I will continue posting there....





Bark Hard!
d

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Martin, Brown forge friendship
By Pat McManamon, Editor
November 18, 2004


Listen close and the voice of John Facenda - the
guy in the older version of NFL Films - booms
through the background.

The subjects: All-time great Browns running back
Jim Brown and Jets running back Curtis Martin.

"Theirs is a brotherhood forged on the
battlefield of mud and sweat and desire, a
friendship bonded by yards gained among the
modern- day gladiators.

"It started with arm wrestling, and continues
with chess ... "

Chess?

"We can sit and play chess for six or seven
hours," Martin said as his New York Jets team
prepared for Sunday's game against the Browns.

Such is the relationship between Brown and
Martin. They share achievement and chess - and
respect. When Martin passed Brown to move into
seventh place on the all-time rushing list, Brown
shrugged.

"He's a player for all times,'' Brown said from
his home in Los Angeles. "He'd be great in any
era, respected in every era. People overlook him.
He's a man of all seasons and he has the respect
and dignity that goes with longevity."

Suffice it to say that Martin is a guy who could
have played in Brown's era. He was originally
drafted by New England, and when he started as a
rookie turned away trash-talkers by telling them
"God bless you."

He doesn't gyrate or celebrate like some other
players these days, all he does is run - and run
well.

Martin has rushed for 12,653 yards in his 10-year
career, and is 82 yards shy of moving ahead of
Bettis (who is still playing) and into sixth
place on the all-time list (behind Emmitt Smith,
Payton, Barry Sanders, Eric Dickerson and Tony
Dorsett).

Barring injury, he will become the second player
in NFL history to start his career with 10
consecutive 1,000-yard rushing seasons.

Yet when the all-time great backs are mentioned,
Martin's name rarely comes up. Heck, when the
great backs of today are mentioned, Martin's name
isn't always mentioned.

"That's what happens when you don't self-proclaim
yourself and do all that crazy stuff," Bettis
said.

"I think the world of the NFL but different
people see things in different ways," Martin
said. "I may score a touchdown and just put the
ball down and go sit on the bench and then you
see Terrell (Owens) who may celebrate.

"I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
He's not breaking the rules and I don't have a
problem with it."

His coach, Herman Edwards, said the most
demonstrative he's ever seen Martin after a score
has been to spike the ball.

"He's just a classy guy," Edwards said. "Like you
tell your kids when they start playing Pop
Warner, ‘When you score a touchdown, act like
you've been there before.' He has been there a
lot of times, so I think he'd waste his energy if
he started doing all those dances."

Martin grew up in a poor area of Pittsburgh, but
had strong influence from his mother, who raised
him with strong values. It shows in the way he
plays and the way he gives back - Martin is one
of the most community-oriented players on his
team.

"When you have those things squared away,
generally your outlook on life is a lot
brighter," Edwards said. "He came from a hard
background. He appreciates everything he has
accomplished and he also gives back. He feels
that's important to do. That's why he is a
special individual."

The friendship with Brown dates back to when the
two met at a wedding on a Caribbean island a few
years ago. Martin, impressed with Brown's work on
and off the field, started talking with the
all-time great.

"We had many conversations and in those
conversations he showed a lot of maturity and
wisdom for a young man," Brown said. "He's very
spiritual. He has a great love and respect for
his mother, because she was there with him.

"He's very down to earth and really low key in a
sense for having appreciation for what he does.
He's not a showboat."

At one point, the conversation turned to an
offbeat sport.

"We actually arm-wrestled and he beat me in arm
wrestling - and I think he was something like 58
at the time," Martin said. "I think we both have
a great deal of respect for each other. I have a
lot of respect for him and I'm always looking for
wisdom and he can relate to what I'm going
through."

Arm wrestling?

"I thought he was a lot older than I was and he
was talking about how strong he was and he said
‘Put your arm up there,'" Martin said. "The guy
is strong. I couldn't believe it."

They've since kept in touch, and have spent hours
at a time playing chess. Martin said he uses
chess as a way to communicate with and learn from
Brown.

"It's just a built-in sense of wisdom that you
can glean from (him)," Martin said. "We're both
very active in the community and doing things for
charity - helping people like inner city groups
and things like that. He has a lot of good advice
on all of those things as well as dealing with
life off the field.

"He's just filled with wisdom and I just like to
ask questions of people that I know have been
through what I'm approaching."

Martin did not feel awe at meeting Brown, just
respect.

"I'm not a big football fan, period," he said.
"But I respect people and he just happens to be
one of those guys that I have a great deal of
respect for."

The feeling, obviously, is mutual.

"Being an older person," Brown said. "I have a
lot of respect for the young men, especially when
they respect the game and carry themselves the
right way."


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'86 Browns kept fighting
By Steve King, Associate Editor
November 19, 2004


The Browns appeared to be finished in their 1986
AFC divisional playoff game against the New York
Jets on Jan. 3, 1987 at old Cleveland Stadium.

Even the players felt that way.

"I thought it was over. I really, truly thought
it was over," said Hanford Dixon, the Browns' Pro
Bowl cornerback at the time.

"Yeah, we had Bernie Kosar, and with him, it was
never really over. You always had a chance with
him. He was that good of a quarterback. But even
with all that, I was afraid it was over."

The Browns' magical ride through the 1986 season
- one that became the talk of the town - appeared
to be at an end. Following an interception by
Jerry Holmes, who would later be the first
secondary coach of the re-born Browns, the
underdog Jets took a 20-10 lead on Freeman
McNeil's 25-yard touchdown run with 4:14
remaining.

The Jets, who visit Cleveland Browns Stadium on
Sunday, rejoiced. The Browns either hung their
heads or stood with their hands on their hips,
trying to figure out what was going on in their
first home playoff game in six years.

"The thing I remember about that game is that we
were fighting for our lives," Dixon said. "And we
didn't think we'd be in a dogfight.

"I mean, we respected the Jets. We knew they had
to be good or they wouldn't have made the
playoffs. But we thought we better than they
were. And to look up at that big scoreboard late
in the game and see that we were 10 points down,
was tough to take."

It was tough to take for the fans as well.

"A lot of them left and went home," Dixon said.
"They gave up. They thought it was over as well."


The Browns appeared to have wasted a golden
opportunity to win a winnable game at home and
advance to the AFC Championship Game for the
first time. They looked to be headed in the right
direction, owning a 10-7 second-quarter lead on a
37-yard TD pass from Kosar to Herman Fontenot and
a 38-yard field goal by Mark Moseley, who had
been coaxed out of retirement when place kicker
Matt Bahr blew out his knee making a tackle on a
kickoff return against the Pittsburgh Steelers a
month and a half before.

However, the Jets got two field goals of their
own, of 46 and 37 yards by Pat Leahy, and added
that to the McNeil run to go up by 10. All this
with a backup quarterback in Ken O'Brien. Starter
Pat Ryan had to leave the game early with a groin
injury.

But if it was one thing those 1986 Browns had, it
was grit. They had been in tough situations all
year and didn't give up. They always found a way
to make a play just when they needed to make it.
It was the trademark of the team, which endeared
it all the more to the strong work-ethic Browns
fans.

They started the season 1-2, then got back on
track with two straight three-point wins, the
second being the Browns' first triumph ever at
Pittsburgh's Three Rivers Stadium.

After being upset at home by Green Bay, they went
to Minnesota and won by three again with their
special teams doing most of the work. After
losing on the road to the Los Angeles Raiders,
they beat the Steelers at home in overtime (when
Bahr got hurt) and swept the season series from
Pittsburgh for the first time since 1969. That
began a string of five straight wins - the first
two by a combined total of just seven points - to
end the season.

The Browns saved their best, though, for last -
or next-to-last, as it were. They went to
Cincinnati, their chief rival that year in the
Central Division and a team that had humbled them
30-13 in Cleveland earlier in the season in a
nationally televised Thursday night game, and
captured the division crown by thoroughly
dominating the Bengals to the tune of 34-3.

Now, though, the Browns needed to reach down
extra deep to find some moxie, for this was the
playoffs - this was their season - and they were
in serious, serious trouble. They needed to score
a lot of points quickly, but they had done
nothing offensively all day that provided any
hope they would be able to do it. The Jets had
stymied Kosar and Co.

They appeared to be in even more trouble on their
ensuing drive following the McNeil touchdown
after Kosar had misfired on a third-and-24 pass
from the Cleveland 18. But the Browns got a first
down at the 33 when Jets defensive end Mark
Gastineau, who had been harassing Kosar all day
and then taunting the fans in the Dawg Pound, was
whistled for a blatantly silly
roughing-the-quarterback penalty.

That seemed to awaken the Browns - get them
jump-started. The perseverance and toughness that
had carried them all season long finally came to
the surface and the Browns began to play to win
instead of playing not to lose, as they had done
all afternoon to that point.

They completed their 68-yard drive when Kevin
Mack scored from a yard away to make it 20-17.

But there was only 1:53 left. For the Browns to
have any chance at all to win, they needed to get
the ball back right away. And to do that, they
could not allow any first downs or else the game
would be over. They had to force the Jets to go
three-and-out on their next possession. That
happened as the Browns stuffed three straight
runs and, after using their two remaining
timeouts to stop the clock, forced a punt with 51
seconds left.

By this time, fans who had left the game but were
still listening to it on the radio as they headed
home, were racing back into the Stadium when they
heard the comeback in progress. This was no easy
task hurrying anywhere in downtown Cleveland that
day. Though Stadium work crews had done a good
job, the grounds around the Stadium were
extremely icy and snow-covered as the result of a
storm the previous day. Men could be seen pulling
their slip-sliding wives and/or children back
down West Third Street, risking life and limb
with every step.

We said this season was magical, and we said that
when the Browns all year had had to make a play,
they did so. And the biggest play of the year
came when Kosar hit Webster Slaughter for 37
yards to the New York 5.

But Slaughter was wasting precious time
celebrating his big catch. He didn't seem to
realize there were just 25 seconds left.

The Browns were out of timeouts, so they needed
to run one more play - a throwaway pass - to stop
the clock and allow Moseley to come on to try the
game-tying field goal.

With Browns radio play-by-play man Nev Chandler
imploring Slaughter to line up, he finally did
so. But then Kosar almost made a fatal error.
This was before the rule had been added to allow
quarterbacks to spike the ball to stop the clock.
They still had to throw the ball away and make it
look good so as to avoid an intentional grounding
penalty.

Kosar, who would pass for 469 yards, the largest
total in NFL playoff history, threw a floater
into the back corner of the end zone that almost
wasn't far enough out of bounds. It was nearly
intercepted, and you could actually hear a
collective gasp from the now full again stands
when the ball barely eluded the grasp of Jets
defensive back Russell Carter.

Moseley then came on and booted the 22-yard field
goal with only 11 seconds left, allowing the
Browns to miraculously tie the game at 20 by
scoring 10 points in a span of just 1:42 at the
end.

That forced overtime, which would roll over into
two overtimes. Late in the first OT, the Browns
had a great chance to win when they moved to the
New York 5. All Moseley had to do was kick a
chip-shot 23-yard field goal.

He missed.

But he was good on the second try at the
game-winner, kicking a 27-yarder with 12:58 left
in the second OT on a first-and-goal play from
the New York 9 to provide a 23-20 win and end the
third-longest game in NFL history, 77 minutes, 2
seconds.

The game, which started at 12:30 p.m. and lasted
until exactly 4:41, was a marathon, and it was
finally over. Everybody who played in it -
really, everybody who even watched it, at home or
in person at the stadium - was left exhausted and
completely drained.

But the fans didn't want to get home. Before the
Browns said their prayer in the locker room,
coach Marty Schottenheimer told his team to
listen.

"You could still hear the people cheering for
us," he pointed out.

What they had just witnessed was starting to sink
in.

"To pull out that game in double-overtime after
it seemed as if we had lost, was just
unbelievable. It shows what kind of pride we had
on that team," said Dixon, whose team returned to
the Stadium the next week and, with a trip to the
elusive first Super Bowl on the line, lost in
overtime by that same 23-20 score to the Denver
Broncos.

"It just left us all numb. To fight and come back
- and to do it at home - was special. It was
really an emotional time. We were already a close
team, but that brought us even closer together.
Wins such as that one cause that to happen."

Then Dixon stopped for a moment.

"You know, even now, almost 20 years later,
chills still go through my body thinking about
the sequence of events that allowed us to win
that game," he said.

It's that way for anyone who saw that game.
They'll never forget it.


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Holcomb makes most of first action
By Steve King, Associate Editor
November 19, 2004


It looked like old times.

There Kelly Holcomb was, coming off the bench in
the fourth quarter of last Sunday's 24-10 loss to
Pittsburgh and firing tight, accurate spirals all
over the place.

To Frisman Jackson for 16 yards on the first
play.

To Jackson again for five yards on the next play.


To Antonio Bryant for 12 yards two plays later.

To Jackson once more for 24 yards on the
following play.

And two plays later to tight end Aaron Shea for
seven yards and something the Browns had not had
all day, a touchdown.

Eight plays in all on the drive covering 64
yards, and just like that - in just 2:51 - the
Browns had driven to a score. And the man leading
the charge was Holcomb, who was seeing his first
action of the regular season as he finished the
day 5-of-9 passing for 64 yards, one TD and an
interception.

"It was good to get back out there," Holcomb said
the other day as the Browns kept working toward
Sunday's visit by the New York Jets. "When you
sit there the whole day - when you sit there the
whole day for eight games before that - and never
get to play, you gather a lot of rust."

But Holcomb is good at shaking off rust. When it
comes to running in off the bench and igniting a
spark in a struggling offense, there's no one in
the league better than Holcomb. He's a great
relief man. If this were baseball, he'd be
Mariano Rivera.

He said it's been tough to stay focused when he
knew in his heart of hearts there was little
chance he'd be used, but he added, "You still
have to be ready, because you never know. You
have to prepare each week as if you're the
starter."

He said he was not ready to play in the 1997
season finale for the Indianapolis Colts - "In my
head, I was already packed and headed back home
to Tennessee" - and he paid dearly for it. He
vowed never to let that happen again, and it
hasn't.

In addition, it seemed fitting that the opponent
was the Steelers as Holcomb was re-introduced to
Browns fans last Sunday. When he was first
introduced to them, back on Jan. 5, 2003, it was
these same Steelers whom Holcomb passed dizzy,
completing 26-of-43 passes for a staggering 429
yards, the third-highest total in NFL playoff
history, three TDs and a pick.

The only person who stopped Holcomb that day was
the referee Bill Carollo firing off the final
gun. When the game ended, he had passed the
Browns down the field again to the Pittsburgh 30
as they tried to score again and force overtime
in a 36-33 loss.

The performance was so impressive that it
eventually caused Browns coach Butch Davis to
remove Tim Couch as the starter midway through
the 2003 preseason and replace him with Holcomb.

And last Sunday's performance, especially with
the fact it came in a season when the offense has
struggled so much, certainly caught the attention
of everyone as well. That includes Davis, who
appeared - at least initially - to be very
intrigued by what he saw.

He said he replaced starter Jeff Garcia with
Holcomb early in the fourth quarter to "give the
team a spark" and because Garcia "had been hit a
lot." It was the first time Garcia had been taken
out of a game all year.

After the game, on his postgame show on the
Browns radio network, Davis seemed to hesitate
and be unclear as to who would start at
quarterback against the Jets. But in his postgame
press conference with the entire media just
minutes later, the coach said Garcia was his man
and he reiterated that point even more strongly
on Monday.

Holcomb remembers the horrors of the 2003
quarterback controversy between him and Couch,
making a miserable 5-11 finish even more
miserable for everybody involved. It tore the
team apart, and that's the last thing Holcomb
wants to do again with the 3-6 Browns perilously
close to traveling the same path as the 2003
club.

"They brought Jeff in here to be the starting
quarterback, and he's the starting quarterback.
Period," said Holcomb, who came to he Browns as
an unrestricted free agent from the Colts in
2001.

But that doesn't mean Holcomb would refuse a
chance to start here - or somewhere else - again.
On the contrary.

"I want to play football," he said. "That's what
you're in this game for. Once you're up at a high
level and then you get knocked down as I was, you
want to get up to that high level again. That's
what drives me every single day. It has to be
what drives me.

"I've always thought I was capable of being a
starter in this league. I still do, even after
what happened last year. I'd like to have another
chance."

What happened last year is well-documented. The
magic that Holcomb and the offense showed against
the Steelers in that playoff game never really
materialized on a consistent

basis in 2003 for a variety of reasons. There
were pockets of good play, though.

Holcomb said the Arizona game, when he threw for
392 yards and three touchdowns and misfired on
only six passes all day in 35 attempts, "was as
well as we've played offensively since I've been
here."

He also said the offense "began to gel in the
fourth quarter" at San Francisco when the Browns
rallied against Garcia and the 49ers for a 13-12
win in week 3. But even though Holcomb finished
the game and in fact threw the winning TD pass to
Andre Davis in the closing minute, it was
discovered afterwards that the quarterback had
broken his fibula.

He missed only three games with the injury. Did
he come back too soon?

"Oh, I don't know," Holcomb said. "I do know that
I'm a competitor and that I wanted very much to
be back out there.

"I'm not making excuses - I'm not that type of
player - but when I watching tape now of those
games when I returned, I can see that I wasn't
moving as well as I was before I got hurt. I've
never been able to move that great, but I was
moving even worse then. I told everybody I was
100 percent, but I wasn't.

"I figured, though, that the leg had gotten as
good as it was going to get for the rest of the
season, so I might as well go out there and play.
When you get a starting position, you don't want
to give it up, no matter how it happens."

Only in that Cardinals game did Holcomb resemble
for the rest of the season the man who had
torched the Steelers in that playoff game. What
needs to be mentioned, however, is that the
offense, especially the line, suffered so many
injuries that would have made it tough for any
quarterback - even if his name had been Graham,
Nelsen, Sipe or Kosar - to be successful.

Things hit rock bottom for Holcomb, and his
season essentially was ended, when he was
intercepted on two straight possessions late in
the first half by Aeneas Williams in a 26-20 loss
to St. Louis on Monday Night Football. He was
removed and didn't play at all in the second half
of that game or in the two contests that
followed.

Couch, who was eventually released this past
offseason, never really figured into the Browns'
plans for 2004. Davis was ready to go back to
Holcomb when Garcia was cut by the 49ers and
became a free agent. The Browns jumped at the
chance to sign the three-time Pro Bowler to be
their starter, and Holcomb never saw the light of
day again until last Sunday.

So Holcomb is back where he was from 1996 until
that playoff game - that is, on the bench,
waiting for another opportunity.

Holcomb's contract is up at the end of the
season. Whether he comes back or not remains to
be seen. He said he wants to stay a Brown.

"I love playing in Cleveland and I love where I
live in Avon Lake," he said. "My kids have all
kinds of friends in the neighborhood and in
school. It's not easy when you've got kids to
just pick up and move, but at the same time, I
understand how this business works and how you're
forced to move sometimes. You have to go where
you're wanted, though, wherever that is."

He added, "You have to believe in yourself. You
have to have confidence in yourself. And I do. I
believe in my heart that if I ever get a second
chance to start, it will be different."


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