That's your opinion and you are entitled to it as I am entitled to mine (that's what makes this country so great).  Let's just agree to disagree.

Kristin

--- On Fri, 7/18/08, Ray Espinoza <dodgerfan34@...> wrote:

From: Ray Espinoza <dodgerfan34@...>
Subject: [BlueBallsandStrikes] Re: [DodgerNation] Re: [DODGERS] Steroids chat
To: DodgerNation@yahoogroups.com, "Blue Balls and Strikes" <BlueBallsandStrikes@yahoogroups.com>, "DODGERS" <DODGERS@yahoogroups.com>, "Dodgers Group" <Los_Angeles_Dodgers@yahoogroups.com>, "Think Blue" <think_blue@yahoogroups.com>
Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 4:21 PM

1) Torre was dead wrong about that: It is nice to bury your head in the sand and pretend like the problem never happened. That is exactly what Torre and others who said the same thing were hoping to have happen. Let's pretend there wasn't a problem then and now, then it will all go away. I don't subscribe to this idea.   2) What we believe and what we can prove are two different things. Once again, those who have been proven guilty are guilty. Those who can't be proven guilty, are innocent. It's like saying 'Ray, other have murdered and just because we haven't found any evidence saying you committed a murder, your still guilty." Makes no sense.     myspace.com/ rayespinoza Official Page of Ray Espinoza   --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Kristin <prettyrose33@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristin <prettyrose33@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [DodgerNation] Re: [DODGERS] Steroids chat To: DodgerNation@ yahoogroups. com Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 3:25 PM     I like what Joe Torre said about it.  What's in the past is in the past, there is nothing that can be done to change it.  All we can do is concentrate on the now and in the future.  What I am saying is that I am more than certain that there were other players using something in some form or another for an extra edge and weren't caught or listed in some report or finger pointed at.  I believe that probably 80% of all players in the 90's at least tried something, let it be steroids, HGH, creatine, andro, sudafed, other forms of amphetamines, cortasone, whatever.  Heck, I know this is the wrong sport and all but Terry Bradshaw admitted to taking steroids back in the 70's.  He never had to say a word about it.  Great player, Hall of Famer, so why tell?  There are a lot of players that we don't even know about.   Kristin --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Ray Espinoza <dodgerfan34@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Ray Espinoza <dodgerfan34@ yahoo.com> Subject: [DodgerNation] Re: [DODGERS] Steroids chat To: DODGERS@yahoogroups .com, "Blue Balls and Strikes" <BlueBallsandStrikes @yahoogroups. com>, "Dodger Nation" <DodgerNation@ yahoogroups. com>, "Dodgers Group" <Los_Angeles_ Dodgers@yahoogro ups.com>, "Think Blue" <think_blue@yahoogro ups.com> Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 3:08 PM So how does it work then? Those who have done steroids are given a clean slate by the commish by the promise of not pursuing it. Then those who are not guilty are now guilty and assumed that because they are not caught, they are guilty???? This sounds a bit irrational.     myspace.com/ rayespinoza Official Page of Ray Espinoza   --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Kristin <prettyrose33@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristin <prettyrose33@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [DODGERS] Re: The Save (Goose Gossage) To: DODGERS@yahoogroups .com Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 1:02 PM     I have to believe that with the Mitchell Report and all, that probably just about everyone who has ever played ball has dabbled in something, let it be sudafed for a high, HGH, steroids, other prescription drugs, even Viagra.  Just because your name isn't listed with others to me, doesn't mean that you are clean too.  It just means that you covered your tracks better than the other person did.   Kristin --- On Fri, 7/18/08, Dan Green <marathon_dan@ yahoo.com> wrote: From: Dan Green <marathon_dan@ yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [DODGERS] Re: The Save (Goose Gossage) To: DODGERS@yahoogroups .com Date: Friday, July 18, 2008, 9:07 AM I believe the point is, comparing players from different eras is difficult at best...  I think we all agree that hitting numbers from teh late 90s and into the early part of this century will be considered somewhat suspect... and with what's gone on with Gagne and Clemens, some of the pitching also...  so to compare Pedro Martinez and Sandy Koufax is a dubious endeavor at best...  Pedro was a great pitcher,,,and Sandy certainly has acheived legendary status,,but to try and compare numbers and accomplishments is very hard...  Dan Kristin <prettyrose33@ yahoo.com> wrote:     I can't imagine voting someone in and then kicking someone out in the process.  It makes absolutely no sense!  There are players in the Hall that I have never seen play but that doesn't belittle their accomplishments.  To compare Pedro Martinez and Sandy Koufax is crazy too.  Just because Pedro pitched in what you call the juiced era should not belittle Sandy and his accomplishments. 5 no hitters and he retired at the young age of 30.  Amazing to me and I never saw him pitch.   Kristin --- On Thu, 7/17/08, zoioz <zoioz@yahoo. com> wrote: From: zoioz <zoioz@yahoo. com> Subject: [DODGERS] Re: The Save (Goose Gossage) To: DODGERS@yahoogroups .com Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 6:06 PM There are alot of people that probably does not deserve to be in the Hall of Fame. I, for one, think when they vote in somebody, somebody needs to be kicked out. Although one big flaw in this logic is that you can't reasonably compare players cross generations. For example, Koufax vs. Pedro, who was greater? IMHO, Pedro was greater because he dominated in an offensive(juiced) era compare to Koufax's peak years in a pitcher friendly era. But are you going to kick out Koufax when Pedro goes in? Not likely. --- In DODGERS@yahoogroups .com, Ray Espinoza <dodgerfan34@ ...> wrote: > > I don't think Gossage deserved to be in the Hall of Fame at all!!! He was one of the few players that talked his way.....no.. ..whine and cried his way, into the hall of fame. It was very pathetic to watch him go on t.v. and radio and listen to him whine and cry about his career. > > > > > myspace.com/ rayespinoza Official Page of Ray Espinoza > > > --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Mike K. <mlkaplan43@ ...> wrote: > > From: Mike K. <mlkaplan43@ ...> > Subject: [DodgerNation] Re: [DODGERS] The Save > To: DodgerNation@ yahoogroups. com > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 1:08 PM > > > > > > > Gossage probably would have been inducted sooner, if not for the save > stat. His dominance was obscured by his (relatively) low save total. > > --- In DodgerNation@ yahoogroups. com, Ray Espinoza <dodgerfan34@ ...> wrote: > > > > The Save is a the dumbest category, right up there with the HOLD and > the Blown Save. All of them are useless stats. I am sure guys like > Sutter, Goose and ECK are happy because it got them into the Hall of > Fame......and Fingers too..... > > > > --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Mike K. <mlkaplan43@ ...> wrote: > > > > From: Mike K. <mlkaplan43@ ...> > > Subject: [DodgerNation] Re: [DODGERS] Saito > > To: DodgerNation@ yahoogroups. com > > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 11:55 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > A relief pitcher earns a blown save if he gives up a lead at any point > > during the game, if it's a "save situation." It's possible to have > > more than one blown save in a game. However, a pitcher can only get a > > save if he finishes the game. > > > > Another reason why I think the save rule is stupid. > > > > --- In DodgerNation@ yahoogroups. com, Ray Espinoza <dodgerfan34@ > ....> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I don't think it really matters how many blown saves he has in the > > past, it's all about what is going on from right here, right now. The > > Dodgers are going to miss Saito but I really like this Broxton guy and > > I think he is going to be great in this new role. > > > > > > myspace.com/ rayespinoza Official Page of Ray Espinoza > > > > > > > > > --- On Thu, 7/17/08, Kristin <prettyrose33@ ...> wrote: > > > > > > From: Kristin <prettyrose33@ ...> > > > Subject: Re: [DODGERS] Saito > > > To: DODGERS@yahoogroups .com > > > Date: Thursday, July 17, 2008, 11:22 AM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yep, 15 blown saves unless they are counting leads in the 8th > > inning that he has either allowed the other team to tie or lead > > because I don't remember him ever coming into close that many games. > > I remember the one on Mother's Day this year that he allowed like 5 > > runs if I am not mistaken. Is that considered a blown save even if he > > came in the 8th? > > > > > > Kristin > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Stacey Falero <stacyfalero@ sbcglobal. net> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Stacey Falero <stacyfalero@ sbcglobal. net> > > > Subject: Re: [DODGERS] Saito > > > To: DODGERS@yahoogroups .com > > > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 9:01 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > It was on dodgers.com. It is in the article that has the title > > "Saito to miss 6 weeks". Sometimes you can blow a save and not get the > > loss, especially if the other team just ties it up. He has 5 saves in > > 21 save opportunities, it states. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > He only has seven losses, so I am not sure if having 15 blown saves > > is accurate. > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Stacey Falero <stacyfalero@ sbcglobal. net> > wrote: > > > > > > From: Stacey Falero <stacyfalero@ sbcglobal. net> > > > Subject: Re: [DODGERS] Saito > > > To: DODGERS@yahoogroups .com > > > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 7:25 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I thought that too....my son just told me that Broxton has 5 career > > saves and 15 blown saves in his career....tell me this isn't so. > > > > > > Ray Espinoza <dodgerfan34@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I have 100% faith in Broxton, in fact, I think Broxton is the closer > > of the future. This is his chance to show what he can do and that he > > can step up and take over that position. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > myspace.com/ rayespinoza Official Page of Ray Espinoza > > > > > > > > > --- On Wed, 7/16/08, Kristin <prettyrose33@ yahoo.com> wrote: > > > > > > From: Kristin <prettyrose33@ yahoo.com> > > > Subject: [DODGERS] Saito > > > To: dodgers@yahoogroups .com, dodgersbigblueclub@ yahoogroups. com, > > ladodgerbestfans@ yahoogroups. com > > > Date: Wednesday, July 16, 2008, 1:10 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > What a way to start the second half...but I knew there had to be > > something wrong with Saito because he hasn't been like the Saito of > > old this season. > > > > > > Kristin > > > Injured Dodgers closer Saito out at least 6 weeks > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > LOS ANGELES (AP)—Dodgers closer Takashi Saito will be sidelined > > until at least late August with a sprained elbow ligament in his > > pitching arm.. > > > Saito, 38, was diagnosed Tuesday by team physician Neal ElAttrache, > > who has ruled out surgery for now. Saito is headed for the 15-day > > disabled list and will rehabilitate his right arm for six weeks, then > > be reevaluated, the team said. > > > He is 3-3 with a 2.18 ERA in 39 appearances. Saito has 17 saves in > > 20 chances. > > > General manager Ned Colletti said it is difficult to replace a closer. > > > "As far as trading for a closer, it's a lot like trying to acquire a > > shortstop—it' s a premium position and most teams don't carry an > > excess," Colletti said from the All-Star game in New York. > > > > > > Manager Joe Torre said Sunday that Jonathan Broxton would be the > > team's closer until further notice. But Torre was unsure who would > > take over for Broxton as setup man. > > > Broxton said he's ready for his new role. > > > "I just look at it like it's the eighth inning. I come out and get > > outs," Broxton said. "It's no different for me." > > > Saito, an All-Star last year, had his ninth-inning stint Saturday > > night against Florida cut short because of tightness in the elbow. > > > > > >