big city paranoid people? I grew up in a small town and also lived in very
isolated areas for more than a few of my 55 years, and had more stuff ripped
off there out in the middle of nowhere, than I ever have in my "big city"
(of 50,000 population). Sounds like a pretty ignorant remark to me. know
what they say about making ASSumptions. And why would I worry about my bike,
when its going to be with me the whole time? Engage brain before opening
mouth. LOL


>From: "mtbdirt1" <mtbdirt1@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Bikerpelli] Re: How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:25:14 -0000
>
>-to many big city paronoid people left our grand cherokee for the may
>trip and no problem hell your bike is the # 1 thing to worry about--
>In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "Barb Martin" <barbixy@...> wrote:
> >
> > so is there a locked gate or not? I'm confused now. I've got two people
> > answering emails sent to the same address.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...>
> > >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:07:02 -0600
> > >
> > >Okay, I was wrong 'bout the locked gate--maybe it just seemed like
>it 'cuz
> > >it seemed safe enough. Pay attention to Alex--He's Da Man!
> > >
> > >('Cept 'bout those fire ants ... ?)
> > >
> > >Stan
> > >
> > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
> > >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> > >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:08 AM
> > >   Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >
> > >
> > >   here is the message earlier from Stan, it indicates a locked
>gate...???
> > >
> > >   Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
>from
> > >the
> > >   public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked
>gate that
> > >is
> > >   posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
>better there
> > >   than a public area.
> > >
> > >   >From: "Alex Hearn" <alex@...<mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com>>
> > >   >Reply-To:
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >   >To:
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > >   >Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
> > >   >
> > >   >Hi Barb -
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an
>airport
> > >   >garage than a farm field. Still, I understand your concerns &
>respect
> > >if
> > >   >you'd like to park elsewhere.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was
>a week
> > >ago,
> > >   >in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off
>the back
> > >of
> > >   >their car. I do not know if the rack was locked. Never had any
>vehicle
> > >   >broken into. Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request
>that
> > >they
> > >   >do
> > >   >drive-bys. There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced &
>posted, but
> > >not
> > >   >gated. It is, however, patrolled by a few goats. And the fire
>ants can
> > >be
> > >   >vicious.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Alex Hearn
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >----------------------------------------------------------
> > >   >------------------------------
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >-----Original Message-----
> > >   >From:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> >[mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>]
>On
> > >   >Behalf Of Barb Martin
> > >   >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
> > >   >To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Hi Stan:
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their
>cars
> > >behind
> > >   >
> > >   >a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they
>would be
> > >left
> > >   >
> > >   >near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is
> > >reassuring
> > >   >
> > >   >because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just
>stealing
> > >my
> > >   >
> > >   >car outright. As well, having spent almost my entire life
>outdoors,
> > >I've
> > >   >
> > >   >seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is
> > >around
> > >   >
> > >   >because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is
>around.
> > >Its
> > >   >
> > >   >not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people
>everywhere.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
> > >   >population
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >and composition? Does grand junction have an airport? How far
>exactly
> > >from
> > >   >
> > >   >the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't
>locked
> > >   >behind
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term
>airport
> > >   >
> > >   >parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is
>usually less
> > >than
> > >   >
> > >   >ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in
>town to
> > >leave
> > >   >
> > >   >my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or
>something
> > >to
> > >   >the
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >trailhead.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford
>explorer,
> > >   >
> > >   >which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic
>hatchback, which
> > >is a
> > >   >
> > >   >very popular car with a high performance motor that gets
>40+mpg. The
> > >   >
> > >   >bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is
> > >because
> > >   >
> > >   >this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is
>in, I
> > >know I
> > >   >
> > >   >couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me
>blue book
> > >which
> > >   >
> > >   >wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it.
>Unfortunately,
> > >   >
> > >   >according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly
> > >stolen
> > >   >
> > >   >vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a
>large urban
> > >   >area
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it
>is where
> > >I
> > >   >
> > >   >live.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying
>it with
> > >   >canned
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a
>hammer and it
> > >   >
> > >   >breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
> > >   >
> > >   >personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the
>Auto Club
> > >guy.
> > >   >
> > >   >Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who
> > >didn't
> > >   >
> > >   >know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone
>wants to
> > >   >
> > >   >steal the car itself.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees"
>at a
> > >place
> > >   >
> > >   >like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're
> > >usually
> > >   >
> > >   >kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower
>wage just
> > >to
> > >   >
> > >   >do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage,
>doesn't mean
> > >   >
> > >   >they're a thief.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private
>property,
> > >behind
> > >   >a
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than
>leaving
> > >them
> > >   >in
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty
>light in any
> > >   >
> > >   >case, because I know there is always a certain amount of
>carrying of
> > >gear
> > >   >
> > >   >involved.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured
>my knee
> > >and
> > >   >
> > >   >hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the
>ride in
> > >   >
> > >   >September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The
>problem
> > >   >
> > >   >isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about
>other
> > >   >people,
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never
>releases,
> > >and
> > >   >
> > >   >it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are
>pretty
> > >good
> > >   >but
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >when I do, its not the best situation.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how
>many
> > >have
> > >   >
> > >   >signed up so far?
> > >   >
> > >   >I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be
>perfect...
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride
> > >forever.
> > >   >
> > >   >Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it
>beats any
> > >ride
> > >   >
> > >   >out there for scenery and experience.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides
>of 50+
> > >miles
> > >   >
> > >   >before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the
>distance
> > >for
> > >   >the
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
> > >   >
> > >   >Barb
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > >Reply-To:
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >   >
> > >   > >To:
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
> > >   >Concentrated
> > >   >
> > >   > >public parking areas
> > >   >
> > >   >tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known,
> > >easily
> > >   >
> > >   >cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with
>a local
> > >   >
> > >   >business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees
>that
> > >they
> > >   >
> > >   >can let their friends know there will be free access to certain
>cars
> > >for
> > >   >
> > >   >several days. Even private security employees play that game.
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is
>away from
> > >the
> > >   >
> > >   > >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a
>locked gate
> > >that
> > >   >is
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
>better
> > >there
> > >   >
> > >   > >than a public area.
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave
> > >anything
> > >   >of
> > >   >
> > >   > >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the
> > >steering
> > >   >
> > >   > >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why
>expend the
> > >   >
> > >   > >energy where there is little return or too much effort required?
> > >'Bout
> > >   >the
> > >   >
> > >   > >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private
>enclosed
> > >   >
> > >   > >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the
>cost of the
> > >   >trip
> > >   >
> > >   > >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's
> > >possible
> > >   >
> > >   > >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >Stan Hill
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >   >
> > >   > > From: Barb
> > >Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > To:
> >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
> > >   >
> > >   > > Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car
> > >unattended
> > >   >
> > >   > > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether
>there are
> > >   >other
> > >   >
> > >   > >cars
> > >   >
> > >   > > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me
>organizing this
> > >   >
> > >   > >trip,
> > >   >
> > >   > > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in
>a safe
> > >   >
> > >   > >place in
> > >   >
> > >   > > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and
>shuttle
> > >them
> > >   >
> > >   > >out
> > >   >
> > >   > > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
> > >   >
> > >   > >restaurant,
> > >   >
> > >   > > some place where people would be around to notice if there
>were any
> > >   >
> > >   > > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage
>parking,
> > >   >bike
> > >   >
> > >   > > shop parking lot, something.
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >From: "Stan Hill"
> > ><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com><mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Reply-To:
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >   >
> > >   > > >To:
> >
>
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpe\
lli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Barb,
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I
>answer. The
> > >   >
> > >   > >trip is
> > >   >
> > >   > > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of
> > >Grand
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed
>from
> > >   >
> > >   > >populated
> > >   >
> > >   > > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than
>anywhere
> > >   >else
> > >   >
> > >   > >you
> > >   >
> > >   > > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
> > >   >Bikerpelli
> > >   >
> > >   > > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school
>bus) brings
> > >   >you
> > >   >
> > >   > > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty
>easy! The
> > >   >
> > >   > >hardest
> > >   >
> > >   > > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your
>stuff for
> > >   >
> > >   > > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between
>your car
> > >   >and
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > >the
> > >   >
> > >   > > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Stan Hill
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >   >
> > >   > > > From:
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
>
>barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com><mailto:barbixy%40hotma\
il.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > > To:
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike
> > >
> > >
>
>rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%40yah\
oogroups.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
> > >   >
> > >   > > > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand
>Junction and
> > >   >leave
> > >   >
> > >   > > > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my
>vehicle in CO,
> > >   >and
> > >   >
> > >   > > > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > > thank you,
> > >   >
> > >   > > > Barb
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > __________________________________________________________
> > >   >
> > >   > > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
>
>http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us<http://www.reallivemoms.com/?\
ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us><http://www.reallivemoms.c<http://www.reallivemoms.c/>
> > >   >om/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >__________________________________________________________
> > >   >
> > >   >More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live
> > >Hotmail.
> > >   >
> > >
> > >
>
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tp://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio>
> > >   >n_HM_mini_2G_0507
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> >
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpe\
lli/>
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > Individual Email | Traditional
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> >
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/join<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bik\
erpelli/join>
> > >   >
> > >   > (Yahoo! ID required)
> > >   >
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> >
>
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> > >   >
> > >   >
> >
>
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0yahoogroups.com>
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> >
>
>Bikerpelli-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-unsubscribe%40yahoogro\
ups.com>
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
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> > >   >
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by the way, you're a bit late on the comment, the issue has already come and
gone... but thanks for your opinion ;-)


>From: "mtbdirt1" <mtbdirt1@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Bikerpelli] Re: How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Sun, 02 Sep 2007 02:25:14 -0000
>
>-to many big city paronoid people left our grand cherokee for the may
>trip and no problem hell your bike is the # 1 thing to worry about--
>In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "Barb Martin" <barbixy@...> wrote:
> >
> > so is there a locked gate or not? I'm confused now. I've got two people
> > answering emails sent to the same address.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...>
> > >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:07:02 -0600
> > >
> > >Okay, I was wrong 'bout the locked gate--maybe it just seemed like
>it 'cuz
> > >it seemed safe enough. Pay attention to Alex--He's Da Man!
> > >
> > >('Cept 'bout those fire ants ... ?)
> > >
> > >Stan
> > >
> > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
> > >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> > >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:08 AM
> > >   Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >
> > >
> > >   here is the message earlier from Stan, it indicates a locked
>gate...???
> > >
> > >   Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
>from
> > >the
> > >   public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked
>gate that
> > >is
> > >   posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
>better there
> > >   than a public area.
> > >
> > >   >From: "Alex Hearn" <alex@...<mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com>>
> > >   >Reply-To:
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >   >To:
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > >   >Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
> > >   >
> > >   >Hi Barb -
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an
>airport
> > >   >garage than a farm field. Still, I understand your concerns &
>respect
> > >if
> > >   >you'd like to park elsewhere.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was
>a week
> > >ago,
> > >   >in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off
>the back
> > >of
> > >   >their car. I do not know if the rack was locked. Never had any
>vehicle
> > >   >broken into. Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request
>that
> > >they
> > >   >do
> > >   >drive-bys. There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced &
>posted, but
> > >not
> > >   >gated. It is, however, patrolled by a few goats. And the fire
>ants can
> > >be
> > >   >vicious.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Alex Hearn
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >----------------------------------------------------------
> > >   >------------------------------
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >-----Original Message-----
> > >   >From:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> >
> >[mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>]
>On
> > >   >Behalf Of Barb Martin
> > >   >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
> > >   >To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Hi Stan:
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their
>cars
> > >behind
> > >   >
> > >   >a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they
>would be
> > >left
> > >   >
> > >   >near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is
> > >reassuring
> > >   >
> > >   >because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just
>stealing
> > >my
> > >   >
> > >   >car outright. As well, having spent almost my entire life
>outdoors,
> > >I've
> > >   >
> > >   >seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is
> > >around
> > >   >
> > >   >because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is
>around.
> > >Its
> > >   >
> > >   >not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people
>everywhere.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
> > >   >population
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >and composition? Does grand junction have an airport? How far
>exactly
> > >from
> > >   >
> > >   >the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't
>locked
> > >   >behind
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term
>airport
> > >   >
> > >   >parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is
>usually less
> > >than
> > >   >
> > >   >ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in
>town to
> > >leave
> > >   >
> > >   >my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or
>something
> > >to
> > >   >the
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >trailhead.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford
>explorer,
> > >   >
> > >   >which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic
>hatchback, which
> > >is a
> > >   >
> > >   >very popular car with a high performance motor that gets
>40+mpg. The
> > >   >
> > >   >bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is
> > >because
> > >   >
> > >   >this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is
>in, I
> > >know I
> > >   >
> > >   >couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me
>blue book
> > >which
> > >   >
> > >   >wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it.
>Unfortunately,
> > >   >
> > >   >according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly
> > >stolen
> > >   >
> > >   >vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a
>large urban
> > >   >area
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it
>is where
> > >I
> > >   >
> > >   >live.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying
>it with
> > >   >canned
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a
>hammer and it
> > >   >
> > >   >breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
> > >   >
> > >   >personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the
>Auto Club
> > >guy.
> > >   >
> > >   >Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who
> > >didn't
> > >   >
> > >   >know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone
>wants to
> > >   >
> > >   >steal the car itself.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees"
>at a
> > >place
> > >   >
> > >   >like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're
> > >usually
> > >   >
> > >   >kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower
>wage just
> > >to
> > >   >
> > >   >do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage,
>doesn't mean
> > >   >
> > >   >they're a thief.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private
>property,
> > >behind
> > >   >a
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than
>leaving
> > >them
> > >   >in
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty
>light in any
> > >   >
> > >   >case, because I know there is always a certain amount of
>carrying of
> > >gear
> > >   >
> > >   >involved.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured
>my knee
> > >and
> > >   >
> > >   >hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the
>ride in
> > >   >
> > >   >September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The
>problem
> > >   >
> > >   >isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about
>other
> > >   >people,
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never
>releases,
> > >and
> > >   >
> > >   >it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are
>pretty
> > >good
> > >   >but
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >when I do, its not the best situation.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how
>many
> > >have
> > >   >
> > >   >signed up so far?
> > >   >
> > >   >I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be
>perfect...
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride
> > >forever.
> > >   >
> > >   >Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it
>beats any
> > >ride
> > >   >
> > >   >out there for scenery and experience.
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides
>of 50+
> > >miles
> > >   >
> > >   >before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the
>distance
> > >for
> > >   >the
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
> > >   >
> > >   >Barb
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > >Reply-To:
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >   >
> > >   > >To:
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
> > >   >Concentrated
> > >   >
> > >   > >public parking areas
> > >   >
> > >   >tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known,
> > >easily
> > >   >
> > >   >cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with
>a local
> > >   >
> > >   >business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees
>that
> > >they
> > >   >
> > >   >can let their friends know there will be free access to certain
>cars
> > >for
> > >   >
> > >   >several days. Even private security employees play that game.
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is
>away from
> > >the
> > >   >
> > >   > >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a
>locked gate
> > >that
> > >   >is
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
>better
> > >there
> > >   >
> > >   > >than a public area.
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave
> > >anything
> > >   >of
> > >   >
> > >   > >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the
> > >steering
> > >   >
> > >   > >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why
>expend the
> > >   >
> > >   > >energy where there is little return or too much effort required?
> > >'Bout
> > >   >the
> > >   >
> > >   > >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private
>enclosed
> > >   >
> > >   > >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the
>cost of the
> > >   >trip
> > >   >
> > >   > >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's
> > >possible
> > >   >
> > >   > >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >Stan Hill
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >   >
> > >   > > From: Barb
> > >Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > To:
> >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
> > >   >
> > >   > > Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car
> > >unattended
> > >   >
> > >   > > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether
>there are
> > >   >other
> > >   >
> > >   > >cars
> > >   >
> > >   > > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me
>organizing this
> > >   >
> > >   > >trip,
> > >   >
> > >   > > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in
>a safe
> > >   >
> > >   > >place in
> > >   >
> > >   > > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and
>shuttle
> > >them
> > >   >
> > >   > >out
> > >   >
> > >   > > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
> > >   >
> > >   > >restaurant,
> > >   >
> > >   > > some place where people would be around to notice if there
>were any
> > >   >
> > >   > > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage
>parking,
> > >   >bike
> > >   >
> > >   > > shop parking lot, something.
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >From: "Stan Hill"
> > ><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com><mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Reply-To:
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com>
> > >   >
> > >   > > >To:
> >
>
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpe\
lli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Barb,
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I
>answer. The
> > >   >
> > >   > >trip is
> > >   >
> > >   > > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of
> > >Grand
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed
>from
> > >   >
> > >   > >populated
> > >   >
> > >   > > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than
>anywhere
> > >   >else
> > >   >
> > >   > >you
> > >   >
> > >   > > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
> > >   >Bikerpelli
> > >   >
> > >   > > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school
>bus) brings
> > >   >you
> > >   >
> > >   > > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty
>easy! The
> > >   >
> > >   > >hardest
> > >   >
> > >   > > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your
>stuff for
> > >   >
> > >   > > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between
>your car
> > >   >and
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   > >the
> > >   >
> > >   > > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >Stan Hill
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > >   >
> > >   > > > From:
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
>
>barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com><mailto:barbixy%40hotma\
il.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > > To:
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike
> > >
> > >
>
>rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%40yah\
oogroups.com>>
> > >   >
> > >   > > > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
> > >   >
> > >   > > > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand
>Junction and
> > >   >leave
> > >   >
> > >   > > > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my
>vehicle in CO,
> > >   >and
> > >   >
> > >   > > > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > > thank you,
> > >   >
> > >   > > > Barb
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > > __________________________________________________________
> > >   >
> > >   > > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >
>
>http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us<http://www.reallivemoms.com/?\
ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us><http://www.reallivemoms.c<http://www.reallivemoms.c/>
> > >   >om/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   > >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >__________________________________________________________
> > >   >
> > >   >More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live
> > >Hotmail.
> > >   >
> > >
> > >
>
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio<ht\
tp://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio>
> > >   >n_HM_mini_2G_0507
> > >   >
> > >   >
> > >   >
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-to many big city paronoid people left our grand cherokee for the may
trip and no problem hell your bike is the # 1 thing to worry about--
In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "Barb Martin" <barbixy@...> wrote:
>
> so is there a locked gate or not? I'm confused now. I've got two people
> answering emails sent to the same address.
>
>
> >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...>
> >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:07:02 -0600
> >
> >Okay, I was wrong 'bout the locked gate--maybe it just seemed like
it 'cuz
> >it seemed safe enough. Pay attention to Alex--He's Da Man!
> >
> >('Cept 'bout those fire ants ... ?)
> >
> >Stan
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
> >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:08 AM
> >   Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >
> >
> >   here is the message earlier from Stan, it indicates a locked
gate...???
> >
> >   Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
from
> >the
> >   public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked
gate that
> >is
> >   posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
better there
> >   than a public area.
> >
> >   >From: "Alex Hearn" <alex@...<mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com>>
> >   >Reply-To:
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> >   >To:
<Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
> >   >
> >   >Hi Barb -
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an
airport
> >   >garage than a farm field. Still, I understand your concerns &
respect
> >if
> >   >you'd like to park elsewhere.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was
a week
> >ago,
> >   >in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off
the back
> >of
> >   >their car. I do not know if the rack was locked. Never had any
vehicle
> >   >broken into. Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request
that
> >they
> >   >do
> >   >drive-bys. There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced &
posted, but
> >not
> >   >gated. It is, however, patrolled by a few goats. And the fire
ants can
> >be
> >   >vicious.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >Alex Hearn
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >----------------------------------------------------------
> >   >------------------------------
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >-----Original Message-----
> >   >From:
Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
>
>[mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>]
On
> >   >Behalf Of Barb Martin
> >   >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
> >   >To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >Hi Stan:
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their
cars
> >behind
> >   >
> >   >a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they
would be
> >left
> >   >
> >   >near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is
> >reassuring
> >   >
> >   >because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just
stealing
> >my
> >   >
> >   >car outright. As well, having spent almost my entire life
outdoors,
> >I've
> >   >
> >   >seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is
> >around
> >   >
> >   >because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is
around.
> >Its
> >   >
> >   >not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people
everywhere.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
> >   >population
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >and composition? Does grand junction have an airport? How far
exactly
> >from
> >   >
> >   >the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't
locked
> >   >behind
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term
airport
> >   >
> >   >parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is
usually less
> >than
> >   >
> >   >ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in
town to
> >leave
> >   >
> >   >my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or
something
> >to
> >   >the
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >trailhead.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford
explorer,
> >   >
> >   >which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic
hatchback, which
> >is a
> >   >
> >   >very popular car with a high performance motor that gets
40+mpg. The
> >   >
> >   >bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is
> >because
> >   >
> >   >this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is
in, I
> >know I
> >   >
> >   >couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me
blue book
> >which
> >   >
> >   >wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it.
Unfortunately,
> >   >
> >   >according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly
> >stolen
> >   >
> >   >vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a
large urban
> >   >area
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it
is where
> >I
> >   >
> >   >live.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying
it with
> >   >canned
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a
hammer and it
> >   >
> >   >breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
> >   >
> >   >personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the
Auto Club
> >guy.
> >   >
> >   >Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who
> >didn't
> >   >
> >   >know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone
wants to
> >   >
> >   >steal the car itself.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees"
at a
> >place
> >   >
> >   >like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're
> >usually
> >   >
> >   >kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower
wage just
> >to
> >   >
> >   >do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage,
doesn't mean
> >   >
> >   >they're a thief.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private
property,
> >behind
> >   >a
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than
leaving
> >them
> >   >in
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty
light in any
> >   >
> >   >case, because I know there is always a certain amount of
carrying of
> >gear
> >   >
> >   >involved.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured
my knee
> >and
> >   >
> >   >hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the
ride in
> >   >
> >   >September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The
problem
> >   >
> >   >isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about
other
> >   >people,
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never
releases,
> >and
> >   >
> >   >it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are
pretty
> >good
> >   >but
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >when I do, its not the best situation.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how
many
> >have
> >   >
> >   >signed up so far?
> >   >
> >   >I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be
perfect...
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride
> >forever.
> >   >
> >   >Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it
beats any
> >ride
> >   >
> >   >out there for scenery and experience.
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides
of 50+
> >miles
> >   >
> >   >before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the
distance
> >for
> >   >the
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
> >   >
> >   >Barb
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
> >   >
> >   > >Reply-To:
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
> >   >
> >   > >To:
<Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >
> >   > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >
> >   > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
> >   >Concentrated
> >   >
> >   > >public parking areas
> >   >
> >   >tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known,
> >easily
> >   >
> >   >cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with
a local
> >   >
> >   >business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees
that
> >they
> >   >
> >   >can let their friends know there will be free access to certain
cars
> >for
> >   >
> >   >several days. Even private security employees play that game.
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is
away from
> >the
> >   >
> >   > >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a
locked gate
> >that
> >   >is
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
better
> >there
> >   >
> >   > >than a public area.
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave
> >anything
> >   >of
> >   >
> >   > >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the
> >steering
> >   >
> >   > >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why
expend the
> >   >
> >   > >energy where there is little return or too much effort required?
> >'Bout
> >   >the
> >   >
> >   > >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private
enclosed
> >   >
> >   > >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the
cost of the
> >   >trip
> >   >
> >   > >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's
> >possible
> >   >
> >   > >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > >Stan Hill
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   >
> >   > > From: Barb
> >Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>
> >   >
> >   > > To:
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >
> >   > > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
> >   >
> >   > > Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car
> >unattended
> >   >
> >   > > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether
there are
> >   >other
> >   >
> >   > >cars
> >   >
> >   > > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me
organizing this
> >   >
> >   > >trip,
> >   >
> >   > > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in
a safe
> >   >
> >   > >place in
> >   >
> >   > > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and
shuttle
> >them
> >   >
> >   > >out
> >   >
> >   > > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
> >   >
> >   > >restaurant,
> >   >
> >   > > some place where people would be around to notice if there
were any
> >   >
> >   > > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage
parking,
> >   >bike
> >   >
> >   > > shop parking lot, something.
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > > >From: "Stan Hill"
> ><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com><mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
> >   >
> >   > > >Reply-To:
> >   >
> >   >
> >
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com>
> >   >
> >   > > >To:
>
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpe\
lli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >
> >   > > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >
> >   > > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >Barb,
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I
answer. The
> >   >
> >   > >trip is
> >   >
> >   > > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of
> >Grand
> >   >
> >   > > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed
from
> >   >
> >   > >populated
> >   >
> >   > > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than
anywhere
> >   >else
> >   >
> >   > >you
> >   >
> >   > > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
> >   >Bikerpelli
> >   >
> >   > > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school
bus) brings
> >   >you
> >   >
> >   > > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty
easy! The
> >   >
> >   > >hardest
> >   >
> >   > > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your
stuff for
> >   >
> >   > > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between
your car
> >   >and
> >   >
> >   >
> >   > >the
> >   >
> >   > > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >Stan Hill
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   >
> >   > > > From:
> >   >
> >   >
> >
>barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com><mailto:barbixy%40hotma\
il.com>>
> >   >
> >   > > > To:
> >   >
> >   >
> >
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike
> >
> >
>rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%40yah\
oogroups.com>>
> >   >
> >   > > > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
> >   >
> >   > > > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand
Junction and
> >   >leave
> >   >
> >   > > > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my
vehicle in CO,
> >   >and
> >   >
> >   > > > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > > thank you,
> >   >
> >   > > > Barb
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > > >
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > > __________________________________________________________
> >   >
> >   > > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> >   >
> >   > >
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> >   >
> >
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> >   >om/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   > >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >__________________________________________________________
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> >   >
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> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >
> >   __________________________________________________________
> >   Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN
> >Travel.
> >
>
>http://travel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001<http://t\
ravel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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>

when replying!

Albuquerque, NM


>From: "starladear111" <cgjj1@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Bikerpelli] Re: How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 05:46:38 -0000
>
>BTW, where is everyone from?
>

don't you just love the internet? I do. where else could we get all of this
input, its so much fun...I guess my worry about my car is, that I live on
the ragged edge financially. I have to take care of what I have, and am not
in a position to gamble, 'cause I don't have a fall back position. Asking
questions is not so much about worrying or being inhibited, but about being
prepared and the idea of "know before you go". Most people who have traveled
the world (as I also have) practice this philosophy religiously. Its how
I've made completely trouble free solo trips to even the most sketchy areas
on the globe.


>From: "starladear111" <cgjj1@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [Bikerpelli] Re: How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2007 06:12:02 -0000
>
>Ok, one last thing. (can you tell I'm jealous of you guys)   Just bring a
>crappier car, and a
>better bike than everyone else and you're set. I think I need to come
>shadow this ride for a
>day
>
>--- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "starladear111" <cgjj1@...> wrote:
> >
> > Maybe the Bikerpellibus can pick everyone up in front of their house.
>This trip is about
> > letting go and absorbing yourself in the danger and safety of the
>desert. Pray for great
> > weather and worry about forgetting you're rain gear and powerbars.
>You're car will be
> > fine.
> >
> >
> > --- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "Barb Martin" <barbixy@> wrote:
> > >
> > > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car unattended
> > > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there are
>other cars
> > > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing this
>trip,
> > > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a safe
>place in
> > > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and shuttle them
>out
> > > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
>restaurant,
> > > some place where people would be around to notice if there were any
> > > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage parking,
>bike
> > > shop parking lot, something.
> > >
> > >
> > > >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@>
> > > >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> > > >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
> > > >
> > > >Barb,
> > > >
> > > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer. The
>trip is
> > > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of Grand
> > > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed from
>populated
> > > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than anywhere
>else you
> > > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
>Bikerpelli
> > > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus) brings
>you
> > > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy! The
>hardest
> > > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff for
> > > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your car
>and the
> > > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
> > > >
> > > >Stan Hill
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > > >   From: barbixy<mailto:barbixy@>
> > > >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> > > >   Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
> > > >   Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >   If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction and
>leave
> > > >   my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in CO,
>and
> > > >   how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
> > > >
> > > >   thank you,
> > > >   Barb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > _________________________________________________________________
> > > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> > > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
> > >
> >
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

Excellent, great, thanks for the heads up. I am also nursing a knee injury
from a recent mountain biking accident. As well, I just started a graduate
program, that I was accepted into as a complete surprise, and have school
Wed nights. I'd have to drive to Colorado after class, and that is a 17 hour
drive. I don't think I'm going to be able to do it now, so the parking is
sort of a moot point. In any case, I'll file the info about the RV park in
Fruita, for a future ride. Maybe next summer?

thank you again,
Barb


>From: "Wayne Chick" <waynechick@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 18:42:40 -0600
>
>I visited Fruita about 1 month ago. I checked out the parking where the
>cars
>will be left and it really seemed safe enough. I also visited the trailhead
>and that definitely wouldn't be a place where you would want to leave your
>car. The parking areas is on the outskirts of Fruita which is a small
>farming community and certainly a low crime area. The area where the
>parking
>will be is near the interstate but not right next to it. The main thing is
>that Fruita is a small town and this is in a really rural area. It seemed
>safe enough.
>
>If you are really worried about rhe parking call the Monument RV Resort in
>Fruita (monumentrvresort.com). Before I had to cancel my entry to the fall
>ride (because of an injury) this is where I was going to rent a tent site
>for my SUV and tent camping trailer while I was on the ride. The same
>people
>also have a storage facility next to the RV park (I believe) where you
>might
>be able to store a car for a few days.  The RV park is right next to the
>motels where Alex and his excellent crew will shuttle those who flew in if
>I
>remember reading the info correctly.
>
>I hope this helps.
>
>Wayne Chick
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Jenny Vick" <jenvick@...>
> >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:33:59 -0500
> >
> >no locked gate....
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
> >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:43 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >
> >
> >   so is there a locked gate or not? I'm confused now. I've got two
>people
> >   answering emails sent to the same address.
> >
> >
> >   >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike@...>>
> >   >Reply-To:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >   >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:07:02 -0600
> >   >
> >   >Okay, I was wrong 'bout the locked gate--maybe it just seemed like it
> >'cuz
> >   >it seemed safe enough. Pay attention to Alex--He's Da Man!
> >   >
> >   >('Cept 'bout those fire ants ... ?)
> >   >
> >   >Stan
> >   >
> >   >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   From: Barb
> >Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy@...>>
> >   >   To:
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@\
yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:08 AM
> >   >   Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >   here is the message earlier from Stan, it indicates a locked
> >gate...???
> >   >
> >   >   Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
> >from
> >   >the
> >   >   public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked
>gate
> >that
> >   >is
> >   >   posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better
> >there
> >   >   than a public area.
> >   >
> >   >   >From: "Alex Hearn"
>
><alex@...<mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com<mailto:alex@...%3C\
mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com>>>
> >   >   >Reply-To:
> >
> >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpell\
i%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >To:
>
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Hi Barb -
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an
> >airport
> >   >   >garage than a farm field. Still, I understand your concerns &
> >respect
> >   >if
> >   >   >you'd like to park elsewhere.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was a
> >week
> >   >ago,
> >   >   >in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off
>the
> >back
> >   >of
> >   >   >their car. I do not know if the rack was locked. Never had any
> >vehicle
> >   >   >broken into. Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request
> >that
> >   >they
> >   >   >do
> >   >   >drive-bys. There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced &
>posted,
> >but
> >   >not
> >   >   >gated. It is, however, patrolled by a few goats. And the fire
>ants
> >can
> >   >be
> >   >   >vicious.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Alex Hearn
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >----------------------------------------------------------
> >   >   >------------------------------
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >-----Original Message-----
> >   >   >From:
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpell\
i@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >
> >
>
>[mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:B\
ikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>]
> >On
> >   >   >Behalf Of Barb Martin
> >   >   >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
> >   >   >To:
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpell\
i@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Hi Stan:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their
> >cars
> >   >behind
> >   >   >
> >   >   >a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they
>would
> >be
> >   >left
> >   >   >
> >   >   >near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is
> >   >reassuring
> >   >   >
> >   >   >because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just
> >stealing
> >   >my
> >   >   >
> >   >   >car outright. As well, having spent almost my entire life
>outdoors,
> >   >I've
> >   >   >
> >   >   >seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is
> >   >around
> >   >   >
> >   >   >because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is
> >around.
> >   >Its
> >   >   >
> >   >   >not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people
> >everywhere.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
> >   >   >population
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >and composition? Does grand junction have an airport? How far
> >exactly
> >   >from
> >   >   >
> >   >   >the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't
> >locked
> >   >   >behind
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term
> >airport
> >   >   >
> >   >   >parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is usually
> >less
> >   >than
> >   >   >
> >   >   >ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in town
> >to
> >   >leave
> >   >   >
> >   >   >my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or
> >something
> >   >to
> >   >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >trailhead.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford
> >explorer,
> >   >   >
> >   >   >which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic hatchback,
> >which
> >   >is a
> >   >   >
> >   >   >very popular car with a high performance motor that gets 40+mpg.
> >The
> >   >   >
> >   >   >bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is
> >   >because
> >   >   >
> >   >   >this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is
>in,
> >I
> >   >know I
> >   >   >
> >   >   >couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me blue
> >book
> >   >which
> >   >   >
> >   >   >wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it.
> >Unfortunately,
> >   >   >
> >   >   >according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly
> >   >stolen
> >   >   >
> >   >   >vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a large
> >urban
> >   >   >area
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it is
> >where
> >   >I
> >   >   >
> >   >   >live.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying it
> >with
> >   >   >canned
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a hammer
> >and it
> >   >   >
> >   >   >breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've
>also
> >   >   >
> >   >   >personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the Auto
> >Club
> >   >guy.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car
>(who
> >   >didn't
> >   >   >
> >   >   >know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone
> >wants to
> >   >   >
> >   >   >steal the car itself.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees" at
>a
> >   >place
> >   >   >
> >   >   >like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars.
>They're
> >   >usually
> >   >   >
> >   >   >kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower
>wage
> >just
> >   >to
> >   >   >
> >   >   >do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage, doesn't
> >mean
> >   >   >
> >   >   >they're a thief.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private
>property,
> >   >behind
> >   >   >a
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than
> >leaving
> >   >them
> >   >   >in
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty light
>in
> >any
> >   >   >
> >   >   >case, because I know there is always a certain amount of carrying
> >of
> >   >gear
> >   >   >
> >   >   >involved.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured my
> >knee
> >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   >hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the
>ride
> >in
> >   >   >
> >   >   >September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The
> >problem
> >   >   >
> >   >   >isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about
> >other
> >   >   >people,
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never
> >releases,
> >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   >it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are
>pretty
> >   >good
> >   >   >but
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >when I do, its not the best situation.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how
>many
> >   >have
> >   >   >
> >   >   >signed up so far?
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be
> >perfect...
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this
>ride
> >   >forever.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it
>beats
> >any
> >   >ride
> >   >   >
> >   >   >out there for scenery and experience.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides of
> >50+
> >   >miles
> >   >   >
> >   >   >before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the
> >distance
> >   >for
> >   >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Barb
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >From: "Stan Hill"
>
><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com<mailto:StanBike@...%3Cmailto:St\
anBike%40msn.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Reply-To:
> >
> >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpell\
i%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >To:
>
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
> >   >   >Concentrated
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >public parking areas
> >   >   >
> >   >   >tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy,
>known,
> >   >easily
> >   >   >
> >   >   >cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with a
> >local
> >   >   >
> >   >   >business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees
> >that
> >   >they
> >   >   >
> >   >   >can let their friends know there will be free access to certain
> >cars
> >   >for
> >   >   >
> >   >   >several days. Even private security employees play that game.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is
>away
> >from
> >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked
> >gate
> >   >that
> >   >   >is
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
> >better
> >   >there
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >than a public area.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave
> >   >anything
> >   >   >of
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the
> >   >steering
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why
>expend
> >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >energy where there is little return or too much effort
>required?
> >   >'Bout
> >   >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private
> >enclosed
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the cost
>of
> >the
> >   >   >trip
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's
> >   >possible
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Stan Hill
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > From: Barb
> >
> >
>
>Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com<mailto:barbixy@h\
otmail.com%3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > To:
> >
> >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoo\
groups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogro\
ups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car
> >   >unattended
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there
> >are
> >   >   >other
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >cars
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing
> >this
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >trip,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a
> >safe
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >place in
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and
> >shuttle
> >   >them
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >out
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >restaurant,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > some place where people would be around to notice if there
>were
> >any
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage
> >parking,
> >   >   >bike
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > shop parking lot, something.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >From: "Stan Hill"
> >
> >
>
><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com><mailto:StanBike%40msn.com<mailto:S\
tanBike@...%3Cmailto:StanBike%40msn.com%3E%3Cmailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Reply-To:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%\
40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >To:
> >
> >
>
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpe\
lli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40ya\
hoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Barb,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I
>answer.
> >The
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >trip is
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west
>of
> >   >Grand
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed
> >from
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >populated
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than
> >anywhere
> >   >   >else
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >you
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
> >   >   >Bikerpelli
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus)
> >brings
> >   >   >you
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty
>easy!
> >The
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >hardest
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your
>stuff
> >for
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between
>your
> >car
> >   >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack
>wisely.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Stan Hill
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > From:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> >
>
>barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com><mailto:barbixy\
%40hotmail.com<mailto:barbixy@...%3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com%3E%3Cma\
ilto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > To:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailt\
o:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bike>
> >   >
> >   >
> >
>
>rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%40yah\
oogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroup\
s.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction
> >and
> >   >   >leave
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle
>in
> >CO,
> >   >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > thank you,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > Barb
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > __________________________________________________________
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> >
>
>http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us<http://www.reallivemoms.com/?\
ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us><http://www.reallivemoms.c<http://www.reallivemoms.c/<http\
://www.reallivemoms.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us><http://www.reallivemoms.c<http:/\
/www.reallivemoms.c/>>
> >   >   >om/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >__________________________________________________________
> >   >   >
> >   >   >More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows
>Live
> >   >Hotmail.
> >   >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >
>
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio<ht\
tp://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio<http:\
//imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio>>
> >   >   >n_HM_mini_2G_0507
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >
> >
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpe\
lli/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > Individual Email | Traditional
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >
> >
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/join<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bik\
erpelli/join<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/join>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > (Yahoo! ID required)
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >
> >
>
>mailto:Bikerpelli-digest@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-digest%40yahoogroups\
.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-digest%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >
> >
>
>mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured%4\
0yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >
> >
>
>Bikerpelli-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-unsubscribe%40yahoogro\
ups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
>
>http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://docs\
.yahoo.com/info/terms/%3Chttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> >   >   __________________________________________________________
> >   >   Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN
> >   >Travel.
> >   >
> >
> >
>
>http://travel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001<http://t\
ravel.msn.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001<http://travel.msn\
.com/Articles/aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001>>
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >
> >   _________________________________________________________________
> >   Messenger Café - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served
> >daily.
> >   Visit now.
>
>http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline<http://cafemessenger.com/?\
ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Now you can see trouble…before he arrives
http://newlivehotmail.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM_viral_protection_0507

Ok, one last thing. (can you tell I'm jealous of you guys)   Just bring a
crappier car, and a
better bike than everyone else and you're set. I think I need to come shadow
this ride for a
day

--- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "starladear111" <cgjj1@...> wrote:
>
> Maybe the Bikerpellibus can pick everyone up in front of their house. This
trip is about
> letting go and absorbing yourself in the danger and safety of the desert. Pray
for great
> weather and worry about forgetting you're rain gear and powerbars.  You're car
will be
> fine.
>
>
> --- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "Barb Martin" <barbixy@> wrote:
> >
> > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car unattended
> > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there are other cars
> > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing this trip,
> > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a safe place in
> > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and shuttle them out
> > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour restaurant,
> > some place where people would be around to notice if there were any
> > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage parking, bike
> > shop parking lot, something.
> >
> >
> > >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@>
> > >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> > >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
> > >
> > >Barb,
> > >
> > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer. The trip is
> > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of Grand
> > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed from populated
> > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than anywhere else you
> > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the Bikerpelli
> > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus) brings you
> > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy! The hardest
> > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff for
> > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your car and the
> > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
> > >
> > >Stan Hill
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >   ----- Original Message -----
> > >   From: barbixy<mailto:barbixy@>
> > >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> > >   Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
> > >   Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> > >
> > >
> > >   If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction and leave
> > >   my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in CO, and
> > >   how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
> > >
> > >   thank you,
> > >   Barb
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > _________________________________________________________________
> > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> > http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
> >
>

Maybe the Bikerpellibus can pick everyone up in front of their house. This trip
is about
letting go and absorbing yourself in the danger and safety of the desert. Pray
for great
weather and worry about forgetting you're rain gear and powerbars.  You're car
will be
fine.


--- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "Barb Martin" <barbixy@...> wrote:
>
> to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car unattended
> overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there are other cars
> there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing this trip,
> I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a safe place in
> Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and shuttle them out
> to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour restaurant,
> some place where people would be around to notice if there were any
> vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage parking, bike
> shop parking lot, something.
>
>
> >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...>
> >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
> >
> >Barb,
> >
> >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer. The trip is
> >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of Grand
> >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed from populated
> >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than anywhere else you
> >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the Bikerpelli
> >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus) brings you
> >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy! The hardest
> >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff for
> >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your car and the
> >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
> >
> >Stan Hill
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...>
> >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >   Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
> >   Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >
> >
> >   If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction and leave
> >   my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in CO, and
> >   how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
> >
> >   thank you,
> >   Barb
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us
>

BTW, where is everyone from?

--- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Chick" <waynechick@...> wrote:
>
> I visited Fruita about 1 month ago. I checked out the parking where the cars
> will be left and it really seemed safe enough. I also visited the trailhead
> and that definitely wouldn't be a place where you would want to leave your
> car. The parking areas is on the outskirts of Fruita which is a small
> farming community and certainly a low crime area. The area where the parking
> will be is near the interstate but not right next to it. The main thing is
> that Fruita is a small town and this is in a really rural area. It seemed
> safe enough.
>
> If you are really worried about rhe parking call the Monument RV Resort in
> Fruita (monumentrvresort.com). Before I had to cancel my entry to the fall
> ride (because of an injury) this is where I was going to rent a tent site
> for my SUV and tent camping trailer while I was on the ride. The same people
> also have a storage facility next to the RV park (I believe) where you might
> be able to store a car for a few days.  The RV park is right next to the
> motels where Alex and his excellent crew will shuttle those who flew in if I
> remember reading the info correctly.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Wayne Chick
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Jenny Vick" <jenvick@...>
> >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:33:59 -0500
> >
> >no locked gate....
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
> >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:43 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >
> >
> >   so is there a locked gate or not? I'm confused now. I've got two people
> >   answering emails sent to the same address.
> >
> >
> >   >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike@...>>
> >   >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >   >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:07:02 -0600
> >   >
> >   >Okay, I was wrong 'bout the locked gate--maybe it just seemed like it
> >'cuz
> >   >it seemed safe enough. Pay attention to Alex--He's Da Man!
> >   >
> >   >('Cept 'bout those fire ants ... ?)
> >   >
> >   >Stan
> >   >
> >   >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   From: Barb
> >Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy@...>>
> >   >   To:
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@\
yah
oogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:08 AM
> >   >   Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >   here is the message earlier from Stan, it indicates a locked
> >gate...???
> >   >
> >   >   Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
> >from
> >   >the
> >   >   public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked gate
> >that
> >   >is
> >   >   posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better
> >there
> >   >   than a public area.
> >   >
> >   >   >From: "Alex Hearn"
> ><alex@...<mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com<mailto:alex@...%3Cmailto:alex%
40bikerpelli.com>>>
> >   >   >Reply-To:
> >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >To:
> ><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Hi Barb -
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an
> >airport
> >   >   >garage than a farm field. Still, I understand your concerns &
> >respect
> >   >if
> >   >   >you'd like to park elsewhere.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was a
> >week
> >   >ago,
> >   >   >in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off the
> >back
> >   >of
> >   >   >their car. I do not know if the rack was locked. Never had any
> >vehicle
> >   >   >broken into. Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request
> >that
> >   >they
> >   >   >do
> >   >   >drive-bys. There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced & posted,
> >but
> >   >not
> >   >   >gated. It is, however, patrolled by a few goats. And the fire ants
> >can
> >   >be
> >   >   >vicious.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Alex Hearn
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >----------------------------------------------------------
> >   >   >------------------------------
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >-----Original Message-----
> >   >   >From:
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>
> >
> > >[mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>]
> >On
> >   >   >Behalf Of Barb Martin
> >   >   >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
> >   >   >To:
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Hi Stan:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their
> >cars
> >   >behind
> >   >   >
> >   >   >a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they would
> >be
> >   >left
> >   >   >
> >   >   >near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is
> >   >reassuring
> >   >   >
> >   >   >because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just
> >stealing
> >   >my
> >   >   >
> >   >   >car outright. As well, having spent almost my entire life outdoors,
> >   >I've
> >   >   >
> >   >   >seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is
> >   >around
> >   >   >
> >   >   >because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is
> >around.
> >   >Its
> >   >   >
> >   >   >not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people
> >everywhere.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
> >   >   >population
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >and composition? Does grand junction have an airport? How far
> >exactly
> >   >from
> >   >   >
> >   >   >the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't
> >locked
> >   >   >behind
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term
> >airport
> >   >   >
> >   >   >parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is usually
> >less
> >   >than
> >   >   >
> >   >   >ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in town
> >to
> >   >leave
> >   >   >
> >   >   >my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or
> >something
> >   >to
> >   >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >trailhead.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford
> >explorer,
> >   >   >
> >   >   >which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic hatchback,
> >which
> >   >is a
> >   >   >
> >   >   >very popular car with a high performance motor that gets 40+mpg.
> >The
> >   >   >
> >   >   >bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is
> >   >because
> >   >   >
> >   >   >this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is in,
> >I
> >   >know I
> >   >   >
> >   >   >couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me blue
> >book
> >   >which
> >   >   >
> >   >   >wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it.
> >Unfortunately,
> >   >   >
> >   >   >according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly
> >   >stolen
> >   >   >
> >   >   >vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a large
> >urban
> >   >   >area
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it is
> >where
> >   >I
> >   >   >
> >   >   >live.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying it
> >with
> >   >   >canned
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a hammer
> >and it
> >   >   >
> >   >   >breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
> >   >   >
> >   >   >personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the Auto
> >Club
> >   >guy.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who
> >   >didn't
> >   >   >
> >   >   >know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone
> >wants to
> >   >   >
> >   >   >steal the car itself.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees" at a
> >   >place
> >   >   >
> >   >   >like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're
> >   >usually
> >   >   >
> >   >   >kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower wage
> >just
> >   >to
> >   >   >
> >   >   >do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage, doesn't
> >mean
> >   >   >
> >   >   >they're a thief.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private property,
> >   >behind
> >   >   >a
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than
> >leaving
> >   >them
> >   >   >in
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty light in
> >any
> >   >   >
> >   >   >case, because I know there is always a certain amount of carrying
> >of
> >   >gear
> >   >   >
> >   >   >involved.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured my
> >knee
> >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   >hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the ride
> >in
> >   >   >
> >   >   >September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The
> >problem
> >   >   >
> >   >   >isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about
> >other
> >   >   >people,
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never
> >releases,
> >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   >it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are pretty
> >   >good
> >   >   >but
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >when I do, its not the best situation.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how many
> >   >have
> >   >   >
> >   >   >signed up so far?
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be
> >perfect...
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride
> >   >forever.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it beats
> >any
> >   >ride
> >   >   >
> >   >   >out there for scenery and experience.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides of
> >50+
> >   >miles
> >   >   >
> >   >   >before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the
> >distance
> >   >for
> >   >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Barb
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >From: "Stan Hill"
>
><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com<mailto:StanBike@...%3Cmailto:StanBike%
40msn.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Reply-To:
> >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >To:
> ><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
> >   >   >Concentrated
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >public parking areas
> >   >   >
> >   >   >tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known,
> >   >easily
> >   >   >
> >   >   >cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with a
> >local
> >   >   >
> >   >   >business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees
> >that
> >   >they
> >   >   >
> >   >   >can let their friends know there will be free access to certain
> >cars
> >   >for
> >   >   >
> >   >   >several days. Even private security employees play that game.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
> >from
> >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked
> >gate
> >   >that
> >   >   >is
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
> >better
> >   >there
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >than a public area.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave
> >   >anything
> >   >   >of
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the
> >   >steering
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why expend
> >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >energy where there is little return or too much effort required?
> >   >'Bout
> >   >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private
> >enclosed
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the cost of
> >the
> >   >   >trip
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's
> >   >possible
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Stan Hill
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > From: Barb
> >
> > >Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com<mailto:barbixy@...%
3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > To:
> >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%
3Cmailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car
> >   >unattended
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there
> >are
> >   >   >other
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >cars
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing
> >this
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >trip,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a
> >safe
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >place in
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and
> >shuttle
> >   >them
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >out
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >restaurant,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > some place where people would be around to notice if there were
> >any
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage
> >parking,
> >   >   >bike
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > shop parking lot, something.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >From: "Stan Hill"
> >
> > ><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com><mailto:StanBike%
40msn.com<mailto:StanBike@...%3Cmailto:StanBike%40msn.com%3E%3Cmailto:StanBike%
40msn.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Reply-To:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >To:
> >
> > ><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Barb,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer.
> >The
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >trip is
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of
> >   >Grand
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed
> >from
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >populated
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than
> >anywhere
> >   >   >else
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >you
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
> >   >   >Bikerpelli
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus)
> >brings
> >   >   >you
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy!
> >The
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >hardest
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff
> >for
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your
> >car
> >   >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Stan Hill
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > From:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> > >barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com><mailto:barbixy%
40hotmail.com<mailto:barbixy@...%3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com%3E%
3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > To:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%
3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bike>
> >   >
> >   >
> > >rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction
> >and
> >   >   >leave
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in
> >CO,
> >   >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > thank you,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > Barb
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > __________________________________________________________
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
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> >   >   >
> >   >   >__________________________________________________________
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>

Chances are, if you left your bike attatched to your car, they would steal your
bike, which
doesn't say a lot about your car. i've never had any problems with my vehicle
down there,
and shit sometimes happens, but really,  should'nt you be thinking more about
how much
fun youre going to have on this world class trip.  Alex will not lead you
wrong(unless you
beat him at bike tag). Have fun. Do not pass up the Western Rim....
C


--- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, "Wayne Chick" <waynechick@...> wrote:
>
> I visited Fruita about 1 month ago. I checked out the parking where the cars
> will be left and it really seemed safe enough. I also visited the trailhead
> and that definitely wouldn't be a place where you would want to leave your
> car. The parking areas is on the outskirts of Fruita which is a small
> farming community and certainly a low crime area. The area where the parking
> will be is near the interstate but not right next to it. The main thing is
> that Fruita is a small town and this is in a really rural area. It seemed
> safe enough.
>
> If you are really worried about rhe parking call the Monument RV Resort in
> Fruita (monumentrvresort.com). Before I had to cancel my entry to the fall
> ride (because of an injury) this is where I was going to rent a tent site
> for my SUV and tent camping trailer while I was on the ride. The same people
> also have a storage facility next to the RV park (I believe) where you might
> be able to store a car for a few days.  The RV park is right next to the
> motels where Alex and his excellent crew will shuttle those who flew in if I
> remember reading the info correctly.
>
> I hope this helps.
>
> Wayne Chick
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Jenny Vick" <jenvick@...>
> >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:33:59 -0500
> >
> >no locked gate....
> >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
> >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:43 PM
> >   Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >
> >
> >   so is there a locked gate or not? I'm confused now. I've got two people
> >   answering emails sent to the same address.
> >
> >
> >   >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike@...>>
> >   >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
> >   >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:07:02 -0600
> >   >
> >   >Okay, I was wrong 'bout the locked gate--maybe it just seemed like it
> >'cuz
> >   >it seemed safe enough. Pay attention to Alex--He's Da Man!
> >   >
> >   >('Cept 'bout those fire ants ... ?)
> >   >
> >   >Stan
> >   >
> >   >   ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   From: Barb
> >Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy@...>>
> >   >   To:
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@\
yah
oogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:08 AM
> >   >   Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >   here is the message earlier from Stan, it indicates a locked
> >gate...???
> >   >
> >   >   Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
> >from
> >   >the
> >   >   public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked gate
> >that
> >   >is
> >   >   posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better
> >there
> >   >   than a public area.
> >   >
> >   >   >From: "Alex Hearn"
> ><alex@...<mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com<mailto:alex@...%3Cmailto:alex%
40bikerpelli.com>>>
> >   >   >Reply-To:
> >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >To:
> ><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Hi Barb -
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an
> >airport
> >   >   >garage than a farm field. Still, I understand your concerns &
> >respect
> >   >if
> >   >   >you'd like to park elsewhere.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was a
> >week
> >   >ago,
> >   >   >in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off the
> >back
> >   >of
> >   >   >their car. I do not know if the rack was locked. Never had any
> >vehicle
> >   >   >broken into. Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request
> >that
> >   >they
> >   >   >do
> >   >   >drive-bys. There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced & posted,
> >but
> >   >not
> >   >   >gated. It is, however, patrolled by a few goats. And the fire ants
> >can
> >   >be
> >   >   >vicious.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Alex Hearn
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >----------------------------------------------------------
> >   >   >------------------------------
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >-----Original Message-----
> >   >   >From:
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>
> >
> > >[mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>]
> >On
> >   >   >Behalf Of Barb Martin
> >   >   >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
> >   >   >To:
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Hi Stan:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their
> >cars
> >   >behind
> >   >   >
> >   >   >a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they would
> >be
> >   >left
> >   >   >
> >   >   >near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is
> >   >reassuring
> >   >   >
> >   >   >because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just
> >stealing
> >   >my
> >   >   >
> >   >   >car outright. As well, having spent almost my entire life outdoors,
> >   >I've
> >   >   >
> >   >   >seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is
> >   >around
> >   >   >
> >   >   >because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is
> >around.
> >   >Its
> >   >   >
> >   >   >not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people
> >everywhere.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
> >   >   >population
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >and composition? Does grand junction have an airport? How far
> >exactly
> >   >from
> >   >   >
> >   >   >the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't
> >locked
> >   >   >behind
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term
> >airport
> >   >   >
> >   >   >parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is usually
> >less
> >   >than
> >   >   >
> >   >   >ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in town
> >to
> >   >leave
> >   >   >
> >   >   >my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or
> >something
> >   >to
> >   >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >trailhead.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford
> >explorer,
> >   >   >
> >   >   >which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic hatchback,
> >which
> >   >is a
> >   >   >
> >   >   >very popular car with a high performance motor that gets 40+mpg.
> >The
> >   >   >
> >   >   >bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is
> >   >because
> >   >   >
> >   >   >this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is in,
> >I
> >   >know I
> >   >   >
> >   >   >couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me blue
> >book
> >   >which
> >   >   >
> >   >   >wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it.
> >Unfortunately,
> >   >   >
> >   >   >according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly
> >   >stolen
> >   >   >
> >   >   >vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a large
> >urban
> >   >   >area
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it is
> >where
> >   >I
> >   >   >
> >   >   >live.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying it
> >with
> >   >   >canned
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a hammer
> >and it
> >   >   >
> >   >   >breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
> >   >   >
> >   >   >personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the Auto
> >Club
> >   >guy.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who
> >   >didn't
> >   >   >
> >   >   >know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone
> >wants to
> >   >   >
> >   >   >steal the car itself.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees" at a
> >   >place
> >   >   >
> >   >   >like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're
> >   >usually
> >   >   >
> >   >   >kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower wage
> >just
> >   >to
> >   >   >
> >   >   >do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage, doesn't
> >mean
> >   >   >
> >   >   >they're a thief.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private property,
> >   >behind
> >   >   >a
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than
> >leaving
> >   >them
> >   >   >in
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty light in
> >any
> >   >   >
> >   >   >case, because I know there is always a certain amount of carrying
> >of
> >   >gear
> >   >   >
> >   >   >involved.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured my
> >knee
> >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   >hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the ride
> >in
> >   >   >
> >   >   >September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The
> >problem
> >   >   >
> >   >   >isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about
> >other
> >   >   >people,
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never
> >releases,
> >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   >it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are pretty
> >   >good
> >   >   >but
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >when I do, its not the best situation.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how many
> >   >have
> >   >   >
> >   >   >signed up so far?
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be
> >perfect...
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride
> >   >forever.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it beats
> >any
> >   >ride
> >   >   >
> >   >   >out there for scenery and experience.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides of
> >50+
> >   >miles
> >   >   >
> >   >   >before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the
> >distance
> >   >for
> >   >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Barb
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >From: "Stan Hill"
>
><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com<mailto:StanBike@...%3Cmailto:StanBike%
40msn.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Reply-To:
> >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >To:
> ><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
> >   >   >Concentrated
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >public parking areas
> >   >   >
> >   >   >tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known,
> >   >easily
> >   >   >
> >   >   >cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with a
> >local
> >   >   >
> >   >   >business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees
> >that
> >   >they
> >   >   >
> >   >   >can let their friends know there will be free access to certain
> >cars
> >   >for
> >   >   >
> >   >   >several days. Even private security employees play that game.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
> >from
> >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked
> >gate
> >   >that
> >   >   >is
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
> >better
> >   >there
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >than a public area.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave
> >   >anything
> >   >   >of
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the
> >   >steering
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why expend
> >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >energy where there is little return or too much effort required?
> >   >'Bout
> >   >   >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private
> >enclosed
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the cost of
> >the
> >   >   >trip
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's
> >   >possible
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >Stan Hill
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > From: Barb
> >
> > >Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com<mailto:barbixy@...%
3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > To:
> >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%
3Cmailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car
> >   >unattended
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there
> >are
> >   >   >other
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >cars
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing
> >this
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >trip,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a
> >safe
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >place in
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and
> >shuttle
> >   >them
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >out
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >restaurant,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > some place where people would be around to notice if there were
> >any
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage
> >parking,
> >   >   >bike
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > shop parking lot, something.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >From: "Stan Hill"
> >
> > ><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com><mailto:StanBike%
40msn.com<mailto:StanBike@...%3Cmailto:StanBike%40msn.com%3E%3Cmailto:StanBike%
40msn.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Reply-To:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >To:
> >
> > ><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Barb,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer.
> >The
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >trip is
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of
> >   >Grand
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed
> >from
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >populated
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than
> >anywhere
> >   >   >else
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >you
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
> >   >   >Bikerpelli
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus)
> >brings
> >   >   >you
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy!
> >The
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >hardest
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff
> >for
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your
> >car
> >   >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >the
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >Stan Hill
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > ----- Original Message -----
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > From:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> > >barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com><mailto:barbixy%
40hotmail.com<mailto:barbixy@...%3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com%3E%
3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > To:
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> > >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%
3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bike>
> >   >
> >   >
> > >rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%
40yahoogroups.com>>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction
> >and
> >   >   >leave
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in
> >CO,
> >   >   >and
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > thank you,
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > > Barb
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > __________________________________________________________
> >   >   >
> >   >   > > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> > >http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us<http://
www.reallivemoms.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us><http://
www.reallivemoms.c<http://www.reallivemoms.c/<http://www.reallivemoms.com/?
ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us><http://www.reallivemoms.c<http://www.reallivemoms.c/>>
> >   >   >om/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >__________________________________________________________
> >   >   >
> >   >   >More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live
> >   >Hotmail.
> >   >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> > >http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-
us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio<http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-
us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio<http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-
us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio>>
> >   >   >n_HM_mini_2G_0507
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >Yahoo! Groups Links
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >
> > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
Bikerpelli/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   > Individual Email | Traditional
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >
> >
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/join<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/
Bikerpelli/join<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/join>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   > (Yahoo! ID required)
> >   >   >
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> >
> > >mailto:Bikerpelli-digest@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-digest%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-digest%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >
> >
>mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >
> > >Bikerpelli-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-unsubscribe%
40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-unsubscribe%40yahoogroups.com>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://
docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/%3Chttp://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>>
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >   >
> >   >
> >   >   __________________________________________________________
> >   >   Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN
> >   >Travel.
> >   >
> >
> > >http://travel.msn.com/Articles/
aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001<http://travel.msn.com/Articles/
aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001<http://travel.msn.com/Articles/
aboutfarecast.aspx&ocid=T001MSN25A07001>>
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >   >
> >
> >   _________________________________________________________________
> >   Messenger Café - open for fun 24/7. Hot games, cool activities served
> >daily.
> >   Visit now.
> >http://cafemessenger.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline<http://
cafemessenger.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_AugHMtagline>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >   Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
>

I visited Fruita about 1 month ago. I checked out the parking where the cars
will be left and it really seemed safe enough. I also visited the trailhead
and that definitely wouldn't be a place where you would want to leave your
car. The parking areas is on the outskirts of Fruita which is a small
farming community and certainly a low crime area. The area where the parking
will be is near the interstate but not right next to it. The main thing is
that Fruita is a small town and this is in a really rural area. It seemed
safe enough.

If you are really worried about rhe parking call the Monument RV Resort in
Fruita (monumentrvresort.com). Before I had to cancel my entry to the fall
ride (because of an injury) this is where I was going to rent a tent site
for my SUV and tent camping trailer while I was on the ride. The same people
also have a storage facility next to the RV park (I believe) where you might
be able to store a car for a few days.  The RV park is right next to the
motels where Alex and his excellent crew will shuttle those who flew in if I
remember reading the info correctly.

I hope this helps.

Wayne Chick





>From: "Jenny Vick" <jenvick@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 16:33:59 -0500
>
>no locked gate....
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
>   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 3:43 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
>
>   so is there a locked gate or not? I'm confused now. I've got two people
>   answering emails sent to the same address.
>
>
>   >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike@...>>
>   >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>   >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>>
>   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:07:02 -0600
>   >
>   >Okay, I was wrong 'bout the locked gate--maybe it just seemed like it
>'cuz
>   >it seemed safe enough. Pay attention to Alex--He's Da Man!
>   >
>   >('Cept 'bout those fire ants ... ?)
>   >
>   >Stan
>   >
>   >   ----- Original Message -----
>   >   From: Barb
>Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy@...>>
>   >   To:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@\
yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>>
>   >   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:08 AM
>   >   Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >
>   >
>   >   here is the message earlier from Stan, it indicates a locked
>gate...???
>   >
>   >   Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
>from
>   >the
>   >   public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked gate
>that
>   >is
>   >   posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better
>there
>   >   than a public area.
>   >
>   >   >From: "Alex Hearn"
><alex@...<mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com<mailto:alex@...%3C\
mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com>>>
>   >   >Reply-To:
>
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpell\
i%40yahoogroups.com>>
>   >   >To:
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
>   >   >Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >   >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
>   >   >
>   >   >Hi Barb -
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an
>airport
>   >   >garage than a farm field. Still, I understand your concerns &
>respect
>   >if
>   >   >you'd like to park elsewhere.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was a
>week
>   >ago,
>   >   >in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off the
>back
>   >of
>   >   >their car. I do not know if the rack was locked. Never had any
>vehicle
>   >   >broken into. Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request
>that
>   >they
>   >   >do
>   >   >drive-bys. There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced & posted,
>but
>   >not
>   >   >gated. It is, however, patrolled by a few goats. And the fire ants
>can
>   >be
>   >   >vicious.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >Alex Hearn
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >----------------------------------------------------------
>   >   >------------------------------
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >-----Original Message-----
>   >   >From:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpell\
i@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>
>
>[mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:B\
ikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>]
>On
>   >   >Behalf Of Barb Martin
>   >   >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
>   >   >To:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpell\
i@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>   >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >Hi Stan:
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their
>cars
>   >behind
>   >   >
>   >   >a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they would
>be
>   >left
>   >   >
>   >   >near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is
>   >reassuring
>   >   >
>   >   >because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just
>stealing
>   >my
>   >   >
>   >   >car outright. As well, having spent almost my entire life outdoors,
>   >I've
>   >   >
>   >   >seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is
>   >around
>   >   >
>   >   >because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is
>around.
>   >Its
>   >   >
>   >   >not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people
>everywhere.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
>   >   >population
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >and composition? Does grand junction have an airport? How far
>exactly
>   >from
>   >   >
>   >   >the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't
>locked
>   >   >behind
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term
>airport
>   >   >
>   >   >parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is usually
>less
>   >than
>   >   >
>   >   >ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in town
>to
>   >leave
>   >   >
>   >   >my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or
>something
>   >to
>   >   >the
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >trailhead.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford
>explorer,
>   >   >
>   >   >which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic hatchback,
>which
>   >is a
>   >   >
>   >   >very popular car with a high performance motor that gets 40+mpg.
>The
>   >   >
>   >   >bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is
>   >because
>   >   >
>   >   >this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is in,
>I
>   >know I
>   >   >
>   >   >couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me blue
>book
>   >which
>   >   >
>   >   >wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it.
>Unfortunately,
>   >   >
>   >   >according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly
>   >stolen
>   >   >
>   >   >vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a large
>urban
>   >   >area
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it is
>where
>   >I
>   >   >
>   >   >live.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying it
>with
>   >   >canned
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a hammer
>and it
>   >   >
>   >   >breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
>   >   >
>   >   >personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the Auto
>Club
>   >guy.
>   >   >
>   >   >Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who
>   >didn't
>   >   >
>   >   >know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone
>wants to
>   >   >
>   >   >steal the car itself.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees" at a
>   >place
>   >   >
>   >   >like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're
>   >usually
>   >   >
>   >   >kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower wage
>just
>   >to
>   >   >
>   >   >do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage, doesn't
>mean
>   >   >
>   >   >they're a thief.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private property,
>   >behind
>   >   >a
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than
>leaving
>   >them
>   >   >in
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty light in
>any
>   >   >
>   >   >case, because I know there is always a certain amount of carrying
>of
>   >gear
>   >   >
>   >   >involved.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured my
>knee
>   >and
>   >   >
>   >   >hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the ride
>in
>   >   >
>   >   >September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The
>problem
>   >   >
>   >   >isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about
>other
>   >   >people,
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never
>releases,
>   >and
>   >   >
>   >   >it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are pretty
>   >good
>   >   >but
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >when I do, its not the best situation.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how many
>   >have
>   >   >
>   >   >signed up so far?
>   >   >
>   >   >I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be
>perfect...
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride
>   >forever.
>   >   >
>   >   >Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it beats
>any
>   >ride
>   >   >
>   >   >out there for scenery and experience.
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides of
>50+
>   >miles
>   >   >
>   >   >before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the
>distance
>   >for
>   >   >the
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
>   >   >
>   >   >Barb
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   > >From: "Stan Hill"
><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com<mailto:StanBike@...%3Cmailto:St\
anBike%40msn.com>>>
>   >   >
>   >   > >Reply-To:
>
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpell\
i%40yahoogroups.com>>
>   >   >
>   >   > >To:
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
>   >   >
>   >   > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >   >
>   >   > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
>   >   >Concentrated
>   >   >
>   >   > >public parking areas
>   >   >
>   >   >tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known,
>   >easily
>   >   >
>   >   >cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with a
>local
>   >   >
>   >   >business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees
>that
>   >they
>   >   >
>   >   >can let their friends know there will be free access to certain
>cars
>   >for
>   >   >
>   >   >several days. Even private security employees play that game.
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away
>from
>   >the
>   >   >
>   >   > >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked
>gate
>   >that
>   >   >is
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   > >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot
>better
>   >there
>   >   >
>   >   > >than a public area.
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave
>   >anything
>   >   >of
>   >   >
>   >   > >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the
>   >steering
>   >   >
>   >   > >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why expend
>the
>   >   >
>   >   > >energy where there is little return or too much effort required?
>   >'Bout
>   >   >the
>   >   >
>   >   > >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private
>enclosed
>   >   >
>   >   > >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the cost of
>the
>   >   >trip
>   >   >
>   >   > >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's
>   >possible
>   >   >
>   >   > >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > >Stan Hill
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > ----- Original Message -----
>   >   >
>   >   > > From: Barb
>
>
>Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com<mailto:barbixy@h\
otmail.com%3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>>
>   >   >
>   >   > > To:
>
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoo\
groups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogro\
ups.com>>>
>   >   >
>   >   > > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
>   >   >
>   >   > > Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car
>   >unattended
>   >   >
>   >   > > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there
>are
>   >   >other
>   >   >
>   >   > >cars
>   >   >
>   >   > > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing
>this
>   >   >
>   >   > >trip,
>   >   >
>   >   > > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a
>safe
>   >   >
>   >   > >place in
>   >   >
>   >   > > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and
>shuttle
>   >them
>   >   >
>   >   > >out
>   >   >
>   >   > > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
>   >   >
>   >   > >restaurant,
>   >   >
>   >   > > some place where people would be around to notice if there were
>any
>   >   >
>   >   > > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage
>parking,
>   >   >bike
>   >   >
>   >   > > shop parking lot, something.
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >From: "Stan Hill"
>
>
><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com><mailto:StanBike%40msn.com<mailto:S\
tanBike@...%3Cmailto:StanBike%40msn.com%3E%3Cmailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>>
>   >   >
>   >   > > >Reply-To:
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%\
40yahoogroups.com>>
>   >   >
>   >   > > >To:
>
>
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpe\
lli%40yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40ya\
hoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>>
>   >   >
>   >   > > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >   >
>   >   > > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >Barb,
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer.
>The
>   >   >
>   >   > >trip is
>   >   >
>   >   > > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of
>   >Grand
>   >   >
>   >   > > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed
>from
>   >   >
>   >   > >populated
>   >   >
>   >   > > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than
>anywhere
>   >   >else
>   >   >
>   >   > >you
>   >   >
>   >   > > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
>   >   >Bikerpelli
>   >   >
>   >   > > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus)
>brings
>   >   >you
>   >   >
>   >   > > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy!
>The
>   >   >
>   >   > >hardest
>   >   >
>   >   > > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff
>for
>   >   >
>   >   > > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your
>car
>   >   >and
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   > >the
>   >   >
>   >   > > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >Stan Hill
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > > ----- Original Message -----
>   >   >
>   >   > > > From:
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >
>
>barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com><mailto:barbixy\
%40hotmail.com<mailto:barbixy@...%3Cmailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com%3E%3Cma\
ilto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>>
>   >   >
>   >   > > > To:
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailt\
o:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bike>
>   >
>   >
>
>rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%40yah\
oogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com%3E%3Cmailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroup\
s.com>>>
>   >   >
>   >   > > > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
>   >   >
>   >   > > > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction
>and
>   >   >leave
>   >   >
>   >   > > > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in
>CO,
>   >   >and
>   >   >
>   >   > > > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > > thank you,
>   >   >
>   >   > > > Barb
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > >
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   > > __________________________________________________________
>   >   >
>   >   > > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
>   >   >
>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >
>
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://www.reallivemoms.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us><http://www.reallivemoms.c<http:/\
/www.reallivemoms.c/>>
>   >   >om/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
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>   >   > >
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>   >   > >
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>   >   > >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >__________________________________________________________
>   >   >
>   >   >More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live
>   >Hotmail.
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>   >   >
>   >   >Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>   >   >
>
>
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpe\
lli/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/>>
>   >   >
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>   >   >
>   >   > Individual Email | Traditional
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>
>
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>
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0yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured%40yahoogroups.com>>
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>

so is there a locked gate or not? I'm confused now. I've got two people
answering emails sent to the same address.


>From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2007 03:07:02 -0600
>
>Okay, I was wrong 'bout the locked gate--maybe it just seemed like it 'cuz
>it seemed safe enough. Pay attention to Alex--He's Da Man!
>
>('Cept 'bout those fire ants ... ?)
>
>Stan
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
>   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2007 1:08 AM
>   Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
>
>   here is the message earlier from Stan, it indicates a locked gate...???
>
>   Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away from
>the
>   public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked gate that
>is
>   posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better there
>   than a public area.
>
>   >From: "Alex Hearn" <alex@...<mailto:alex%40bikerpelli.com>>
>   >Reply-To:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
>   >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>   >Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
>   >
>   >Hi Barb -
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an airport
>   >garage than a farm field. Still, I understand your concerns & respect
>if
>   >you'd like to park elsewhere.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was a week
>ago,
>   >in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off the back
>of
>   >their car. I do not know if the rack was locked. Never had any vehicle
>   >broken into. Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request that
>they
>   >do
>   >drive-bys. There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced & posted, but
>not
>   >gated. It is, however, patrolled by a few goats. And the fire ants can
>be
>   >vicious.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >Alex Hearn
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >----------------------------------------------------------
>   >------------------------------
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >-----Original Message-----
>   >From: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
>[mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>] On
>   >Behalf Of Barb Martin
>   >Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
>   >To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
>   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >Hi Stan:
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their cars
>behind
>   >
>   >a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they would be
>left
>   >
>   >near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is
>reassuring
>   >
>   >because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just stealing
>my
>   >
>   >car outright. As well, having spent almost my entire life outdoors,
>I've
>   >
>   >seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is
>around
>   >
>   >because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is around.
>Its
>   >
>   >not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people everywhere.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
>   >population
>   >
>   >
>   >and composition? Does grand junction have an airport? How far exactly
>from
>   >
>   >the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't locked
>   >behind
>   >
>   >
>   >a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term airport
>   >
>   >parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is usually less
>than
>   >
>   >ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in town to
>leave
>   >
>   >my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or something
>to
>   >the
>   >
>   >
>   >trailhead.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford explorer,
>   >
>   >which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic hatchback, which
>is a
>   >
>   >very popular car with a high performance motor that gets 40+mpg. The
>   >
>   >bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is
>because
>   >
>   >this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is in, I
>know I
>   >
>   >couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me blue book
>which
>   >
>   >wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it. Unfortunately,
>   >
>   >according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly
>stolen
>   >
>   >vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a large urban
>   >area
>   >
>   >
>   >or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it is where
>I
>   >
>   >live.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying it with
>   >canned
>   >
>   >
>   >air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a hammer and it
>   >
>   >breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
>   >
>   >personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the Auto Club
>guy.
>   >
>   >Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who
>didn't
>   >
>   >know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone wants to
>   >
>   >steal the car itself.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees" at a
>place
>   >
>   >like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're
>usually
>   >
>   >kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower wage just
>to
>   >
>   >do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage, doesn't mean
>   >
>   >they're a thief.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private property,
>behind
>   >a
>   >
>   >
>   >locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than leaving
>them
>   >in
>   >
>   >
>   >a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty light in any
>   >
>   >case, because I know there is always a certain amount of carrying of
>gear
>   >
>   >involved.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured my knee
>and
>   >
>   >hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the ride in
>   >
>   >September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The problem
>   >
>   >isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about other
>   >people,
>   >
>   >
>   >but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never releases,
>and
>   >
>   >it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are pretty
>good
>   >but
>   >
>   >
>   >when I do, its not the best situation.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how many
>have
>   >
>   >signed up so far?
>   >
>   >I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be perfect...
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride
>forever.
>   >
>   >Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it beats any
>ride
>   >
>   >out there for scenery and experience.
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides of 50+
>miles
>   >
>   >before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the distance
>for
>   >the
>   >
>   >
>   >kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
>   >
>   >Barb
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
>   >
>   > >Reply-To:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
>   >
>   > >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>   >
>   > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >
>   > >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
>   >Concentrated
>   >
>   > >public parking areas
>   >
>   >tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known,
>easily
>   >
>   >cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with a local
>   >
>   >business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees that
>they
>   >
>   >can let their friends know there will be free access to certain cars
>for
>   >
>   >several days. Even private security employees play that game.
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away from
>the
>   >
>   > >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked gate
>that
>   >is
>   >
>   >
>   > >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better
>there
>   >
>   > >than a public area.
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave
>anything
>   >of
>   >
>   > >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the
>steering
>   >
>   > >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why expend the
>   >
>   > >energy where there is little return or too much effort required?
>'Bout
>   >the
>   >
>   > >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private enclosed
>   >
>   > >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the cost of the
>   >trip
>   >
>   > >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's
>possible
>   >
>   > >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > >Stan Hill
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > > ----- Original Message -----
>   >
>   > > From: Barb
>Martin<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>
>   >
>   > > To:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>   >
>   > > Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
>   >
>   > > Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > > to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car
>unattended
>   >
>   > > overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there are
>   >other
>   >
>   > >cars
>   >
>   > > there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing this
>   >
>   > >trip,
>   >
>   > > I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a safe
>   >
>   > >place in
>   >
>   > > Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and shuttle
>them
>   >
>   > >out
>   >
>   > > to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
>   >
>   > >restaurant,
>   >
>   > > some place where people would be around to notice if there were any
>   >
>   > > vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage parking,
>   >bike
>   >
>   > > shop parking lot, something.
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > > >From: "Stan Hill"
><StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com><mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
>   >
>   > > >Reply-To:
>   >
>   >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com>
>   >
>   > > >To:
><Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpe\
lli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>   >
>   > > >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >
>   > > >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >Barb,
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer. The
>   >
>   > >trip is
>   >
>   > > >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of
>Grand
>   >
>   > > >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed from
>   >
>   > >populated
>   >
>   > > >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than anywhere
>   >else
>   >
>   > >you
>   >
>   > > >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
>   >Bikerpelli
>   >
>   > > >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus) brings
>   >you
>   >
>   > > >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy! The
>   >
>   > >hardest
>   >
>   > > >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff for
>   >
>   > > >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your car
>   >and
>   >
>   >
>   > >the
>   >
>   > > >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >Stan Hill
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > > ----- Original Message -----
>   >
>   > > > From:
>   >
>   >
>
>barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com><mailto:barbixy\
%40hotmail.com>>
>   >
>   > > > To:
>   >
>   >
>
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike
>
>
>rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:rpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpelli%40yah\
oogroups.com>>
>   >
>   > > > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
>   >
>   > > > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction and
>   >leave
>   >
>   > > > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in CO,
>   >and
>   >
>   > > > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > > thank you,
>   >
>   > > > Barb
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > > >
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > > __________________________________________________________
>   >
>   > > Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   >
>
>http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us<http://www.reallivemoms.com/?\
ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us><http://www.reallivemoms.c<http://www.reallivemoms.c/>
>   >om/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   > >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >__________________________________________________________
>   >
>   >More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live
>Hotmail.
>   >
>
>
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio<ht\
tp://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio>
>   >n_HM_mini_2G_0507
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >Yahoo! Groups Links
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpe\
lli/>
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > Individual Email | Traditional
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/join<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bik\
erpelli/join>
>   >
>   > (Yahoo! ID required)
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>mailto:Bikerpelli-digest@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-digest%40yahoogroups\
.com>
>   >
>   >
>mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured%4\
0yahoogroups.com>
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>Bikerpelli-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli-unsubscribe%40yahoogro\
ups.com>
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/<http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>
>   >
>   >
>   >
>
>   __________________________________________________________
>   Booking a flight? Know when to buy with airfare predictions on MSN
>Travel.
>
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here is the message earlier from Stan, it indicates a locked gate...???

Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away from the
public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked gate that is
posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better there
than a public area.



>From: "Alex Hearn" <alex@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
>
>Hi Barb -
>
>
>
>Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an airport
>garage than a farm field.  Still, I understand your concerns & respect if
>you'd like to park elsewhere.
>
>
>
>I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was a week ago,
>in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off the back of
>their car.  I do not know if the rack was locked.  Never had any vehicle
>broken into.  Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
>
>
>
>We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request that they
>do
>drive-bys.  There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
>
>
>
>Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced & posted, but not
>gated.  It is, however, patrolled by a few goats.  And the fire ants can be
>vicious.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Alex Hearn
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of Barb Martin
>Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
>To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
>
>
>Hi Stan:
>
>
>
>Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their cars behind
>
>a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they would be left
>
>near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is reassuring
>
>because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just stealing my
>
>car outright. As well,  having spent almost my entire life outdoors, I've
>
>seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is around
>
>because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is around. Its
>
>not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people everywhere.
>
>
>
>Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
>population
>
>
>and composition?  Does grand junction have an airport? How far exactly from
>
>the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't locked
>behind
>
>
>a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term airport
>
>parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is usually less than
>
>ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in town to leave
>
>my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or something to
>the
>
>
>trailhead.
>
>
>
>The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford explorer,
>
>which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic hatchback, which is a
>
>very popular car with a high performance motor that gets 40+mpg. The
>
>bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is because
>
>this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is in, I know I
>
>couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me blue book which
>
>wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it. Unfortunately,
>
>according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly stolen
>
>vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a large urban
>area
>
>
>or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it is where I
>
>live.
>
>
>
>By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying it with
>canned
>
>
>air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a hammer and it
>
>breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
>
>personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the Auto Club guy.
>
>Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who didn't
>
>know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone wants to
>
>steal the car itself.
>
>
>
>And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees" at a place
>
>like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're usually
>
>kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower wage just to
>
>do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage, doesn't mean
>
>they're a thief.
>
>
>
>I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private property, behind
>a
>
>
>locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than leaving them
>in
>
>
>a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
>
>
>
>thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty light in any
>
>case, because I know there is always a certain amount of carrying of gear
>
>involved.
>
>
>
>I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured my knee and
>
>hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the ride in
>
>September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The problem
>
>isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about other
>people,
>
>
>but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never releases, and
>
>it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are pretty good
>but
>
>
>when I do, its not the best situation.
>
>
>
>I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how many have
>
>signed up so far?
>
>I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be perfect...
>
>
>
>thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride forever.
>
>Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it beats any ride
>
>out there for scenery and experience.
>
>
>
>I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides of 50+ miles
>
>before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the distance for
>the
>
>
>kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
>
>Barb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...>
>
> >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>
> >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>
> >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
> >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
>
> >
>
> >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
>Concentrated
>
> >public parking areas
>
>tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known, easily
>
>cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with a local
>
>business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees that they
>
>can let their friends know there will be free access to certain cars for
>
>several days. Even private security employees play that game.
>
> >
>
> >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away from the
>
> >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked gate that
>is
>
>
> >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better there
>
> >than a public area.
>
> >
>
> >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave anything
>of
>
> >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the steering
>
> >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why expend the
>
> >energy where there is little return or too much effort required? 'Bout
>the
>
> >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private enclosed
>
> >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the cost of the
>trip
>
> >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's possible
>
> >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
>
> >
>
> >Stan Hill
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   ----- Original Message -----
>
> >   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
>
> >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>
> >   Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
>
> >   Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car unattended
>
> >   overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there are
>other
>
> >cars
>
> >   there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing this
>
> >trip,
>
> >   I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a safe
>
> >place in
>
> >   Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and shuttle them
>
> >out
>
> >   to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
>
> >restaurant,
>
> >   some place where people would be around to notice if there were any
>
> >   vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage parking,
>bike
>
> >   shop parking lot, something.
>
> >
>
> >   >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
>
> >   >Reply-To:
>
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> >   >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>
> >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
> >   >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
>
> >   >
>
> >   >Barb,
>
> >   >
>
> >   >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer. The
>
> >trip is
>
> >   >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of Grand
>
> >   >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed from
>
> >populated
>
> >   >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than anywhere
>else
>
> >you
>
> >   >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
>Bikerpelli
>
> >   >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus) brings
>you
>
> >   >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy! The
>
> >hardest
>
> >   >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff for
>
> >   >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your car
>and
>
>
> >the
>
> >   >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
>
> >   >
>
> >   >Stan Hill
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   > ----- Original Message -----
>
> >   > From:
>
> >barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>
>
> >   > To:
>
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike
>rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>
> >   > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
>
> >   > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction and
>leave
>
> >   > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in CO,
>and
>
> >   > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
>
> >   >
>
> >   > thank you,
>
> >   > Barb
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >
>
> >   __________________________________________________________
>
> >   Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
>
> >
>
> >http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us<http://www.reallivemoms.c
>om/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
>
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio
>n_HM_mini_2G_0507
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/
>
>
>
>     Individual Email | Traditional
>
>
>
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/join
>
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
>
>
>     mailto:Bikerpelli-digest@yahoogroups.com
>
>     mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>     Bikerpelli-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

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great sense of humor...fire ants, now THAT is a serious threat...just have
to ride so fast they can't jump on your bike as you go by...LOL


>From: "Alex Hearn" <alex@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: RE: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 13:14:49 -0600
>
>Hi Barb -
>
>
>
>Statistically your car is much more likely to be stolen from an airport
>garage than a farm field.  Still, I understand your concerns & respect if
>you'd like to park elsewhere.
>
>
>
>I can say that in 6 years the only incident we've ever had was a week ago,
>in Salida (different trip), someone had a bike rack stolen off the back of
>their car.  I do not know if the rack was locked.  Never had any vehicle
>broken into.  Never any incidents on the Kokopelli trip.
>
>
>
>We do alert the CSP & Sheriff that we'll be out there & request that they
>do
>drive-bys.  There's also a residence about 200 meters away.
>
>
>
>Just a note for accuracy - the field we park in is fenced & posted, but not
>gated.  It is, however, patrolled by a few goats.  And the fire ants can be
>vicious.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Alex Hearn
>
>
>
>----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>------------------------------
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com] On
>Behalf Of Barb Martin
>Sent: Monday, August 27, 2007 11:28 AM
>To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
>
>
>Hi Stan:
>
>
>
>Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their cars behind
>
>a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they would be left
>
>near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is reassuring
>
>because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just stealing my
>
>car outright. As well,  having spent almost my entire life outdoors, I've
>
>seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is around
>
>because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is around. Its
>
>not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people everywhere.
>
>
>
>Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the
>population
>
>
>and composition?  Does grand junction have an airport? How far exactly from
>
>the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't locked
>behind
>
>
>a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term airport
>
>parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is usually less than
>
>ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in town to leave
>
>my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or something to
>the
>
>
>trailhead.
>
>
>
>The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford explorer,
>
>which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic hatchback, which is a
>
>very popular car with a high performance motor that gets 40+mpg. The
>
>bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is because
>
>this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is in, I know I
>
>couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me blue book which
>
>wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it. Unfortunately,
>
>according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly stolen
>
>vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a large urban
>area
>
>
>or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it is where I
>
>live.
>
>
>
>By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying it with
>canned
>
>
>air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a hammer and it
>
>breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
>
>personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the Auto Club guy.
>
>Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who didn't
>
>know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone wants to
>
>steal the car itself.
>
>
>
>And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees" at a place
>
>like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're usually
>
>kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower wage just to
>
>do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage, doesn't mean
>
>they're a thief.
>
>
>
>I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private property, behind
>a
>
>
>locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than leaving them
>in
>
>
>a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.
>
>
>
>thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty light in any
>
>case, because I know there is always a certain amount of carrying of gear
>
>involved.
>
>
>
>I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured my knee and
>
>hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the ride in
>
>September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The problem
>
>isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about other
>people,
>
>
>but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never releases, and
>
>it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are pretty good
>but
>
>
>when I do, its not the best situation.
>
>
>
>I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how many have
>
>signed up so far?
>
>I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be perfect...
>
>
>
>thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride forever.
>
>Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it beats any ride
>
>out there for scenery and experience.
>
>
>
>I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides of 50+ miles
>
>before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the distance for
>the
>
>
>kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
>
>Barb
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...>
>
> >Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>
> >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>
> >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
> >Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
>
> >
>
> >I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security.
>Concentrated
>
> >public parking areas
>
>tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known, easily
>
>cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with a local
>
>business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees that they
>
>can let their friends know there will be free access to certain cars for
>
>several days. Even private security employees play that game.
>
> >
>
> >Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away from the
>
> >public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked gate that
>is
>
>
> >posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better there
>
> >than a public area.
>
> >
>
> >Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave anything
>of
>
> >obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the steering
>
> >wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why expend the
>
> >energy where there is little return or too much effort required? 'Bout
>the
>
> >only way I can think of that might be safer would be private enclosed
>
> >storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the cost of the
>trip
>
> >as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's possible
>
> >that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
>
> >
>
> >Stan Hill
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   ----- Original Message -----
>
> >   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
>
> >   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>
> >   Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
>
> >   Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >   to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car unattended
>
> >   overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there are
>other
>
> >cars
>
> >   there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing this
>
> >trip,
>
> >   I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a safe
>
> >place in
>
> >   Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and shuttle them
>
> >out
>
> >   to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
>
> >restaurant,
>
> >   some place where people would be around to notice if there were any
>
> >   vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage parking,
>bike
>
> >   shop parking lot, something.
>
> >
>
> >   >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
>
> >   >Reply-To:
>
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
>
> >   >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>
> >   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
> >   >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
>
> >   >
>
> >   >Barb,
>
> >   >
>
> >   >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer. The
>
> >trip is
>
> >   >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of Grand
>
> >   >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed from
>
> >populated
>
> >   >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than anywhere
>else
>
> >you
>
> >   >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the
>Bikerpelli
>
> >   >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus) brings
>you
>
> >   >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy! The
>
> >hardest
>
> >   >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff for
>
> >   >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your car
>and
>
>
> >the
>
> >   >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
>
> >   >
>
> >   >Stan Hill
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   > ----- Original Message -----
>
> >   > From:
>
> >barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>
>
> >   > To:
>
> >Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bike
>rpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>
> >   > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
>
> >   > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction and
>leave
>
> >   > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in CO,
>and
>
> >   > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
>
> >   >
>
> >   > thank you,
>
> >   > Barb
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >   >
>
> >
>
> >   __________________________________________________________
>
> >   Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
>
> >
>
> >http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us<http://www.reallivemoms.c
>om/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
>
>
>_________________________________________________________________
>
>More photos, more messages, more storage-get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
>
>http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migratio
>n_HM_mini_2G_0507
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/
>
>
>
>     Individual Email | Traditional
>
>
>
>     http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bikerpelli/join
>
>     (Yahoo! ID required)
>
>
>
>     mailto:Bikerpelli-digest@yahoogroups.com
>
>     mailto:Bikerpelli-fullfeatured@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>     Bikerpelli-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>
>
>     http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
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Hi Stan:

Your original reply did not state people would be leaving their cars behind
a locked gate with a no trespassing sign, you just wrote they would be left
near the trailhead. Knowing they'll be locked behind a gate is reassuring
because I'm not so concerned with anyone breaking in, as just stealing my
car outright. As well,  having spent almost my entire life outdoors, I've
seen some of the worst things happen at trailheads when no one is around
because of the very fact that they are isolated and no one is around. Its
not the norm, but it does happen. There are weird people everywhere.

Aside from that, what kind of town is grand junction? What is the population
and composition?  Does grand junction have an airport? How far exactly from
the city/airport itself, is the trailhead? If the cars weren't locked behind
a gate, I would be more inclined to leave my car in long term airport
parking, which is usually gated and monitored 24/7 and is usually less than
ten bucks a day, or make my own arrangements with someone in town to leave
my vehicle on their premesis and then catch a bus or cab or something to the
trailhead.

The reason I'm concerned is, my car isn't a gas guzzling ford explorer,
which no one really wants to steal. Its a Honda civic hatchback, which is a
very popular car with a high performance motor that gets 40+mpg. The
bluebook value isn't high on my car, but the replacement value is because
this make and model isn't common, esp in the condition mine is in, I know I
couldn't find another one, and insurance would only give me blue book which
wouldn't even come close to buying another car like it. Unfortunately,
according to my insurance company, it is one of the most commonly stolen
vehicles. I'm not sure if this is because I live close to a large urban area
or what. This statistic might be different in Colorado than it is where I
live.

By the way, the Club can be removed in 20 seconds by spraying it with canned
air, which freezes the metal which can then be hit with a hammer and it
breaks like a candy cane. I've personally seen this done. I've also
personally seen my car opened in less than 20 seconds by the Auto Club guy.
Common sense of course dictates don't leave things in the car (who didn't
know that), but that has little to do with anything if someone wants to
steal the car itself.

And I don't think local business with "minimum wage employees" at a place
like a bike store are exactly gang members who steal cars. They're usually
kids who love riding bikes and don't mind working for a lower wage just to
do what they love. Just because someone is minimum wage, doesn't mean
they're a thief.

I really want to do this ride, if the cars are on private property, behind a
locked gate that says no trespassing, that is different than leaving them in
a public area near a deserted trailhead for days.

thanks for the tip about the gear, I usually travel pretty light in any
case, because I know there is always a certain amount of carrying of gear
involved.

I had a bad wipeout on the trail over a week ago, and injured my knee and
hip, and am hoping both are in good enough condition to do the ride in
September. As of today, they are still in pretty bad shape. The problem
isn't so much the impact when you fall, and I don't know about other people,
but when I fall, on the side I fall on, seems the cleat never releases, and
it usually twists my knee. I don't fall often, my skills are pretty good but
when I do, its not the best situation.

I will be in touch, how many do you take on this ride? And how many have
signed up so far?
I would think doing this ride in Sep, the weather would be perfect...

thanks for the additional information. I've wanted to do this ride forever.
Am acquaintance of mine has done it, and said hands down, it beats any ride
out there for scenery and experience.

I've done century rides before on my road bike, and mtb rides of 50+ miles
before, did the whitney trail hike in one day last Oct, the distance for the
kokopelli ride will be more than doable.
Barb






>From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2007 10:42:15 -0600
>
>I 'spose everyone has their own sense of safety and security. Concentrated
>public parking areas
tend to attract more vandals and thieves 'cuz they're easy, known, easily
cased and have a reliable supply of targets. Arrangements with a local
business simply provides notice to their minimum wage employees that they
can let their friends know there will be free access to certain cars for
several days. Even private security employees play that game.
>
>Bikerpelli has arranged for parking on private land that is away from the
>public trailhead and is out of the public eye through a locked gate that is
>posted no trespassing. Nothing is assured, but I felt a lot better there
>than a public area.
>
>Of course some common sense measures help as well: don't leave anything of
>obvious value in plain sight and perhaps put a Club lock on the steering
>wheel--risk is a consideration for thieves as well, so why expend the
>energy where there is little return or too much effort required? 'Bout the
>only way I can think of that might be safer would be private enclosed
>storage. Of course that would easily double or triple the cost of the trip
>as well as greatly complicate the getting to-and-from, but it's possible
>that you could arrange it for yourself in Grand Junction.
>
>Stan Hill
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Barb Martin<mailto:barbixy@...>
>   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2007 11:16 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
>
>   to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car unattended
>   overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there are other
>cars
>   there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing this
>trip,
>   I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a safe
>place in
>   Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and shuttle them
>out
>   to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour
>restaurant,
>   some place where people would be around to notice if there were any
>   vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage parking, bike
>   shop parking lot, something.
>
>   >From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...<mailto:StanBike%40msn.com>>
>   >Reply-To:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>
>   >To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>   >Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
>   >
>   >Barb,
>   >
>   >You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer. The
>trip is
>   >set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of Grand
>   >Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed from
>populated
>   >areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than anywhere else
>you
>   >might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the Bikerpelli
>   >trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus) brings you
>   >back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy! The
>hardest
>   >part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff for
>   >you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your car and
>the
>   >transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
>   >
>   >Stan Hill
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   > ----- Original Message -----
>   > From:
>barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...<mailto:barbixy%40hotmail.com>>
>   > To:
>Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com><mailto:Bikerpel\
li@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli%40yahoogroups.com>>
>   > Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
>   > Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>   >
>   >
>   > If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction and leave
>   > my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in CO, and
>   > how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
>   >
>   > thank you,
>   > Barb
>   >
>   >
>   >
>   >
>
>   __________________________________________________________
>   Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
>
>http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us<http://www.reallivemoms.com/?\
ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us>
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
More photos, more messages, more storage—get 2GB with Windows Live Hotmail.
http://imagine-windowslive.com/hotmail/?locale=en-us&ocid=TXT_TAGHM_migration_HM\
_mini_2G_0507

to be honest, I'm not all that thrilled with leaving my car unattended
overnight for several days in an isolated area, whether there are other cars
there or not doesn't change the risk. If it were me organizing this trip,
I'd make some arrangements for people to leave their cars in a safe place in
Grand Junction itself, and them pick them up in town, and shuttle them out
to the trail head. I'd arrange with a local business, 24 hour restaurant,
some place where people would be around to notice if there were any
vandalism or break in attempts. Public parking lot, garage parking, bike
shop parking lot, something.


>From: "Stan Hill" <StanBike@...>
>Reply-To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
>To: <Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2007 07:49:21 -0600
>
>Barb,
>
>You've probably already received a dozen replies, but I answer. The trip is
>set up to leave your car near the trailhead near Loma (west of Grand
>Junction). While there are no guarantees, it's well removed from populated
>areas and public parking areas so is probably safer than anywhere else you
>might leave it, plus it will be parked with others doing the Bikerpelli
>trip. At the end of the trip in Moab, a shuttle (school bus) brings you
>back to the start point where your car is located. Pretty easy! The hardest
>part of this arrangement is: no one is going to load your stuff for
>you--you are responsible for moving your own stuff between your car and the
>transportation trucks (and of course camping)--so pack wisely.
>
>Stan Hill
>
>
>
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: barbixy<mailto:barbixy@...>
>   To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com<mailto:Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com>
>   Sent: Saturday, August 25, 2007 10:24 PM
>   Subject: [Bikerpelli] How do we get back to colorado?
>
>
>   If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction and leave
>   my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in CO, and
>   how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?
>
>   thank you,
>   Barb
>
>
>
>

_________________________________________________________________
Learn.Laugh.Share. Reallivemoms is right place!
http://www.reallivemoms.com?ocid=TXT_TAGHM&loc=us

If I do the september trip, I would drive to Grand Junction and leave
my vehicle there. Is there a safe place to leave my vehicle in CO, and
how would I get back from Moab, to GJ after the ride?

thank you,
Barb

I meant Juan and Ken Frankenberry,
  All these Frank first and last names got me a little confused. Sounds like a
plan.

--- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Pacheco <npjp2002@...> wrote:
>
> Chris,
>   We'll get to Fruita on Sat. afternoon., and planning on doing the Monument
ride after
we are settled at the campground.Sunday morning is great,18rd is good for
Sunday. We
are looking forward to hook up with you and Frank.
>   My cell is 1-440-915-9155
>   Juan, OPP group
>
>
> starladear111 <cgjj1@...> wrote:
>           Hey Juan and Frank,
> I will be able to join you on Sunday the 20th in Fruita. Where shall we meet?
I will be
> staying in the Aspen valley that weekend and will drive over that
morning(about 2 hrs).
> Early is fine if you guys want to roll out first thing. Are your wives joining
you on your
trip?
> If you have'nt ridden 18rd yet , consider there(lots of climbing in a
beautiful enviro and
> tight flowing singletrack) or maybe Frank B has some suggestions or whatever
you have
> planned works for me since I've ridden these area's before. My cell # is
1-303-817-7724.
> Try to call me mid week to let me know we are on. Looking forward to this
weekend.
> Chris
>
> --- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, Ken Frankenbery <toadking1@> wrote:
> >
> > Frank
> >
> > Hope you can join the "Ohio" boys on our trip out there
> >
> > Will be in Fruita on 20th/21- then head over to Moab for 4 / 5 days
> >
> > Hope we can hook up with you / Chris out there.
> >
> > Trying to get up to speed for leadville race
> >
> > Thanks
> > Ken
> >
> > LyBrec@ wrote:
> > The weather was tough, but the crew and the group 1 attitude was amazing. I
> will be back next year because I know that the chance of that weather
happening again
is
> slim to none. I have been riding in Moab for over 20 years and the prime time
is the first
> two weeks in May because the weather is sun with 70 to 85 degrees. I hope some
of the
> first timers come back and enjoy the ride and views up in the La Sals.
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: jdarmbruster@
> > To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> > Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 6:28 AM
> > Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] Re: Return to Fruita, 5/6/2007, 12:00 pm
> >
> > Weather, yeah. My buddy Steve and I did 18 Hours of Fruita (nothing
> > like a nice tame training ride, eh?) this past weekend. The weather
> > at Highline this weekend was wet, cold, slick, gooey and generally
> > just not great. Can look back now at the race and my memories of the
> > unpleasantness are fading. But my poor bike, it's been hosed down 3
> > times now and there's still mud packed in it. I guess I'm lucky, I'm
> > just down a chain, a complete set of brake & shifting cables and the
> > brake pads, although the front hub makes funny noises and the headset
> > has a new notch-like stop point. At least I was smart enough not to
> > take the Blur once I got it ready for this upcoming weekend. The
> > weather is bound to be nice at least once for a big ride in the desert
> > (we were at 24 Hours of Moab last year, too) in the past 8 months.
> >
> > Dave
> > Denver, CO
> >
> > On 5/6/07, videopelli <videopelli@> wrote:
> > > --- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, rjkragerud@ wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Just returned from "Survivor-pelli". Looks like ride two will have
> > > plenty of adventure! Bring the polar fleece, riding tights, wind/rain
> > > gear, shorts, sunscreen and full finger gloves.
> > > >
> > > > We had a great time. Lots of rain made for an adventure that I none
> > > of us will forget. Thanks to the BIkerpelli gang for pulling off a
> > > wonderful weekend. I'm hoping to thaw out this week.
> > > >
> > > > Ryan
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > Are you kidding! They'll have perfect weather. Good luck out there
> > > guys. I hope you get to ride over the Lasal mountains....
> > >
> > > I'll add my thanks to Alex and crew for making the miserable weather a
> > > truly great time.
> > >
> > >
> > > Jon
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at
> AOL.com.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> > Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Building a website is a piece of cake.
> Yahoo! Small Business gives you all the tools to get online.
>

Hey Juan and Frank,
I will be able to join you on Sunday the 20th in Fruita. Where shall we meet? I will be
staying in the Aspen valley that weekend and will drive over that morning(about 2 hrs).
Early is fine if you guys want to roll out first thing. Are your wives joining you on your trip?
If you have'nt ridden 18rd yet , consider there(lots of climbing in a beautiful enviro and
tight flowing singletrack) or maybe Frank B has some suggestions or whatever you have
planned works for me since I've ridden these area's before. My cell # is 1-303-817-7724.
Try to call me mid week to let me know we are on. Looking forward to this weekend.
Chris

--- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, Ken Frankenbery <toadking1@...> wrote:
>
> Frank
>
> Hope you can join the "Ohio" boys on our trip out there
>
> Will be in Fruita on 20th/21- then head over to Moab for 4 / 5 days
>
> Hope we can hook up with you / Chris out there.
>
> Trying to get up to speed for leadville race
>
> Thanks
> Ken
>
> LyBrec@... wrote:
> The weather was tough, but the crew and the group 1 attitude was amazing. I
will be back next year because I know that the chance of that weather happening again is
slim to none. I have been riding in Moab for over 20 years and the prime time is the first
two weeks in May because the weather is sun with 70 to 85 degrees. I hope some of the
first timers come back and enjoy the ride and views up in the La Sals.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdarmbruster@...
> To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 6:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] Re: Return to Fruita, 5/6/2007, 12:00 pm
>
> Weather, yeah. My buddy Steve and I did 18 Hours of Fruita (nothing
> like a nice tame training ride, eh?) this past weekend. The weather
> at Highline this weekend was wet, cold, slick, gooey and generally
> just not great. Can look back now at the race and my memories of the
> unpleasantness are fading. But my poor bike, it's been hosed down 3
> times now and there's still mud packed in it. I guess I'm lucky, I'm
> just down a chain, a complete set of brake & shifting cables and the
> brake pads, although the front hub makes funny noises and the headset
> has a new notch-like stop point. At least I was smart enough not to
> take the Blur once I got it ready for this upcoming weekend. The
> weather is bound to be nice at least once for a big ride in the desert
> (we were at 24 Hours of Moab last year, too) in the past 8 months.
>
> Dave
> Denver, CO
>
> On 5/6/07, videopelli <videopelli@...> wrote:
> > --- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, rjkragerud@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Just returned from "Survivor-pelli". Looks like ride two will have
> > plenty of adventure! Bring the polar fleece, riding tights, wind/rain
> > gear, shorts, sunscreen and full finger gloves.
> > >
> > > We had a great time. Lots of rain made for an adventure that I none
> > of us will forget. Thanks to the BIkerpelli gang for pulling off a
> > wonderful weekend. I'm hoping to thaw out this week.
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Are you kidding! They'll have perfect weather. Good luck out there
> > guys. I hope you get to ride over the Lasal mountains....
> >
> > I'll add my thanks to Alex and crew for making the miserable weather a
> > truly great time.
> >
> >
> > Jon
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from AOL at
AOL.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
> Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>

Hey Juan and Frank,
   I will be able to join you on Sunday the 20th in Fruita.  Where shall we meet?
I will be
staying in the Aspen valley that weekend and will drive over that morning(about
2 hrs).
Early is fine if you guys want to roll out first thing. Are your wives joining
you on your trip?
If you have'nt ridden 18rd yet , consider there(lots of climbing in a beautiful
enviro and
tight flowing singletrack) or maybe Frank B has some suggestions or whatever you
have
planned works for me since I've ridden these area's before.  My cell # is
1-303-817-7724.
Try to call me mid week to let me know we are on. Looking forward to this
weekend.
Chris


--- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, Ken Frankenbery <toadking1@...> wrote:
>
> Frank
>
>   Hope you can join the "Ohio" boys on our trip out there
>
>   Will be in Fruita on 20th/21- then head over to Moab for 4 / 5 days
>
>   Hope we can hook up with you / Chris out there.
>
>   Trying to get up to speed for leadville race
>
>   Thanks
>   Ken
>
> LyBrec@... wrote:
>             The weather was tough, but the crew and the group 1 attitude was
amazing. I
will be back next year because I know that the chance of that weather happening
again is
slim to none.  I have been riding in Moab for over 20 years and the prime time
is the first
two weeks in May because the weather is sun with 70 to 85 degrees. I hope some
of the
first timers come back and enjoy the ride and views up in the La Sals.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: jdarmbruster@...
> To: Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Mon, 7 May 2007 6:28 AM
> Subject: Re: [Bikerpelli] Re: Return to Fruita, 5/6/2007, 12:00 pm
>
>           Weather, yeah. My buddy Steve and I did 18 Hours of Fruita (nothing
> like a nice tame training ride, eh?) this past weekend. The weather
> at Highline this weekend was wet, cold, slick, gooey and generally
> just not great. Can look back now at the race and my memories of the
> unpleasantness are fading. But my poor bike, it's been hosed down 3
> times now and there's still mud packed in it. I guess I'm lucky, I'm
> just down a chain, a complete set of brake & shifting cables and the
> brake pads, although the front hub makes funny noises and the headset
> has a new notch-like stop point. At least I was smart enough not to
> take the Blur once I got it ready for this upcoming weekend. The
> weather is bound to be nice at least once for a big ride in the desert
> (we were at 24 Hours of Moab last year, too) in the past 8 months.
>
> Dave
> Denver, CO
>
> On 5/6/07, videopelli <videopelli@...> wrote:
> > --- In Bikerpelli@yahoogroups.com, rjkragerud@ wrote:
> > >
> > > Just returned from "Survivor-pelli". Looks like ride two will have
> > plenty of adventure! Bring the polar fleece, riding tights, wind/rain
> > gear, shorts, sunscreen and full finger gloves.
> > >
> > > We had a great time. Lots of rain made for an adventure that I none
> > of us will forget. Thanks to the BIkerpelli gang for pulling off a
> > wonderful weekend. I'm hoping to thaw out this week.
> > >
> > > Ryan
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Are you kidding! They'll have perfect weather. Good luck out there
> > guys. I hope you get to ride over the Lasal mountains....
> >
> > I'll add my thanks to Alex and crew for making the miserable weather a
> > truly great time.
> >
> >
> > Jon
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
>   AOL now offers free email to everyone. Find out more about what's free from
AOL at
AOL.com.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
>  Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.
>