--- In Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "lone_wolf_92001"
<lone_wolf_9@...> wrote:

> One major decision will be whether to structure Volume 2 primarily as
> a set of key re-prints and excerpts of period sources to serve as a
> resource for neo-Bartitsu styles, or to incorporate more of our own
> material - effectively presenting the "Bartitsu Society curriculum".

Any comments on this?

To elaborate a bit and hopefully stir some discussion;  having
presented everything we know about Bartitsu history and the canonical
syllabus in Volume 1, we're kind of at a cross-roads now.  People both
within and outside this group are already presenting Bartitsu-themed
workshops in various locations.  Assuming that we want to press ahead
with the second volume of the Compendium, we really need to figure out
where we want to take this material, and how much "ownership" we want
to exert upon it.

What do you think?

Tony

--- In Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "james" <jimmy_fatwing@...> wrote:
>
> Craig let me have a sneak preview of this and I was very impressed!  A
> quick glimpse of some excellent core skills and weaponry.  And I'll
> admit I loved the music and have since bugged his 'better half' for some
> info ;¬)

> Cross posted to the Bartitsu list as I think they'd be interested also!

Very nice to see the old DdlR skills brought into the present day.

Tony

>>http://sector7g.wurzel6.de/pdfcreator/index_en.htm
>>
>>

>Well, taht's way beyond my knowledge (plus I use Netscape for
>borwsing!). In any event, the access still seems to work for anyone
>who wants to look up articles/adverts on bartitsu or any other
>subject covered by The Time sover the last 200 years. Ju-jitsu
>anybody?
>
>

Sorry, I wasn't clear. If you get that application (it's free) you can
save any page from any application as a PDF file.

Cheers,

~Neil

--- In Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com, will thomas <baritsumaster@...>
wrote:
>
> Okay guys and gals, when do we start the second manual? ;)

Hi Will,

I'm game to offer some ideas and maybe co-edit with someone but the
stage combat history book project will be taking up a lot of computer
time this year.

One major decision will be whether to structure Volume 2 primarily as
a set of key re-prints and excerpts of period sources to serve as a
resource for neo-Bartitsu styles, or to incorporate more of our own
material - effectively presenting the "Bartitsu Society curriculum".

Tony

London-ish, I venture in a couple of times a week to go to the office (sounds posher than it is, don't panic).

 

When are you in town then Will?

 

James

UK

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of will thomas
Sent: 03 May 2006 16:16
To: Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Bartitsu_Forum] Last minute notice of interesting online Bartitsu articles

 

It most definitely...could be....

-Will

Ps. Are you in the London area?

It's all about you isn't it Will ;)  I'll post it now for you....

 

James

UK

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of will thomas
Sent: 03 May 2006 15:00
To: Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Bartitsu_Forum] Last minute notice of interesting online Bartitsu articles

 

Could you post it to the Bartitsu files as well?

-Will

james <jimmy_fatwing@...> wrote:

Just posted the Vigny image to the DDLR list.

 

Did you get the Edith Garrud / Suffragette mention Tony?  If not I'll post it to the files section.

 

And thanks Peter, I got some nice bits.  They have the Times online at the British Library but it's print only....and d'ya think it prints nicely onto one page.....no way Jose!!!

 

James

UK

 

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Bartitsu_Forum
group.

  File        : /VignysFencingAcademy.jpg
  Uploaded by : jimmy_fatwing <jimmy_fatwing@...>
  Description : The Times, Mar 28, 1907

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bartitsu_Forum/files/VignysFencingAcademy.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

jimmy_fatwing <jimmy_fatwing@...>

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Bartitsu_Forum
group.

   File        : /VignysFencingAcademy.jpg
   Uploaded by : jimmy_fatwing <jimmy_fatwing@...>
   Description : The Times, Mar 28, 1907

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bartitsu_Forum/files/VignysFencingAcademy.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

jimmy_fatwing <jimmy_fatwing@...>

Just posted the Vigny image to the DDLR list.

 

Did you get the Edith Garrud / Suffragette mention Tony?  If not I'll post it to the files section.

 

And thanks Peter, I got some nice bits.  They have the Times online at the British Library but it's print only....and d'ya think it prints nicely onto one page.....no way Jose!!!

 

James

UK

 

-----Original Message-----
From: Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony Wolf
Sent: 02 May 2006 13:54
To: Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Bartitsu_Forum] Last minute notice of interesting online bartitsu articles

 

Peter,

thanks for the link.  I must have got in just before the trial ended -
searched Barton-Wright for births, deaths and marriages on the off-chance
that any of these applied, but no (apparent) dice.  Thanks to Ray Girvan we
already have all the "Bartitsu as martial art" references but some of the
therapy/weight loss stuff was new.  I saved a few odds and ends including a
small advertisement for Vigny's school:

"Vigny's Fencing Academy
2 Hinde street, Manchester Square, W-

Vigny's combined Art of Defence, which blends all that is most useful in
English and French B.oxing and in Jiu-Jitsu.  The new art of Self Defence
with a Walking Stick is acknowledged by all experts to be the most effective
means of defence againstr a number of assailants."

and one for Vernon Smith's Institute, which I'd never heard of:

"Ju-Jitsu, Boxing, Fencing, La Savate and Swedish Exercises
Taught at Vernon Smith's Institute
Clarence House, 284a High Holborn, W.C.
(Exactly opposite British Museum Tube Station)
Instructor to Hon. Artillery Co., etc. etc.
Earl of Lonsdale writes:  'I take great interest in your Self Defence and
Physical Culture.'
(Illustrated Brochure showing methods, etc. shown on request)"

Tony

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the Bartitsu_Forum
group.

   File        : /suffrage.jpg
   Uploaded by : jimmy_fatwing <jimmy_fatwing@...>
   Description : Edith Garrud, The Times [date tbc]

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Bartitsu_Forum/files/suffrage.jpg

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

jimmy_fatwing <jimmy_fatwing@...>

We've sometimes informally referred to Bartitsu as "Edwardian Jeet
Kune Do", on the assumption that it was an eclectic martial art
drawing techniques from several distinct sources.  This definition
would still work if we were trying to explain it quickly, but I wonder
if the JKD parallel might be deeper that that.

Bartitsu may never have had a specific curriculum of its own, distinct
from those of Vigny's savate and cane method, jiujitsu and boxing.
The Club existed for a couple of years at most, and although B-W's
plan was that members/students would take what was best from all the
different source arts, we don't know if that ever actually happened.
Likewise, were there ever "Bartitsu kata", or even a list of defined
Bartitsu techniques? If so, we don't know anything about them beyond
what B-W published.  We don't know if he elaborated or adapted any of
the jiujitsu techniques in his first articles, or simply presented
them as he had learned them.  Regarding his cryptic reference to 300
techniques, my feeling is the B-W either pulled the figure out of the
air, or that he was referring to an obscure jiujitsu ryu - possibly
Shinden-Fudo - that may have been known for including 300 techniques.

I very much doubt that, when B-W wrote his original articles for
Pearson's Magazine, he had anything like a formal Bartitsu curriculum
in place; in fact, it's not even clear that he had considered the
potential influence of savate and stick fighting on the Bartitsu
curriculum.  Basically, when he wrote these first essays, B-W was
armed with some jiujitsu, a smattering of experience in other styles
(if his later reports can be taken at face value), and a vision.

By the time the Black and White Budget article was issued, and by the
time B-W had delivered his lecture to the Japan Society, he had been
working with Vigny for the best part of a year and was able to
confidently define Bartitsu in more concrete terms.   However, by this
time, the Bartitsu Club itself was soon to close its doors.  Did he
have the time and opportunity to develop the art as a unique entity?

This begs the question of whether Bartitsu was ever, in strict terms,
a "martial art" in and of itself, or whether it was, perhaps mostly by
force of circumstance, closer to Bruce Lee's JKD ideal; a process of
ongoing cross-training.  I'm not saying that this was necessarily
B-W's intention, but it does seem likely to have been the state of
events at the point when, for most practical purposes, Bartitsu died out.

Tony

Quoting james <jimmy_fatwing@...>:

> And thanks Peter, I got some nice bits. They have the Times online at
> the British Library but it's print only....and d'ya think it prints
> nicely onto one page.....no way Jose!!!

Yeah, I had problems with getting a full
image of something saved on my hard drive
- usually bits missing. I ended up just
printing stuff off and will scan it one
day when I  buy one.

Cheers,

Peter


Peter Hassall
Stunt Performer
Fight Choreographer
Ph 021-167-1837
http://www.stuntman.co.nz
PO Box 27432, Marion Street, Wellington, 1, NEW ZEALAND
NZ Stunt Guild & Independent Fight Directors Guild member

Quoting Tony Wolf <lone_wolf_9@...>:

> Peter,
>
> thanks for the link. I must have got in just before the trial ended -
>
> "Vigny's Fencing Academy
>
> and one for Vernon Smith's Institute, which I'd never heard of:
>
> "Ju-Jitsu, Boxing, Fencing, La Savate and Swedish Exercises

Glad you found something useful, Tony. I am just
sorry the notice was so late to the group! To be
honest, I didn't think of this group until about
a week after I heard of the free trial. Obviously
some big libraries overseas have The Times online
available to people, so you may have the chance
to do more research during your travels. It sure
is a heck of a lot easier having 200 years of a
newspaper keyword searchable than having to slowly
trawl through each individual paper!

Cheers,

Peter


Peter Hassall
Stunt Performer
Fight Choreographer
Ph 021-167-1837
http://www.stuntman.co.nz
PO Box 27432, Marion Street, Wellington, 1, NEW ZEALAND
NZ Stunt Guild & Independent Fight Directors Guild member

--- In Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com, "james" <jimmy_fatwing@...> wrote:
>
> Just posted the Vigny image to the DDLR list.
>
> Did you get the Edith Garrud / Suffragette mention Tony?  If not I'll
> post it to the files section.

Do you mean the jujitsu demonstration for a women's group?  I noted it
but didn't save the image.

Tony

Peter,

thanks for the link.  I must have got in just before the trial ended -
searched Barton-Wright for births, deaths and marriages on the off-chance
that any of these applied, but no (apparent) dice.  Thanks to Ray Girvan we
already have all the "Bartitsu as martial art" references but some of the
therapy/weight loss stuff was new.  I saved a few odds and ends including a
small advertisement for Vigny's school:

"Vigny's Fencing Academy
2 Hinde street, Manchester Square, W-

Vigny's combined Art of Defence, which blends all that is most useful in
English and French B.oxing and in Jiu-Jitsu.  The new art of Self Defence
with a Walking Stick is acknowledged by all experts to be the most effective
means of defence againstr a number of assailants."

and one for Vernon Smith's Institute, which I'd never heard of:

"Ju-Jitsu, Boxing, Fencing, La Savate and Swedish Exercises
Taught at Vernon Smith's Institute
Clarence House, 284a High Holborn, W.C.
(Exactly opposite British Museum Tube Station)
Instructor to Hon. Artillery Co., etc. etc.
Earl of Lonsdale writes:  'I take great interest in your Self Defence and
Physical Culture.'
(Illustrated Brochure showing methods, etc. shown on request)"

Tony

_________________________________________________________________
Looking for love? Check out XtraMSN Personals
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-----Original Message-----
From: Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf Of Peter Hassall
Sent: Tuesday, May 02, 2006 3:12 AM
To: Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Bartitsu_Forum] Re: Last minute notice of interesting online bartitsu articles

--- In Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Neil Evans Bryant
<evansbryant@...> wrote:
> I realize I'm late to this thing, but for future reference, You
can get
> a virtual printer that will work this out for you. A good one for
> Windows is:
> http://sector7g.wurzel6.de/pdfcreator/index_en.htm
>
> It's freeware, built on GhostScript and RedMon, and basically
installs a
> printer that saves whatever you print to it as a PDF file. If
you're
> familiar with Adobe Distiller, this is a free version of the same
concept.
>
> For grabbing text, I tend to install (in Windows) the 'Generic
Text
> Printer' driver, and set it to 'print to file'. A lot of things
that
> don't even appear to be text, when sent to that driver, will dump
a
> textfile. PDFs, etc, might or might not give you a text dump,
depending
> on a lot of internal things.
>
> HTH
>
> ~Neil
Well, taht's way beyond my knowledge (plus I use Netscape for
borwsing!). In any event, the access still seems to work for anyone
who wants to look up articles/adverts on bartitsu or any other
subject covered by The Time sover the last 200 years. Ju-jitsu
anybody?

Cheers,

Peter

--- In Bartitsu_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Neil Evans Bryant
<evansbryant@...> wrote:
> I realize I'm late to this thing, but for future reference, You
can get
> a virtual printer that will work this out for you. A good one for
> Windows is:
> http://sector7g.wurzel6.de/pdfcreator/index_en.htm
>
> It's freeware, built on GhostScript and RedMon, and basically
installs a
> printer that saves whatever you print to it as a PDF file. If
you're
> familiar with Adobe Distiller, this is a free version of the same
concept.
>
> For grabbing text, I tend to install (in Windows) the 'Generic
Text
> Printer' driver, and set it to 'print to file'. A lot of things
that
> don't even appear to be text, when sent to that driver, will dump
a
> textfile. PDFs, etc, might or might not give you a text dump,
depending
> on a lot of internal things.
>
> HTH
>
> ~Neil
Well, taht's way beyond my knowledge (plus I use Netscape for
borwsing!). In any event, the access still seems to work for anyone
who wants to look up articles/adverts on bartitsu or any other
subject covered by The Time sover the last 200 years. Ju-jitsu
anybody?

Cheers,

Peter

Peter Hassall wrote:

>Cannot save articles and email them. They have something to stop
>that. can only suggest printing them, then scanning.
>
>
I realize I'm late to this thing, but for future reference, You can get
a virtual printer that will work this out for you. A good one for
Windows is:
http://sector7g.wurzel6.de/pdfcreator/index_en.htm

It's freeware, built on GhostScript and RedMon, and basically installs a
printer that saves whatever you print to it as a PDF file. If you're
familiar with Adobe Distiller, this is a free version of the same concept.

For grabbing text, I tend to install (in Windows) the 'Generic Text
Printer' driver, and set it to 'print to file'. A lot of things that
don't even appear to be text, when sent to that driver, will dump a
textfile. PDFs, etc, might or might not give you a text dump, depending
on a lot of internal things.

HTH

~Neil

On Fri, 2006-04-28 at 23:32 +0000, lone_wolf_92001 wrote:
> This is the text of the article which will be appearing in next
> month's Soho Clarion, the community newspaper serving London's Soho
> district where the Bartitsu Club was based back in the day.  I wrote
> this (very basic, introductory) essay towards increasing local
> awareness of B-W and Bartitsu re. the memorial plaque project.

Excellent!  Good job!

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

There is a free trial for The Times newspaper online database that
ends today!!!  Go to this link:
http://trials.galegroup.com/nlw2006/history.html
Scroll down and click on Times Digital Archive
Click on the "in entire article content" button, then type in
bartitsu (or whatever keyword or "phrase in quotes").
When you click on one of the results use the drop down box at top to
make it 200% size. Then scroll down and click Standard Article Print
to get best printing results.
Looks like Barton-Wright helped people with obesity, too!
The last result (28 of 28) is an orbituary.
Cannot save articles and email them. They have something to stop
that. can only suggest printing them, then scanning.

Cheers,

Peter Hassall
stunts@...
http://wwww.stuntman.co.nz