Adil,

Try these steps...

1. Make sure you have proper arrow to bow match.
2. Make sure your brace height is within the acceptable range for your
bow's length.
3. Make sure you button tension is at medium for starting out.
4. Make sure that the center of the arrow is touching the center of
the button. If the arrow sits too high or too low, it will cause the
plunger head to wear unevenly. Which effects the horizontal
positioning of the arrow. This adjustment is normally made by
adjusting the arrow rest's vertical position. Some bows allow for
vertical plunger movement, but I would rather you set it at center,
then adjust the arrow rest.
5. Make sure that the horizontal position of the button is correct,
and that your arrow rest arm does not extent past the outside diameter
of your arrows.
6. Make sure your nock height is within the acceptable initial range.
7. Test for best nock/vane position. Shooting a group of three arrows,
make a slight adjustment in vane positioning (the same for all three
arrows) and powder test the vanes for clearance problems.

Here's a lengthy way to determine your nock/vane positioning. If you
are pretty consistent, then try this from 30m:

A. Measure and mark the nock/vane position, then write the nock/vane
position on a paper plate, then shoot one group of three powder tested
arrows, all with the same nock/vane position.
B. Note on the paper plate if you observed any clearance problems with
the powder test. Then set aside the paper plate.
C. Start a new paper plate, rotate the nock/vane position about 3mm on
all three arrows. Mark the paper plate with the new nock/vane position.
D. Shoot again, one end of the three arrows. Write the powder test
results on the paper plate.
E. Follow the above steps, rotating the nock/vane position 3mm at a
time until you have covered essentially 1/3 of the arrow's circumference.
F. Once complete line up all of the paper plates. Remove all the
plates that you have marked with negative results for the powder test.
G. Evaluate the remaining plates. Find the one with the best group,
that's the nock/vane position that I would set all of my arrows to.

You can get by with just a few powder tests, but the above method will
help to reduce even the slightest contact, by defining the best
nock/vane position.

I think if you follow all of the above you will correct any clearance
problems you might be experiencing. If you are still having problems,
then I would say it is more an issue of the "user," than it is the
equipment.

Let me know how that helps you… Also, refer to the Easton tuning guide
which is available online and in our files section of our group website.

Hope that helps,

-Daniel Perez


--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, Adil Jdidi <adiljdidi@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> i get the vane cut always from the same place when i shoot, is it
due to berger button or a problem with clicker?
> and how could i aoid it
>
> Thanks
>
> Adil
>
> FAR club - Morocco.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
___________________________________________________________________________

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>

First off, I'm no expert on physics, but I'll give it a go.

Yes, there is a relation. The lighter the arrow the faster will be its initial velocity (However, the downrange velocity will vary depending on the arrow's profile).

Beyond that there are other considerations which physics can't account for... the human element! That is the faster your arrows fly, the less room there will be for error.  That is, the bow becomes less forgiving of imperfections in your execution of the shot.

There's an old saying in the archery world... "It's better to have a slow 10, than a fast 7." So, unless you are certain that your execution is rock solid, I would recommend that you 1). First check to see that your arrows are properly matched to your draw weight and that they are not so out of tune that you can't bring them within an acceptable range. 2) Try a more forgiving set-up, which might include lower poundage, or heavier arrows, or a combination of both, and a slightly higher brace height. 3) Anytime you make significant changes to the setup of your equipment, such as changing arrows or changing limbs, it will require that you also re-tune your bow.

Refer to the Easton tuning guide for more details on tuning.

Best of luck,

-Daniel Perez
Archery Coach

Once upon a time, I was quite an Olympic Style Archer, but 16 years
ago, after 2 very bad auto accidents, I had to stop.

Circumstances have changed so that I'm starting---very slowly--to get
back into shooting.  I still have all my old equipment and I think
I've kept in very good shape.

But unlike the first time around I'll likely be on my own, at least
for a while so I was hoping if I could get a few basic questions
answered that will help me get back in the swing of things...


1. If I could pick one book to help me reteach myself the sport what
should it be?


2. Are there any good websites for purchasing recurve style equipment?
  Things like sights, cases, targets, and the like.


3. Is there any reason a 17-18 year old Check-It sight shouldn't be in
good working order?  I've visually inspected it for rust, etc and it
appears to be clean.

Any help or advice would be appreciated.

Dale
Raleigh, NC

Dear Archery Coach,

This posting is feedback. I followed your suggestions:

I purchased an modest bowsite for my new recurve bow - a Cartel
Champion, $50, with an open aperture.

I measured and corrected my brace height and made sure it was within
the range recommended by the bow manufacturer.

I also reset my nocking point, which had been to 'high' by .5 inch!
(This seemed to be a resut of resetting the bracing height.)

Here are my results:
I went to the range for two sessions, shot at 20M and 30M and...wow,
easily the first time I was satisfied, no - proud! - of my groupings.

Archery is enjoyable and becomes FUN when you get decent results.

Thank you, Archery Coach!

Your modest - but erudite - advice was right on!

Marty
Torrance, CA

Hello all, I just joined this group recently because I felt the
Archery bug bite me again :) I started shooting when I was about 11 and
have shot off and on for the last 24 years...I'm now 35. It's been
about 8 years since I have shot competively in local State and County
tourney's in Ohio and Indiana. I went through the JOAD program to
Expert Archer level and assisted in coaching with the Pierson's
(Charlie and Mildred) and the Blum's (Don and Debbie) whom I have since
lost track of in the past 10 years :( I guess I was wondering first off
if anyone has heard how my coaches are or even heard of them? I also
was wondering what clubs are still around in my viciinity of
Cincinnati, Ohio if any? I was considering blowing off the dust from
the bow case and flinging some arrows down the lane.

Regards,

Trenton Meenach

Dan,
Many thanks for all the quality advice!

First, though, I have to tell you that I dropped golf for archery.
I wanted a peaceful, relaxing sport/pastime that I could finally
master and enjoy whenever I go shooting.

I now see I traded one mind-game for another! :-)

I misstated the bow size: it is 66" (25 riser & 'long' limbs).

My arrows are 30.5" overall - the Lancaster Techs figured my draw
length at 29" when they sized the arrows - so I don't think the
equipment is at fault.

I will double-check the brace height, add a spacer to my tab and
always use the clicker - all good tips.

The nearest Archery Store is in Fullerton. I wonder will they size me
and weigh the bow if I did not buy it there?

I will also contact a Coach to watch my shot sequence.

Too bad you are in AZ. I really admire your advice and clarity.

Many thanks and I'll report back on my progress.

Marty
Torrance, CA

--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Perez <bowcoach@...>
wrote:
>
> Marty,
>
> A couple things for you to think about...
>
> 1: Your setup was done via Lancaster archery supply based on 28#
limbs, which are rated normally @ 28 inches of draw. A better way to
determine you arrow/bow match is to take your bow into a shop and
have them measure your draw length, then put the bow on a scale and
draw it to your draw length to measure the corresponding poundage.
Use this new indicated poundage to check your arrow selection... They
can also do this at an archery shop. Since your bow tiller can be
adjusted to increase at 10%, and since I don't know where the tiller
is set on your bow, your poundage could be anywhere from 28-31 Lbs
(considering a 28 inch draw & assuming the accuracy of the indicated
limb poundage is good).
>
> You might have mismatched arrows as a consequence of only utilizing
the standard limb poundage and not your actual poundage at full draw.
>
> 2: Make sure that your brace height is set at the initial
recommended height. Which should be:
>
> For your 25" Riser your initial brace height should be between 8
1/2 - 9 1/4" for long limbs, 8 1/4 - 9" for medium limbs, and 8 - 8
3/4" for short limbs. An incorrect brace height could impact the
arrows flight because an incorrect brace height means that the arrow
is leaving the string at an incorrect time, thus clearance problems
could result. The brace height should always be the same every time
you shoot, so get in the habit of checking it. Once you have
developed some consistency you can learn to fine tune the brace
height, but for now just set it somewhere within the above range for
your specific set-up. Note: You indicated that your bow was 60" long,
which is not possible with Hoyt limbs and risers.
>
> 3: I strongly recommend a spacer to be used with your tab. Shooting
without a spacer presents a lot of problems, one being that of
duplication. By that I mean if you could measure the force applied on
the nock while at full draw from your index and middle fingers you
would find that you cannot duplicate the exact amount of force in the
same position on the nock every single shot, thus not using a spacer
introduces a fair amount of inconsistency to each shot. Having a good
spacer that's comfortable and works as intended will eliminate "all"
force that would have been applied by your fingers to the nock, thus
reducing a variable of inconsistency.
>
> Also do not use the shelf provided with your tab.
>
> 4: Have you trimmed your tab correctly? I would suggest you contact
a coach who is familiar with recurves and have him/her take a look at
your tab. You can conduct some simple powder tests on the tab to
determine if it needs to be trimmed or if it has already been trimmed
too much. There are other sources on this topic as well.
>
> 5: I recommend that you get in the habit of using you clicker all
the time. Not using the clicker is the same as warming up without
stabilizers, then practicing with them on. The whole process you have
described is not conducive to consistency and duplicity! And that's
about 95% of the sport. If you are still trying to master the clicker
then I recommend that be a focus area for a few practice sessions.
Read and follow the instructions on my guide to the clicker, which is
a document posted on the group page. incorporate the practice routine
outlined in that document.
>
> 6: Hire a coach for a day and have him look over your shot
sequence. Since you are learning now, it will be common for there to
be many inconsistencies which will influence arrow flight. It's just
too difficult for me to speculate on every possible variable that
might be your problem, when in fact it is most likely a combination
of things anyhow.
>
> Well, I hope this was of some help to you. Best of luck.
>
> -Dan
>
>

Dan,
Many thanks for all the quality advice!

First, though, I have to tell you that I dropped golf for archery.
I wanted a peaceful, relaxing sport/pastime that I could finally
master and enjoy whenever I go shooting.

I now see I traded one mind-game for another! :-)

I misstated the bow size: it is 66" (25 riser & 'long' limbs).

My arrows are 30.5" overall - the Lancaster Techs figured my draw
length at 29" when they sized the arrows - so I don't think the
equipment is at fault.

I will double-check the brace height, add a spacer to my tab and
always use the clicker - all good tips.

The nearest Archery Store is in Fullerton. I wonder will they size me
and weigh the bow if I did not buy it there?

I will also contact a Coach to watch my shot sequence.

Too bad you are in AZ. I really admire your advice and clarity.

Many thanks and I'll report back on my progress.

Marty
Torrance, CA

--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, Daniel Perez <bowcoach@...>
wrote:
>
> Marty,
>
> A couple things for you to think about...
>
> 1: Your setup was done via Lancaster archery supply based on  28#
limbs, which are rated normally @ 28 inches of draw. A better way to
determine you arrow/bow match is to take your bow into a shop and
have them measure your draw length, then put the bow on a scale and
draw it to your draw length to measure the corresponding poundage.
Use this new indicated poundage to check your arrow selection... They
can also do this at an archery shop.  Since your bow tiller can be
adjusted to increase at 10%, and since I don't know where the tiller
is set on your bow, your poundage could be anywhere from 28-31 Lbs
(considering a 28 inch draw & assuming the accuracy of the indicated
limb poundage is good).
>
> You might have mismatched arrows as a consequence of only utilizing
the standard limb poundage and not your actual poundage at full draw.
>
> 2: Make sure that your brace height is set at the initial
recommended height. Which should be:
>
> For your 25" Riser your initial brace height should be between 8
1/2 - 9 1/4" for long limbs, 8 1/4 - 9" for medium limbs, and 8 - 8
3/4" for short limbs. An incorrect brace height could impact the
arrows flight because an incorrect brace height means that the arrow
is leaving the string at an incorrect time, thus clearance problems
could result. The brace height should always be the same every time
you shoot, so get in the habit of checking it. Once you have
developed some consistency you can learn to fine tune the brace
height, but for now just set it somewhere within the above range for
your specific set-up. Note: You indicated that your bow was 60" long,
which is not possible with Hoyt limbs and risers.
>
> 3: I strongly recommend a spacer to be used with your tab. Shooting
without a spacer presents a lot of problems, one being that of
duplication. By that I mean if you could measure the force applied on
the nock while at full draw from your index and middle fingers you
would find that you cannot duplicate the exact amount of force in the
same position on the nock every single shot, thus not using a spacer
introduces a fair amount of inconsistency to each shot. Having a good
spacer that's comfortable and works as intended will eliminate "all"
force that would have been applied by your fingers to the nock, thus
reducing a variable of inconsistency.
>
> Also do not use the shelf provided with your tab.
>
> 4: Have you trimmed your tab correctly? I would suggest you contact
a coach who is familiar with recurves and have him/her take a look at
your tab. You can conduct some simple powder tests on the tab to
determine if it needs to be trimmed or if it has already been trimmed
too much. There are other sources on this topic as well.
>
> 5: I recommend that you get in the habit of using you clicker all
the time. Not using the clicker is the same as warming up without
stabilizers, then practicing with them on. The whole process you have
described is not conducive to consistency and duplicity! And that's
about 95% of the sport. If you are still trying to master the clicker
then I recommend that be a focus area for a few practice sessions.
Read and follow the instructions on my guide to the clicker, which is
a document posted on the group page. incorporate the practice routine
outlined in that document.
>
> 6: Hire a coach for a day and have him look over your shot
sequence. Since you are learning now, it will be common for there to
be many inconsistencies which will influence arrow flight. It's just
too difficult for me to speculate on every possible variable that
might be your problem, when in fact it is most likely a combination
of things anyhow.
>
> Well, I hope this was of some help to you. Best of luck.
>
> -Dan
>
>

Hi All,
I am a beginning recurve archer with my first bow.

I was out shooting for the fourth time last Friday - I shot about 200
arrows over 2.5 hours at the range.

I was pretty happy with my stance, bow hand, bow arm and shoulder
positions and felt my draw was smooth - both with and without using
the clicker (I warm up without the clicker).

Now, maybe this is a tuning issue or maybe just a rookie shooter
issue but my arrows rarely went 'straight' in at 30M.

Usually, the nock was pointing most often back to the left and
sometimes to the right.

I sometimes observed some obvious fish-tailing but not too often.

Perhaps with experience, I'll settle down but I was thinking it was
my release that is the problem. After a while, I took my index finger
off the string and just shot with my middle and ring fingers - which
seemed to net a straighter shot.

I use a Cavalier finger-tab without spacers.

My bow and arrows were matched by Lancaster Archery Tech Support:
60" bow, 25" Eclipse riser, 28 pound limbs, #2212 Eclipse X7 arrows.

Any thoughts and/or advice?

Thanks,

Marty
Torrance, CA

Hi All,
I am a beginning recurve archer with my first bow.

I was out shooting for the fourth time last Friday - I shot about 200
arrows over 2.5 hours at the range.

I was pretty happy with my stance, bow hand, bow arm and shoulder
positions and felt my draw was smooth - both with and without using
the clicker (I warm up without the clicker).

Now, maybe this is a tuning issue or maybe just a rookie shooter
issue but my arrows rarely went 'straight' in at 30M.

Usually, the nock was pointing most often back to the left and
sometimes to the right.

I sometimes observed some obvious fish-tailing but not too often.

Perhaps with experience, I'll settle down but I was thinking it was
my release that is the problem. After a while, I took my index finger
off the string and just shot with my middle and ring fingers - which
seemed to net a straighter shot.

I use a Cavalier finger-tab without spacers.

My bow and arrows were matched by Lancaster Archery Tech Support:
60" bow, 25" Eclipse riser, 28 pound limbs, #2212 Eclipse X7 arrows.

Any thoughts and/or advice?

Thanks,

Marty
Torrance, CA

Daniel,

I have thought about moving to the left coast (i live on the right...NC).  I am a CPA by trade and can practice nearly anywhere.  I would like to be near an archery epicenter where i can join an active olympic style archery club and work with a good coach.  Please send me your advice on what city(s) or town(s) you would consider in CA.

Thanks,
Dave

---

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Browse Top Cars by "Green Rating" at Yahoo! Autos' Green Center.

Dan,
Thank you for your response to my post on the Olympic Recurve Yahoo
site and for the invitation to join this site, also.
The photos and files contained here are the type of current
supplemental information I was seeking - for example, the article on
clicker positioning. When I bought my clicker, there were
instructions on how to bolt it on but not how to position it for
better shooting results! Thus the need for pertinent information.

On the Recurve site, I had already read your very helpful postings on
shooting, practicing and following-through. These were excellent.
You have a very clear, concise and thoughtful writing style. Your
communication skills must make you an effective coach, too.

I originally saw you listed in the NAA Directory as in Pomona, CA.
Have you recently relocated to Flagstaff, AZ?

Where do you coach and are you affiliated with any college teams?

I look forward to visiting this site often as I progress
from 'wannabe' to arrow-shagger to competent archer.

Best Wishes,

Marty DeWan
Torrance, CA

Dan,
Thank you for your response to my post on the Olympic Recurve Yahoo
site and for the invitation to join this site, also.
The photos and files contained here are the type of current
supplemental information I was seeking - for example, the article on
clicker positioning. When I bought my clicker, there were
instructions on how to bolt it on but not how to position it for
better shooting results! Thus the need for pertinent information.

On the Recurve site, I had already read your very helpful postings on
shooting, practicing and following-through. These were excellent.
You have a very clear, concise and thoughtful writing style. Your
communication skills must make you an effective coach, too.

I originally saw you listed in the NAA Directory as in Pomona, CA.
Have you recently relocated to Flagstaff, AZ?

Where do you coach and are you affiliated with any college teams?

I look forward to visiting this site often as I progress
from 'wannabe' to arrow-shagger to competent archer.

Best Wishes,

Marty DeWan
Torrance, CA

Dan,

Thinking about shooting lots of arrows each practice session got me thinking about my setup etc.  I go through a mental checklist of about 9-10 things each time I shoot an arrow.  Consequently, I am only shooting about 3 to 4 arrows per minute.  This translates into about 140 shots per hour or less when you include time to retrieve the arrows.  I have shot a lot of 3D competitions this year but would like to get into some Olympic/FITA style events.  Would it be more beneficial to tweak my routine so I shoot more quickly or just leave things as they are?

 Also, I am shooting about 8 arrows per end during practice.  Do you suggest using more arrows so I don't have to retrieve them as often?  The only problem is the target gets cluttered if i use too many arrows.

Regards,
Dave (HikinOut)

---

Groups are talking. We´re listening. Check out the handy changes to Yahoo! Groups.

HikinOut,

I would also refer you to message #8 of this group which might  be of further help.

http://sports.groups.yahoo.com/group/AskArcheryCoach/messages

-Dan

HikinOut <hikinout@yahoo.com> wrote:

Dan,

I am going through some inconsistencies during my release. I have
been told by one person to focus on a spot on the target just before I
release the arrow. I have been told by another that i should focus on
my follow through just before my release. What is your advice.

---

Do you Yahoo!?
Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

This is a question I received and thought would make for a good
discussion.

Dan,

I am looking for a coach. Too bad you live so close to the left coast.
  I'm on the right....extreme right .....near the border of North
Carolina and South Carolina.  There is very little FITA style archery
here.  I did some research and found one coach nearby that is involved
in Olympic style.  His name is Lenny Schwade.  Have you heard of him?
  If so, do you know anything about his level of experience etc.  Any
info. would be helpful.

Thanks,
Dave

------------------------------------------------------------------------

My Response:

I don't know the person you mentioned. I may have met him at one time,
but I don't recall.

Don't be too discouraged by not having a coach in your area. Progress
can still be made without a coach. One has to be a little more
disciplined I suppose, but many very competitive archers have managed
to get pretty far without a coach. Sounds like I'm talking myself out
of a job, but it's the truth.

In almost every case, I meet people who want advice on one thing or
another or who want to know "what their doing wrong," something I try
not to put too much weight on in the first place. In almost all of
these cases, the issue isn't that technique has to be looked at or
that form has to be tweaked, rather, the answer is simply, "you're not
shooting enough." I always get a funny look when I tell people that
because they are used to, and are expecting, a response that suggests
changes here and there and to tweak this and tweak that. But the truth
is I think coaches tend to over-coach too much sometimes when the
answer partly lies in the volume of the archer's shooting. Weekend
shooters shouldn't expect to achieve much more than the results
stemming from only shooting on the weekends, period. So keep that in
mind. That's rule number 1.

With that said, there is rule 2: which is that I think practice when
in it is done should be commensurate with the archers goals, and
should have a deliberate purpose to it. I guess what I mean is that if
you only plan on shooting for fun, then keep your sessions appropriate
to that goal. If you plan to be competitive, you will also need to
tailor your sessions to that goal, if you want to be internationally
competitive, you need to be more realistic with your goals, and
persistent in your effort to achieve them.

Having a specific purpose for each practice session gives one an area
to focus, illuminates the temptation to try and address other issues
which are not part of a specific plan for that session, and gives more
definitive feedback in terms of progress.

So for example, if you are working on follow through then each
practice session should have as its purpose, addressing follow
through. Other areas which are not directly connected can be set
aside, (even if they warrant attention), this frees you from having to
approach each shot with a mental checklist and can lead to a much more
effective practice session.

Another thing to consider is how to prioritize one aspect of form or
technique over the other. This is obviously difficult considering
every aspect of the shot is interconnected. However, I would suggest,
as other coaches do, to start from the bottom up. Analyze one's stance
first and work your way up. Some areas can be worked on simultaneously
without too much distraction, such as follow through and relaxing the
bow hand. There are other examples where combining areas can work
well. Sometimes coaches are questioned when they choose to focus on
one area when another area seems completely out of concert with what
is acceptable, but a lot of times making changes in one area can
influence and correct behavior in another area without specifically
addressing that issue.

So for example one of the things I suggest to people who are
essentially their own coach, and I'm no expert on this by the way, is
to have a special score card that has written on it the date and
pertinent info, and what your focus area or areas are for that
session. The card should allow you do be able to rate yourself after
each shot, say on a scale from 1-5 (5 being "It felt good," or "good
execution," etc). So after each shot, pull the card out and jot down
how you would rate your performance for that specific skill that you
are working on. Eventually you will start to see a pattern, where your
ratings correspond to scores, and you can use that to evaluate your
progress depending on how many arrows you shoot. Obviously the more
you shoot, the more likely your ratings and corresponding scores will
accurately reflect your progress in that area. So if you have a
positive increase in your scoring average, you know that you have made
progress, and using this method, you'll have a pretty good idea of why.

Another thing to keep in mind is to limit the amount of time you spend
on any one area. So for example, say I decide I want to focus on my
body alignment for a period of 4 to 5 sessions. I focus on that area
for the time I have given it and once I reach the 5th session I move
on to another area regardless of my progress. This keeps sessions
relatively fresh and productive, but also prevents them from being
overbearing, and keeps the archer focused on a larger, more important
goal.

After three or four different areas have been worked on in succession,
go back to the area you were working on three or more focus areas
prior, and devote one or two sessions to that area again. That way
you're making progress in a number of areas, plus you are forcing
yourself to take another look at a previous focus area--it keeps you
sharp.

With all of this understood, it's plausible that a weekend archer can
have more effective practice sessions than an archer who shoots
everyday, but who has no plan or approach, and who doesn't shoot many
arrows with purpose. However, in each case, both archers will reach a
point where further improvement and consistent progress is harder and
harder to come by. That's when upping the volume of arrows shot can
make an impact.

Obviously, if you're Oh Kyo-Moon, you don't need to shoot 600 arrows a
day to stay at a competitive level, but I can guarantee you that at a
point in his development he had to shoot that number of arrows to be
competitive and to improve, especially in a country with as big of a
talent pool as South Korea. In all, the effort you should put in is
greatly dependent on your intended goals within the sport, and there
is no reason why you cannot achieve those goals without a coach. A
good coach just helps you to realize your potential and can sometimes
assist you in attaining your goals, but ultimately the success you
reap as an archer, you reap.

Another suggestion is to visit the coach you mentioned and pay for a
session or two and get a feel for how you think he or she can assist you.

Also don't be afraid of visiting other reputable coaches while working
on an a specific focus area with your primary coach. As long as you're
up front and advise the new coach that you have been working on X, Y,
and Z, most likely that coach is only going to reinforce what your
full-time coach has been saying all along, and that's good. The other
coach may have strengths in that area, or may be better able to
communicate in that area than your full-time coach. A lot of coaches
like to instill a "hands-off" policy between other coaches, and I
think that's simply counterproductive. No archer belongs to me! As
long as you're not going to Joe Archer at the archery shop who goes
bow-hunting every now and then and who's best known for crafting a
cigarette holder for his quiver, then I think seeking out other
coaches can be very productive.

Another thing is that a good coach will know when he/she has taken you
as far as his talents will allow, and will refer you to another coach
who has expertise that can bridge the gap. Always be mindful of the
experience level of your coach and don't assume that Coach A is going
to take you to the world championships. Also, don't assume Coach A is
lousy for not being able to do so. Many coaches focus on different
skill levels (whether they want to admit to it or not), and that's
perfectly Okay. Imagine Phil Jackson or Pat Riley trying to coach a
group of 6 and under kids at basketball. They probably wouldn't feel
very comfortable at all, and I'm sure they wouldn't be as good as a
coach who's focused on that skill level for a number of years.

Also, take advantage of archery training camps held throughout the
year by local and national groups such as your local or state archery
association, and the NAA. These are great opportunities for you to
develop new focus areas, and to hone practice routines. Plus you can
make new and interesting contacts that can help you along they way.

I think what I have written is a good start and there may be better
solutions out there than what I can offer. In any case, my primary
points are to have a a plan, know your goals, practice with purpose,
and seek reinforcement from other reputable sources without distorting
or side-stepping your path.

Good Luck,

Oh, and you can always drop me a line and I can try to help you
through some things.

-Dan Perez

Dan,

I am going through some inconsistencies during my release. I have
been told by one person to focus on a spot on the target just before I
release the arrow. I have been told by another that i should focus on
my follow through just before my release. What is your advice.

Dan,

I am going through some inconsistencies during my release.  I have
been told by one person to focus on a spot on the target just before I
release the arrow.  I have been told by another that i should focus on
my follow through just before my release.  What is your advice.

Hi friends I would like your help to start, please mention
any guidelines, files, documents or good websites which
can help to get a good understanding of Archery. I would also
like to request you to upload close up pics of your archery sets.
What are the different types of bows and arrows which are commonly
used. I am also interested to know the theoritical aspects of bows,
is there any specific mathematical technique used to design the bows.
Thanks.

Thank you very much for your info.

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Hello

I just started archery few months ago i would to know is it necessary
to used pressure button on the basic wood bow? what is the purpose?
how its works? and how to tune or setting it? Tq.

Hello

I just started archery few months ago i would to know is it necessary
to used pressure button on the basic wood bow? what is the purpose?
how its works? and how to tune or setting it? Tq.

----- Original Message -----

From: bowcoach

To: AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 12:17 AM

Subject: [AskArcheryCoach] Re: re sight

Paul,

This is a belated response to your question and I hope it gets to you.
I will try my best to explain in this email what I mean by "thinking
follow through" instead of thinking about where you want the arrow to
land.

First rule to remember: Once you have released your arrow, it is gone!



--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <cool-surf@u...> wrote:
> Thank you for your answear
> the paragraph below is me, I'm looking to see if
> my arrow has hit the target as soon as it has
> left the bow.
> Follow through,  could you please explain a bit more
> sorry to be a bother
> Paul
>
> You see, to many archers are worried about their
> sight, and their sight settings, and while they are in
> the process of performing the shot they are thinking
> about the target, and where they want the arrow to
> land, or in some cases where they want the aperture to
> be. However, what you should concentrate on is on
> performing a good follow through --that's it. Think
> follow through.
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 25/02/2005

---

No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.0 - Release Date: 30/05/2005

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.322 / Virus Database: 267.3.3 - Release Date: 31/05/2005

Paul,

This is a belated response to your question and I hope it gets to you.
I will try my best to explain in this email what I mean by "thinking
follow through" instead of thinking about where you want the arrow to
land.

First rule to remember: Once you have released your arrow, it is gone!

What I mean by that is that you must be able to perform with positive
and even emotion, and especially no negative emotion. Easier said than
done I know! But just remember that once the arrow is gone there is
nothing in the world you can do that will change its intended path,
therefore we must remain composed and focused (as best we can) on the
overall goal, not on where the arrow has landed and why.

With that said, I'll attempt to discuss follow through. Follow through
in archery is difficult to describe or even point out to the untrained
eye, but is quite noticeable and distinguishable in other sports. let
me  give a couple of examples: In baseball when a batter hits the ball
and continues to swing even after the ball has been hit--that is
follow through (and we all know what it looks like), same in golf. Or
in soccer when a player attempts to kick a ball, he continues the
motion of kicking after the ball has left his foot, and there are many
other examples. In any case, what does follow through "look like" in
archery?

Well, good follow through in archery depends on a lot of
interdependent factors such as the shooters body alignment, motion
through the shot, and level of relaxation to name a few. All of which
take time to learn in their own right. However, a basic foundation for
good follow through can be learned early on, and even though it seems
strange for me to talk about it without going into great depth in the
areas of body alignment and motion through the shot (which are more or
less responsible for a good follow through) I will attempt it anyway
for the purpose brevity. (I can address those other areas if needed in
another post).

(This is my own description of the elements of good follow through and
are by no means the authoritative version).

Essentially, good follow through consists of 4 elements. 1. Motion (or
momentum), 2. Force (or Resistance), 3. Stability (a solid platform),
and 4. Relaxation (dynamic and static).

Forget for a moment that you have a specific target to hit and instead
assume only a general direction in which to point the bow. That is to
say, that good follow through can be executed with or without a
specific target for the archer to aim (or point) at. Keep that in
mind. (Try shooting with your eyes closed up close to understand what
I mean). With that said I am going to ignore for the purpose of this
explanation all those things that go on while aiming or pointing.

1. Motion. An archer must have good motion through the shot in order
to have good follow-through. Motion consists of the archer moving the
drawing elbow slowly backwards and at the same time towards the
archers back, (as if the archer was attempting to touch another archer
standing behind him--this is exaggerated of course). This will cause
the archers scapulas to squeeze together, but not painfully or overdone.

The motion starts from the beginning of the shot sequence as the
archer draws the bow and continues to pull. When the rear sight
location (AKA: the anchor point) is reached the motion of the drawing
arm does not stop, but rather only slows down. Like a rifle shooter
gently squeezes his trigger to set the shot in motion, the archer
slowly, but with command, pulls through the shot causing the
drawing-arm hand to follow along the neck and touch the top of the
right shoulder upon release. This can be difficult to achieve if an
archer is overdrawing (pulling too far) or is overbowed (draw weight
too heavy), and is best observed and understood with the use of a
clicker, because it is the sound and/or the feel of the clicker that
tells the brain to relax the fingers holding the string. Yet even as
the fingers have relaxed the pulling motion continues.

The question might be asked "How far does an archer have to pull past
the rear sight position?" and the answer should be: not that far,
maybe ½" at the most. 3/16" is better, less than that is problematic
for beginning archers in my opinion because their draw length is not
yet consistent and it would cause the clicker to go off too early in
many cases and can disrupt what rhythm an archer has. I am of the
belief that the clicker should be used early, but I think how much
room an archer has to pull to get through the clicker is partly a
function of the archer's ability, consistency, and of course the
current experience level at which the archer performs.

2. Force. What I am referring to as force has to due with the force
applied from the bow arm towards the target while starting the
pre-draw and extending long after the arrow has left the string. The
opposing force comes from muscles underneath the arm and is in the
form or force, not motion. That is to say, it is like reaching the arm
out towards the target, yet without actually moving the arm in that
direction. It is simply force. Of course much of this depends on body
alignment, but I will have to devote an entire post for that purpose
later some time. The basic idea that I am presenting here is that
there exists motion (tension) pulling away from the bow with the
drawing arm and (force) directed towards the bow and target from the
bow arm, and neither should be stronger than the other—it is a balance
of opposing forces, pulling and pushing, which can yield a powerful
shot. When performed properly the archer can feel and see that his bow
is shooting with more energy.

This idea of pulling and pushing can be misleading. I do not intend to
suggest that an archer should start out with his bow-arm bent and then
extend the arm out as he draws. Instead, what I am referring to is
that the bow-arm is fully extended from the start of what we
American's tend to call the "pre-draw position" if you will (after one
has knocked an arrow and set their grip properly), and applying force
against the bow all the way through to the end of the shot.

3. Stability. Stability comes from again having good body alignment to
start, and having a wide platform or triangle to provide support
during all of this pulling and pushing business. Think of an archer's
stance as a triangle, where the space between the archer's feet
represent the base and the rear sight position represents the peak. A
narrow stance with the feet close together makes the triangle's base
very small, yet the height of the triangle is still high. It is not
difficult to notice then that a narrow base is not very stable and
does not provide the necessary platform needed to execute a good
follow through because as the motion of the shot is executed the upper
portion of the triangle is prone to tipping over, and thus we can
expect that archers with short stances are more apt to losing their
balance and also tend to have other problems such as "target panic"
where an archer may release an arrow as soon as his aperture touches
his point of aim. In addition, this may make an archer feel weak, as
they are having to negotiate all the weight of the bow on a narrow
base, which leads to muscle fatigue, and eventually a collapsed shot.

A good platform to start out with is an even stance with the feet
slightly farther than shoulder width apart and weight distributed
evenly or slightly forward of the heels. Running or cross-country
shoes with slightly lifted heels assist in the proper weight distribution.

4. Relaxation. In the midst of all this tension, pulling, pushing and
all else, one must be able to also control particular areas during the
shot so that certain portions of the body are relaxed during the
entire execution of the shot process (static relaxation), and
selectively relax other areas in the midst of the shot process
(dynamic relaxation). Static relaxation can be very difficult to
learn. The main areas of course are the knees, neck, and bow hand,
which must remain relaxed throughout the shot. An archer should avoid
locking his knees, and should allow the head and neck to be relaxed
during the shot. The bow-hand must also be relaxed throughout the
shot. This requires the use of a bow sling to prevent to bow from
falling to the ground each time one releases an arrow.

One way to learn how to relax the bow-hand is to shoot without a sling
and have a coach or a friend stand behind the archer and catch the bow
as it's being shot. If performed properly the bow should come right
out of the archers hand and land in the awaiting coach's hand. (Don't
worry, the archer cannot see the hand of the coach or assistant as it
should be waiting below the grip towards the lower portion of the
riser about 2-3 inches away from the bow).  There are many archers out
there who wear a sling but don't use it properly—they still allow
their fingers to grip the bow just as it is being fired, or in some
cases one can observe archers whose fingers are outstretched away from
the bow, in order to be sure that the fingers will not influence the
flight of the arrow upon its release. But again this defeats the
purpose, as tense fingers present a tense grip. The idea is to be
completely relaxed, to the point that a coach could manipulate the
bow-hand fingers of an archer quite easily while at full draw and get
no resistance. (Of course one would want to foreworn the archer before
attempting this, and do it close to a target).

Dynamic relaxation comes when the mind tells the fingers to relax
while continuing to pull the string. Releasing smoothly can become a
problem for archers and I suggest the use of a stretch band and a tab
to simulate releasing the string smoothly. Just keep in mind that an
archer cannot open his fingers fast enough. If one watches slow motion
  video footage of an archer's release hand during the release it can
be observed that the string is gone long before the archer opens his
fingers. Therefore, I always teach archers to relax muscles rather
than to open their fingers. As it is, when an archer releases the
tension in the muscles holding the string, the string literally pushes
the fingers out of the way and then after the arrow is gone the archer
begins to open his fingers. That is to say, the motion of the release
is much faster than the conscious reaction of the archer.

To summarize then, a good follow through is one that exhibits good
motion through the shot ending up with the release arm following along
the neck and touching the right shoulder, while the constant extension
of force towards the target from the bow arm continues well after the
arrow has left the bow, and the only part of the bow-arm that moves is
the bow-hand as it is relaxed throughout the shot. The bow will come
forward from the hand and swing (depending upon the stabilizer
configuration), and the archers stance will remain stable and solid.

So, since this is one of the primary requirements to a good shot it is
best to focus on the requirement rather than the desired result. An
archer who is focusing on performing a good follow through rather than
just staring at his pin or aperture will have far better results in
the long run. Think Follow Through!

I will attach some images to help in my explanation of follow through.
Let me know if you have any problems accessing them, as I can also
send the images directly to you.

Best Wishes

Dan Perez
Group Moderator

--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, "Paul" <cool-surf@u...> wrote:
> Thank you for your answear
> the paragraph below is me, I'm looking to see if
> my arrow has hit the target as soon as it has
> left the bow.
> Follow through,  could you please explain a bit more
> sorry to be a bother
> Paul
>
> You see, to many archers are worried about their
> sight, and their sight settings, and while they are in
> the process of performing the shot they are thinking
> about the target, and where they want the arrow to
> land, or in some cases where they want the aperture to
> be. However, what you should concentrate on is on
> performing a good follow through --that's it. Think
> follow through.
> No virus found in this outgoing message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 25/02/2005

No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 266.5.0 - Release Date: 25/02/2005