Hello One and All.
My name is Jim and I've been an archer for 65 years.
These days I suffer Arthritis but I still enjoy a good round of
shooting.
I hope I can add to the knowledge base here.
Jim
Blessed be the Lord God my Strength
which teacheth my hands to war and my fingers to fight.
Psalm 144 V1

Adil,

Generally speaking, the weight of an archer can have a negative impact on his/her performance if the archer is overweight. Archers that are overweight will tend to have a higher resting heart rate, and indeed an even higher heart rate when under competitive pressure than a fit archer would have.

Overweight archers may also experience fatigue faster than a fit archer would.

Essentially, what this means is that overweight archers may not be able to hold the bow as steady as a fit archer.

However, this is not a rule, but more a general theory and there are always exceptions. For example, recently deceased archer, Jackson Fear of Australia set world records as a junior and in the senior division; he was an Australian national champion. Fear was on Australia's National Team at the 1996 Olympic Games, and was edged out in the Bronze metal team match by a talented Italian team.

Jackson Fear weighed more than 150 kilos.

However, in shooting sports being fit may not necessarily give an archer an advantage, but it will also not be a negative factor in performance. While, an overweight or unfit archer will in theory, always be susceptible to performance problems.

Hope this was of some help.

-Daniel Perez

Archery Coach

Hi all, new to the forum. I have been using poor equipment for three
years, I just assembled a Hoyt 25" riser with Hoyt 900cx long limbs at
48 lbs, my draw length is real close to 32".

Now then, I wanted to get one killer set of carbon arrows for FITA
competition.

I cannot seem to make sense of any charts that are out there.

Thoughts?

Hi Mr. Perez,

I downloaded one of the files in this forum - Special Training
Techniques Part II. At the end of the document, it mentioned the
Formaster and a Scapula Trainer.

My question is, "how does the Scapula Trainer differ from the Formaster?"

If possible, can you post a picture?

Thank you, and happy new year!

Emily

Ron,

I think at this stage in archery keeping it simple means not to try and
invent the wheel when there are so many resources available. I am not
suggesting that you not try to understand the reasoning behind adopting
one model of form & execution or another, rather I am suggesting that
you have to have a balance of inquiry, realistic goals, expectations,
and practical application.

Keeping it simple when it comes to equipment is also important. I have
written on this topic several times. Starting out you will not benefit
from a bow that has been micro-tuned. (Actually, it is next to
impossible to micro-tune a bow if you are not yet a proficient archer).

I often use tennis as an analogy. If you were just starting out in
tennis, you would not be worried about what string tension works best,
what grip cover is best and so on, as that is peripheral in significance
at this stage in the development process.

The same holds true for archery, you must be practical and aware of
where you are skill-wise. Therefore, to keep it simple by only shooting
a bow with a basic tune, and having organized sessions where you work on
specific facets of the shot is the most efficient and productive
approach to learning this sport.

Hope this was useful.

-Dan

--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, Ron & Eefje <ron-eefje@...>
wrote:
>
> Thanks for the explanations Dan!
>
> Your last line mentioned to keep things simple, well that might work
for
> many but wouldn't quite so for me. It has always been very important
for
> me in anything that I have done either professionally or private to
know
> exactly how things work, otherwise I just couldn't continue. Whenever
I
> get into something I do usually go much deeper and further than
others,
> that's just me!
> When I stand at the line to take aim, I just have to know that
whatever
> it is that I am using is reasonably in tune and adjusted, even
borrowed
> equipment, or else I would get worked up before even having lifted to
> bow and would produce lousy shots or even refuse to shoot in the first
> place. That also applies to my stance, the drawing, release or in
other
> words the whole technique of which I have to be reasonably confident
as
> well that they are the best that can be expected at my level, my age
and
> with my small handycaps.
>
> In most of the 12 or so shooting sessions that I have participated
there
> were not too many other archers and plenty of opportunity for the
tutors
> to keep an eye on me, so in that regard I have been lucky I guess and
> that brought it also very close to private lessons.
>
> On the videos:
> The one of the Korean guy that shot an arrow into another arrow shaft
> was very interesting to watch, you could wonder how often he succeeds
to
> repeat this. What he did can be kept in mind as an aim to accomplish
> some time in the future also.
>
> When I get some time I will browse through the previously posted
> messages of the group to get an idea of what other archers have
brought up.
>
> Ron van Mierlo
>
>
> bowcoach skrev:
> >
> > Ron,
> >
> > Thanks for your question.
> >
> > In response to your question I want to make two points.
> >
> > 1. Theoretically speaking, it does not matter much how or where one
> > anchors during the act of shooting the bow. That may seem like a
> > shocking statement, but the idea is that if you can reproduce a
> > consistent shot then it matters little how it is achieved. Ahh but
> > there is a catch; 6,000 years of archery evolution have taught us
some
> > of the more efficient ways of reproducing the act of shooting the
bow
> > with consistency. Just be glad we're not the ones writing the book,
we
> > only have to make updates from time to time!
> >
> > Where to anchor depends largely on the type of bow and the type of
> > archery you are participating in. For example, hunting recurve bows
> > tend to be short, with small sight windows that may be best shot
with
> > an anchor point that's closer to the corner of the mouth (in order
to
> > see targets at a close range). Longbow archers tend to follow a
> > similar positioning.  Some bow hunters also shoot with an extended
> > draw length in order to increase the weight behind an arrow in a
> > hunting situation.
> >
> > FITA style bows with their longer risers and sight windows are best
> > shot with an anchor position under the chin
> > <http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anchorarmpositionks8.jpg>.
> > Why under the chin? This position gives several points of contact
> > (under the chin, tip of nose), and results in a solid anchor (or
rear
> > sight position). It also assists in an effortless positioning of
> > string alignment.
> >
> > Having the drawing arm "locked," or to draw a bow so that you have
no
> > more ability to draw, will prevent you from using the clicker
> > properly.  Since you are unable to draw any further, you will have
> > problems shooting with a clicker.
> >
> > The idea is to have some space for movement, so you can squeeze the
> > scapulae together causing the clicker to go off (It's similar to
> > squeezing a trigger of a rifle until it fires, instead of just
pulling
> > on the trigger rapidly).
> >
> > In addition, having an anchor position as I have outlined assists
the
> > archer in aligning force vectors
> > <http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=forcevectorsbu7.jpg> ,
which
> > is necessary in order to reduce the amount of a load being supported
> > strictly by muscles. With the proper alignment
> > <http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=topviewarcherska4.jpg>,
force
> > vectors will be set up in such a way that allows the distribution of
> > the load to be more evenly supported by bones, thus reducing an
> > archer's tendency to fatigue.
> >
> > (You might do a search in this group archive as I have written on
the
> > topic of alignment before).
> >
> > If you take a look at some of the videos I have on my YouTube
> > <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=bowcoach> profile you'll see
what
> > I'm referring to.
> >
> > 2. Keep things simple. Don't try to get too complicated at this
point.
> > And I certainly wouldn't recommend trying to reinvent the wheel.
> > Instead, take a few private lessons, which will cut down on a lot of
> > time spent trying to figure things out for yourself.
> >
> > Hope this was of some help.
> >
> > -Dan
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Mierlo"
> > ron-eefje@ wrote:
> > >
> > > A little over 2 months I have had the opportunity to shoot loaned
> > > recurve bows (without sights) at clubs in my neighbourhood, but
> > > anchoring has been a major point for me. I had been under the
> > > impression (before I was told otherwise) that an archer would pull
> > > back the elbow as far as it will go (the upper arm lining up with
the
> > > upper body and bow arm) and in that way obtain an absolute and
steady
> > > point that would be easily repeatable and which would in my case
have
> > > resulted in 34 inches of drawlength. My fingers would in that case
> > > also finish up at or a little behind the corner of the jaw.
> > > At the archery clubs they kept on the contrary hammering on an
> > > anchoring point that would result in the bend fingers or thumb
> > > finishing up at or near my mouth, possibly at the corner of the
mouth
> > > and thereby also moving some 3 inches or so forward from the point
> > > that I previously kept.
> > > In itself I could understand the thinking behind this of getting
the
> > > string at the point whereby it could be seen and then brought
> > > horizontally in line with the arrow's tip and center of the
target.
> > > Also in that way the arrow shaft can be nicely followed over the
full
> > > length from the nock to the tip and lined up with the target.
> > > But this new anchoring point also has the disadvantage that it
moves
> > > the upper arm forward and the once so steady or locked position of
> > > the upper arm is now lost and suddenly some muscle strength is
> > > required to hold the upper arm from moving more forward while
aiming
> > > at the target.
> > >
> > > But was it such a dumb idea then of me to try and search for that
> > > locked or absolute arm position, that could be held for a very
long
> > > time? In that case I would likely have needed a release to add the
3
> > > inches difference to get the string in front of my face again and
> > > enable proper aiming.
> > >
> > > So is it correct to search an anchoring point with the fingers
near
> > > the corner of the mouth and to do this regardless of the possible
> > > disadvantage that the upper arm now gets to hold more of the bow's
> > > weight?
> > >
> > > Ron van Mierlo - Sweden
> > >
> >
> > --- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Mierlo"
> > ron-eefje@ wrote:
> > >
> > > A little over 2 months I have had the opportunity to shoot loaned
> > > recurve bows (without sights) at clubs in my neighbourhood, but
> > > anchoring has been a major point for me. I had been under the
> > > impression (before I was told otherwise) that an archer would pull
> > > back the elbow as far as it will go (the upper arm lining up with
the
> > > upper body and bow arm) and in that way obtain an absolute and
steady
> > > point that would be easily repeatable and which would in my case
have
> > > resulted in 34 inches of drawlength. My fingers would in that case
> > > also finish up at or a little behind the corner of the jaw.
> > > At the archery clubs they kept on the contrary hammering on an
> > > anchoring point that would result in the bend fingers or thumb
> > > finishing up at or near my mouth, possibly at the corner of the
mouth
> > > and thereby also moving some 3 inches or so forward from the point
> > > that I previously kept.
> > > In itself I could understand the thinking behind this of getting
the
> > > string at the point whereby it could be seen and then brought
> > > horizontally in line with the arrow's tip and center of the
target.
> > > Also in that way the arrow shaft can be nicely followed over the
full
> > > length from the nock to the tip and lined up with the target.
> > > But this new anchoring point also has the disadvantage that it
moves
> > > the upper arm forward and the once so steady or locked position of
> > > the upper arm is now lost and suddenly some muscle strength is
> > > required to hold the upper arm from moving more forward while
aiming
> > > at the target.
> > >
> > > But was it such a dumb idea then of me to try and search for that
> > > locked or absolute arm position, that could be held for a very
long
> > > time? In that case I would likely have needed a release to add the
3
> > > inches difference to get the string in front of my face again and
> > > enable proper aiming.
> > >
> > > So is it correct to search an anchoring point with the fingers
near
> > > the corner of the mouth and to do this regardless of the possible
> > > disadvantage that the upper arm now gets to hold more of the bow's
> > > weight?
> > >
> > > Ron van Mierlo - Sweden
> > >
> >
>

Thanks for the explanations Dan!

Your last line mentioned to keep things simple, well that might work for
many but wouldn't quite so for me. It has always been very important for
me in anything that I have done either professionally or private to know
exactly how things work, otherwise I just couldn't continue. Whenever I
get into something I do usually go much deeper and further than others,
that's just me!
When I stand at the line to take aim, I just have to know that whatever
it is that I am using is reasonably in tune and adjusted, even borrowed
equipment, or else I would get worked up before even having lifted to
bow and would produce lousy shots or even refuse to shoot in the first
place. That also applies to my stance, the drawing, release or in other
words the whole technique of which I have to be reasonably confident as
well that they are the best that can be expected at my level, my age and
with my small handycaps.

In most of the 12 or so shooting sessions that I have participated there
were not too many other archers and plenty of opportunity for the tutors
to keep an eye on me, so in that regard I have been lucky I guess and
that brought it also very close to private lessons.

On the videos:
The one of the Korean guy that shot an arrow into another arrow shaft
was very interesting to watch, you could wonder how often he succeeds to
repeat this. What he did can be kept in mind as an aim to accomplish
some time in the future also.

When I get some time I will browse through the previously posted
messages of the group to get an idea of what other archers have brought up.

Ron van Mierlo


bowcoach skrev:
>
> Ron,
>
> Thanks for your question.
>
> In response to your question I want to make two points.
>
> 1. Theoretically speaking, it does not matter much how or where one
> anchors during the act of shooting the bow. That may seem like a
> shocking statement, but the idea is that if you can reproduce a
> consistent shot then it matters little how it is achieved. Ahh but
> there is a catch; 6,000 years of archery evolution have taught us some
> of the more efficient ways of reproducing the act of shooting the bow
> with consistency. Just be glad we're not the ones writing the book, we
> only have to make updates from time to time!
>
> Where to anchor depends largely on the type of bow and the type of
> archery you are participating in. For example, hunting recurve bows
> tend to be short, with small sight windows that may be best shot with
> an anchor point that's closer to the corner of the mouth (in order to
> see targets at a close range). Longbow archers tend to follow a
> similar positioning.  Some bow hunters also shoot with an extended
> draw length in order to increase the weight behind an arrow in a
> hunting situation.
>
> FITA style bows with their longer risers and sight windows are best
> shot with an anchor position under the chin
> <http://img211.imageshack.us/my.php?image=anchorarmpositionks8.jpg>.
> Why under the chin? This position gives several points of contact
> (under the chin, tip of nose), and results in a solid anchor (or rear
> sight position). It also assists in an effortless positioning of
> string alignment.
>
> Having the drawing arm "locked," or to draw a bow so that you have no
> more ability to draw, will prevent you from using the clicker
> properly.  Since you are unable to draw any further, you will have
> problems shooting with a clicker.
>
> The idea is to have some space for movement, so you can squeeze the
> scapulae together causing the clicker to go off (It's similar to
> squeezing a trigger of a rifle until it fires, instead of just pulling
> on the trigger rapidly).
>
> In addition, having an anchor position as I have outlined assists the
> archer in aligning force vectors
> <http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=forcevectorsbu7.jpg> , which
> is necessary in order to reduce the amount of a load being supported
> strictly by muscles. With the proper alignment
> <http://img266.imageshack.us/my.php?image=topviewarcherska4.jpg>, force
> vectors will be set up in such a way that allows the distribution of
> the load to be more evenly supported by bones, thus reducing an
> archer's tendency to fatigue.
>
> (You might do a search in this group archive as I have written on the
> topic of alignment before).
>
> If you take a look at some of the videos I have on my YouTube
> <http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=bowcoach> profile you'll see what
> I'm referring to.
>
> 2. Keep things simple. Don't try to get too complicated at this point.
> And I certainly wouldn't recommend trying to reinvent the wheel.
> Instead, take a few private lessons, which will cut down on a lot of
> time spent trying to figure things out for yourself.
>
> Hope this was of some help.
>
> -Dan
>
>
>
>
>
> --- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Mierlo"
> <ron-eefje@...> wrote:
> >
> > A little over 2 months I have had the opportunity to shoot loaned
> > recurve bows (without sights) at clubs in my neighbourhood, but
> > anchoring has been a major point for me. I had been under the
> > impression (before I was told otherwise) that an archer would pull
> > back the elbow as far as it will go (the upper arm lining up with the
> > upper body and bow arm) and in that way obtain an absolute and steady
> > point that would be easily repeatable and which would in my case have
> > resulted in 34 inches of drawlength. My fingers would in that case
> > also finish up at or a little behind the corner of the jaw.
> > At the archery clubs they kept on the contrary hammering on an
> > anchoring point that would result in the bend fingers or thumb
> > finishing up at or near my mouth, possibly at the corner of the mouth
> > and thereby also moving some 3 inches or so forward from the point
> > that I previously kept.
> > In itself I could understand the thinking behind this of getting the
> > string at the point whereby it could be seen and then brought
> > horizontally in line with the arrow's tip and center of the target.
> > Also in that way the arrow shaft can be nicely followed over the full
> > length from the nock to the tip and lined up with the target.
> > But this new anchoring point also has the disadvantage that it moves
> > the upper arm forward and the once so steady or locked position of
> > the upper arm is now lost and suddenly some muscle strength is
> > required to hold the upper arm from moving more forward while aiming
> > at the target.
> >
> > But was it such a dumb idea then of me to try and search for that
> > locked or absolute arm position, that could be held for a very long
> > time? In that case I would likely have needed a release to add the 3
> > inches difference to get the string in front of my face again and
> > enable proper aiming.
> >
> > So is it correct to search an anchoring point with the fingers near
> > the corner of the mouth and to do this regardless of the possible
> > disadvantage that the upper arm now gets to hold more of the bow's
> > weight?
> >
> > Ron van Mierlo - Sweden
> >
>
> --- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, "Ron van Mierlo"
> <ron-eefje@...> wrote:
> >
> > A little over 2 months I have had the opportunity to shoot loaned
> > recurve bows (without sights) at clubs in my neighbourhood, but
> > anchoring has been a major point for me. I had been under the
> > impression (before I was told otherwise) that an archer would pull
> > back the elbow as far as it will go (the upper arm lining up with the
> > upper body and bow arm) and in that way obtain an absolute and steady
> > point that would be easily repeatable and which would in my case have
> > resulted in 34 inches of drawlength. My fingers would in that case
> > also finish up at or a little behind the corner of the jaw.
> > At the archery clubs they kept on the contrary hammering on an
> > anchoring point that would result in the bend fingers or thumb
> > finishing up at or near my mouth, possibly at the corner of the mouth
> > and thereby also moving some 3 inches or so forward from the point
> > that I previously kept.
> > In itself I could understand the thinking behind this of getting the
> > string at the point whereby it could be seen and then brought
> > horizontally in line with the arrow's tip and center of the target.
> > Also in that way the arrow shaft can be nicely followed over the full
> > length from the nock to the tip and lined up with the target.
> > But this new anchoring point also has the disadvantage that it moves
> > the upper arm forward and the once so steady or locked position of
> > the upper arm is now lost and suddenly some muscle strength is
> > required to hold the upper arm from moving more forward while aiming
> > at the target.
> >
> > But was it such a dumb idea then of me to try and search for that
> > locked or absolute arm position, that could be held for a very long
> > time? In that case I would likely have needed a release to add the 3
> > inches difference to get the string in front of my face again and
> > enable proper aiming.
> >
> > So is it correct to search an anchoring point with the fingers near
> > the corner of the mouth and to do this regardless of the possible
> > disadvantage that the upper arm now gets to hold more of the bow's
> > weight?
> >
> > Ron van Mierlo - Sweden
> >
>

Ron,

Thanks for your question.

In response to your question I want to make two points.

1. Theoretically speaking, it does not matter much how or where one anchors during the act of shooting the bow. That may seem like a shocking statement, but the idea is that if you can reproduce a consistent shot then it matters little how it is achieved. Ahh but there is a catch; 6,000 years of archery evolution have taught us some of the more efficient ways of reproducing the act of shooting the bow with consistency. Just be glad we're not the ones writing the book, we only have to make updates from time to time!

Where to anchor depends largely on the type of bow and the type of archery you are participating in. For example, hunting recurve bows tend to be short, with small sight windows that may be best shot with an anchor point that's closer to the corner of the mouth (in order to see targets at a close range). Longbow archers tend to follow a similar positioning.  Some bow hunters also shoot with an extended draw length in order to increase the weight behind an arrow in a hunting situation.

FITA style bows with their longer risers and sight windows are best shot with an anchor position under the chin. Why under the chin? This position gives several points of contact (under the chin, tip of nose), and results in a solid anchor (or rear sight position). It also assists in an effortless positioning of string alignment.

Having the drawing arm "locked," or to draw a bow so that you have no more ability to draw, will prevent you from using the clicker properly.  Since you are unable to draw any further, you will have problems shooting with a clicker.

The idea is to have some space for movement, so you can squeeze the scapulae together causing the clicker to go off (It's similar to squeezing a trigger of a rifle until it fires, instead of just pulling on the trigger rapidly).

In addition, having an anchor position as I have outlined assists the archer in aligning force vectors , which is necessary in order to reduce the amount of a load being supported strictly by muscles. With the proper alignment, force vectors will be set up in such a way that allows the distribution of the load to be more evenly supported by bones, thus reducing an archer's tendency to fatigue.

(You might do a search in this group archive as I have written on the topic of alignment before).

If you take a look at some of the videos I have on my YouTube  profile you'll see what I'm referring to.

2. Keep things simple. Don't try to get too complicated at this point. And I certainly wouldn't recommend trying to reinvent the wheel.  Instead, take a few private lessons, which will cut down on a lot of time spent trying to figure things out for yourself.

Hope this was of some help.

-Dan

A little over 2 months I have had the opportunity to shoot loaned
recurve bows (without sights) at clubs in my neighbourhood, but
anchoring has been a major point for me. I had been under the
impression (before I was told otherwise) that an archer would pull
back the elbow as far as it will go (the upper arm lining up with the
upper body and bow arm) and in that way obtain an absolute and steady
point that would be easily repeatable and which would in my case have
resulted in 34 inches of drawlength. My fingers would in that case
also finish up at or a little behind the corner of the jaw.
At the archery clubs they kept on the contrary hammering on an
anchoring point that would result in the bend fingers or thumb
finishing up at or near my mouth, possibly at the corner of the mouth
and thereby also moving some 3 inches or so forward from the point
that I previously kept.
In itself I could understand the thinking behind this of getting the
string at the point whereby it could be seen and then brought
horizontally in line with the arrow's tip and center of the target.
Also in that way the arrow shaft can be nicely followed over the full
length from the nock to the tip and lined up with the target.
But this new anchoring point also has the disadvantage that it moves
the upper arm forward and the once so steady or locked position of
the upper arm is now lost and suddenly some muscle strength is
required to hold the upper arm from moving more forward while aiming
at the target.

But was it such a dumb idea then of me to try and search for that
locked or absolute arm position, that could be held for a very long
time? In that case I would likely have needed a release to add the 3
inches difference to get the string in front of my face again and
enable proper aiming.

So is it correct to search an anchoring point with the fingers near
the corner of the mouth and to do this regardless of the possible
disadvantage that the upper arm now gets to hold more of the bow's
weight?

Ron van Mierlo - Sweden

Marty,

The picture of a local archer shot from point of view of the arrow
point looking towards the archer was not meant to be instructional; it
was just a difficult photograph that I made.

To answer your question about string alignment and why one would not
want to position the string directly in front of the aperture, the
answer is simple, however, I can understand how one would think that
it would be the likely position (hence peep sights).

Keep in mind the bow is not a rifle, that is to say that the arrow is
not aligned perfectly down the centerline of the bow, and the flight
of the arrow is not similar to that of a bullet. Arrows bend and flex
their way to the target along a nodal plane.

If you try to align the string (rear sight), with the aperture, the
string blur will obstruct your view of the aim point and in some cases
may interfere with your view of the aperture all together.

The point behind string alignment is to assist in the control of
horizontal grouping. The importance of consistent string alignment is
more evident the farther an archer is from his or her target.
Developing consistent string alignment is more important in my view
than what one chooses to align to, (outside of the aperture, the
inside of the sight window, etc).

Hope this helps.

-Dan Perez
Archery Coach


--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, "Marty" <mfdewan@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Archery Coach,
>
> Long time - no postings.
>
> I am a recreational recurve shooter and I do not understand the info
> I recently re-read in R MCKinney's book on where the string blur
> might be best located.
>
> Several positions are shown. My question is - why would you not line
> the string up on the sight pin/circle?
>
> The picture on this website of local shooters shows the sight and
> string lined up with the shooter's eye. In McKinney's book, he also
> has a picture with the string, sight and eye lined up.
>
> But the book shows string blur lines:
> just to the right of the sight pin
> along the inside of the bow edge
> along the middle of the bow and
> along the outside edge of the bow.
>
> I am thinking maybe in aiming position zero, you can line up on the
> sight pin but as your fine tune your aim and move the sight pin, you
> want to keep the blur in a constant place?
>
> But where shoud a good starting position for the string blur be?
>
> Thank you,
>
> Marty DeWan
> Torrance, CA (shooting @ Long Beach El Dorado Park)
>

Happy Thanksgiving to all - long time, no posts.

I have been reading about the NAA High Performance Program to train
the top USA Recurve Archers for Olympic competition. My question is
how to identify those men and women with high potential recurve
ability and dedication?

Three questions come to my mind that I want to ask you all:

First, how old were were you when you really got interested in
Recurve Archery?

Second, did you play any sports and recreations - tennis, golf,
darts, bowling, etc. - prior to archery that you felt developed your
interest and skill in archery?

Third, did you come to Recurve Archery from Compound Bow Archery?
Were you ever a compound bow/release aided shooter?

I think if there were more archery ranges available to high school
aged boys and girls - with prior athletic experience - we would see
more young serious archery candidates develop.

Hope to get some answers from you.

Best Wishes,

Marty DeWan
Torrance, CA

PS Feel free to email me directly - mfdewan@...

Hey Folks,

Below is a message which was posted to my Youtube profile, so I
thought I would post the question and my answer here. I hope everyone
is doing well.

See below...

Brest Regards,

-DP
----------------------------------------------------------------------

Dear Mr. Perez,

I joined your yahoo forum some time ago.
I enjoyed reading the earlier threads.
I found it to be informative.
However, I noticed inactivity by the moderator lately,so I decided to
send you a message here instead.
I downloaded the back tension exercise.
Can you please explain what you mean by "continuous draw drill - focus
on clicker, headless draw drill and double draw drill?"

I sent an IM to your Yahoo.
I hope that's all right with you too.

Yours truly,
Emily Mae Yap

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Emily,

I hope this message finds you in good spirits. I don't often check my
Youtube account for emails so I apologize for my delayed response.

The inactivity on the Yahoo group can be explained in two reasons, 1)I
have recently relocated to Southern California and have been very busy
with all that comes with relocation and settling in with a new job. 2)
My intention with the group when I created it was to be a resource for
people who need tips now and then, but not something that would
replace a coach. It is not uncommon for there to be long periods of
time without activity, and I've tried to spark a little bit of an
interest by attaching several files and things that I have used at one
time or another.

Anyhow, enough of that!

To answer your questions about the different drills outlined in one of
my practice spreadsheets (which is available as an attachment in the
group files section), I would simply refer you to a couple of
documents that are also available on the group website. One is a short
little paper, titled, "Clicker Set Up & Lesson" which is located under
the Training Documents folder in our Yahoo group files location. In
that document I talk about focusing on the clicker during the early
stages of learning the clicker. So where my practice session suggests
a continuous draw drill, with a focus on the clicker, that means the
archer should focus on the clicker during the continuous draw drill
(as described in the above mentioned paper).

As for the other drills, check out the document titled, "training
techniques training aids," also located under the Training Documents
folder. This document was written by Don Rabska, a respected authority
on archery and an internationally recognized technical expert. In that
document, Rabska describes the headless draw and double draw
techniques. These have been adopted and modified by several coaches,
so chances are you may have done one of these drills before.

On thing I thought I would mention since many of the documents that I
have posted discuss archery through the view of the pre-Kisik Lee era,
where the standard consensus used to be one of a push-pull nature. Now
that way of thinking is being transformed under the National Coach
Kisik Lee, and although there are many people who feel that his
stubborn approach to coaching archery is out of place in the U.S., I
am not one of them.  I think Coach Lee has a proven record and he will
transform archery in the U.S. I'm sure the women's program will
improve most impressively, and it's great for the sport. From a few
videos I have seen of our lady archers training at the USOTC, I can
say they have greatly benefited from Coach Lee.

With all that said, I have not had the opportunity to study Coach
Lee's system. I hope to be able to familiarize myself with his system
sometime before this time next year.  I don't think this will be hard
for me to do since I pretty much have studied Korean techniques on my
own for over 10 years.

I just wanted to let readers know that the materials are dated, in so
far as the philosophy has changed. However, I think there is a
philosophical rigidity existent in American coaching when it comes to
archery that is just not present in most other sports. If you take the
top 20 basketball players in the world or the top 20 baseball players
in the world, you will note how different each player is when compared
to one another. Lebron James's jump shot doesn't come close to Ray
Allen's, yet he is successful. The swings of different baseball
players are as varied as the players themselves. Yet in archery, we
expect to fall within the model archer, and archers are always quick
to ask, "What am I doing wrong?" rather than "how can I improve?"
Coaches are often too quick to force archers into some imaginary mold.
Yet, at the highest levels, if one watches and studies archery videos,
they would observe that there are as many different styles of archery
as there are elite archers, which is consistent with most other sports
  (with the exception of the Korean women, who are actually not human
beings; they are machines! Just kidding)…

The point is, that I think there are many ways (from a form and
technique point of view) to reach an elite level in archery, which for
the most part is influenced by a balance of the coaches' "ideal
technique," and the adaptation and incorporation of this model by the
archer into the physical and mental attributes that are more are less
permanent features of each individual, hence Reggie Miller shot left
handed, and had a widely touted unorthodox shot, where his elbows
would come up high and lead into the shot, but he was one of the best
three point shooters of all time in the NBA. The challenge in archery
(as it is with most sports) is to develop a balance between the model
technique and acknowledging the physiological, mental, and skill level
constraints presented by each archer, and recognizing which
constraints are permanent, which can be worked around, and which cannot.

Enough said for now. Let me know if my information regarding the
archery drills was sufficient, or if you will need further explanation.

Best Regards,

-Coach

Hi Archery Coach,

Long time - no postings.

I am a recreational recurve shooter and I do not understand the info
I recently re-read in R MCKinney's book on where the string blur
might be best located.

Several positions are shown. My question is - why would you not line
the string up on the sight pin/circle?

The picture on this website of local shooters shows the sight and
string lined up with the shooter's eye. In McKinney's book, he also
has a picture with the string, sight and eye lined up.

But the book shows string blur lines:
just to the right of the sight pin
along the inside of the bow edge
along the middle of the bow and
along the outside edge of the bow.

I am thinking maybe in aiming position zero, you can line up on the
sight pin but as your fine tune your aim and move the sight pin, you
want to keep the blur in a constant place?

But where shoud a good starting position for the string blur be?

Thank you,

Marty DeWan
Torrance, CA (shooting @ Long Beach El Dorado Park)

Dave,

I'm not sure what videos you are referring to, maybe you could send me
the links. If you are referring to 2004 Olympic footage, then I would
say you are correct, not many of the archers are utilizing the BEST
method, but that's because Coach Kisik Lee, hadn't arrived here yet.

I would never suggest that I know more than some other coach,
especially Coach Kisik Lee. I think his experience and record speaks
for itself. I'm not so sure I was so strong in my choice of words when
describing Rick Mckinney's book. I might have said his book is enough
or something like that. In any case, I have not read Mr. Lee's book at
the moment, but I'm sure it is very good as well.

It would be foolish for me to suggest that Mr. Lee's book is not worth
picking up, and it would be equally as foolish for me to disregard the
BEST method. I missed the opportunity to participate in Coach Lee's
coaching seminar held in March. But I will participate in FITA's
International Coaching Seminar to be held in South Korea later this
year. Many of the things we have learned about archery in this country
are being turned upside down by Coach Lee, but I think it is for the
best, and I look forward to learning as much as I can from his system.

With all that said, there is no one way to shoot the bow. However, to
answer your question, I really think it depends on your long term
goals with the sport. I mean if you are shooting for recreation, then
it may not be such a big deal how much of the BEST method you adopt
versus some other technique. However, if you plan on being
internationally competitive, then I would suggest you focus on the
BEST method, as that is being adopted here in the U.S., and it is not
so far stretched from other methods that you cannot accommodate
yourself to it.

I think the main differences as I understand them lie in the angular
vs. linear approach, as well as the load/transfer stages of the BEST
vs. continuous movement approach as taught here and elsewhere in the
past. I think there are many who do not buy into Coach Lee's system,
as it may be viewed as a bit radical, or even strict. However, all
sports change over the years, new innovations become standards, and
Coach Lee is sort of a pioneer in our sport, he is making an impact
that will be adopted and we are right in the middle of this transition.

I think adopting the BEST method will help you to streamline and
simplify your technique in the long run. Keep in mind, many of the
important aspects of archery are still valid in McKinney's book. I
think Coach Lee's approach may take things a bit further.

I hope this was of some help.

-Daniel



--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, "HikinOut" <hikinout@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I was looking at some videos of the US archery team and some Korean
> archers on youtube.  I have also looked into the steps of the BEST
> method that coach Kisik Lee is teaching.  The interesting thing about
> the US teams video is that not every archer is using the BEST method
> verbatum.  I saw some variations.  I know you have suggested to others
> that the Rick Mckinney book "the simple art of winning" is the only
> book you need.  In my technique, I am using some things that work well
> for me from coach Lee's method and I am using other things from other
> books that i have read.  I do not have a coach but feel i am
> progressing.  I would like your opinion as to my approach.  Do you
> think it is a mistake not to follow one method or another to the T?
>
> Thanks,
> Dave
>

Hi Daniel,

I was looking at some videos of the US archery team and some Korean
archers on youtube.  I have also looked into the steps of the BEST
method that coach Kisik Lee is teaching.  The interesting thing about
the US teams video is that not every archer is using the BEST method
verbatum.  I saw some variations.  I know you have suggested to others
that the Rick Mckinney book "the simple art of winning" is the only
book you need.  In my technique, I am using some things that work well
for me from coach Lee's method and I am using other things from other
books that i have read.  I do not have a coach but feel i am
progressing.  I would like your opinion as to my approach.  Do you
think it is a mistake not to follow one method or another to the T?

Thanks,
Dave

You can call me Dan or Daniel… It's a little friendlier here, so I
like to go by at least my first name!

As to the arrow problem, I'm sure if you explain your difficulty with
the other shop to this new one, they won't take advantage of you. You
never know, you might end up buying something else from them while
you're there so it's not a total loss. I would think that if they're a
decent shop they won't nickel and dime you for cutting arrows, I mean
you can cut them in less than a couple of minutes total.

As for your string question, well I don't know what kind of bow you
have, so again I am guessing… But if you have an older bow, say one
made before the introduction of fast flight and other modern strings
then yes, it is possible that using a modern string could cause damage
to the limbs. You want to look at the limb tips and make sure that
they are reinforced, if not I would stick with something a little
friendlier like Dacron or Flastflight.

Strand thicknesses vary depending on the material. If you are planning
on getting a custom made string, you may only need to give the string
maker the nock size and string length (for modern materials). However,
if you are planning on making the string yourself, I would suggest you
consult the material manufacture for specifications.

I hope this was of some help to you.

-Daniel

FYI, in the future when asking questions like this just let the reader
know what kind of equipment you have so that the best answers and
advice can be given.



--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, "dcroe05" <dcroe05@...> wrote:
>
> bowcoach,
>
> * I'm assuming you're using a recurve bow, since you didn't provide that
> info.
>
> Thank you for your response.  Yes I am using a takedown recurve bow.
> Sorry I didn't include that.
>
>   It's best to use an arrow shaft saw. Which you can find at most
archery
> shops and online stores. Don't try using your dremel.   I'm sure it
> wouldn't cost much to have another shop cut the arrows to size for you
> since you've run into problems with your current shop.
>
> I guess I'll try the pro shop an hour away.  I'm sure the prices are
> reasonable for those who use them often, but I likely won't be using
> them even once each year.
>
> Strands are really only a factor for nock fit, as the materials made
> today are so strong you could get by with two or three strands, but
> obviously, you'll need to make sure to have string that will fit your
> nocks.
>
> So then aside from Nock fit, am I correct to interpret your comment to
> mean that material is not necessarily a critical factor?  The shop I was
> using (and remember I do not trust them) informed me that by changing
> from Fast Flite to Dyneema or Dynaflight that I could damage my bow.
> I'm starting to think they didn't know enough to advise me and suggested
> I stay with the same exact string for fear of being wrong.
>
> As for Nock fit if I used 16 strands of FastFlite is that about the same
> thickness as 16 strands of another material?  This question might be
> immaterial as I've never used these nocks before.
>
>
> Again, thanks for the info.
>

To answer your questions:

* I'm assuming you're using a recurve bow, since you didn't provide that info.

1. Cut them. I've never cut arrows myself before. I have a
high-speed dremel tool if that's acceptable.

It's best to use an arrow shaft saw. Which you can find at most archery shops and online stores. Don't try using your dremel. I'm sure it wouldn't cost much to have another shop cut the arrows to size for you since you've run into problems with your current shop.

2. Install inserts. I can go on Easton to figure out what points I
need, but that last time I installed points was with aluminum arrows.
I used a propane torch from the hardware store and some special
archery glue I can't remember. Can I do this with Carbon Composite?

If you're using hotmelt to install points, do not use the torch to heat the shaft! Heat the uni-bushing or insert and apply glue, then insert into shaft. The Easton guide should also prove to be helpful in that area.

4. Bow-String. When I last shot my bow I used an AMO 68" FastFlite 16
strand bow-string. My the local pro-shop had trouble finding these,
but hesitated when I asked him to recommend a modern-day equivalent
that I could actually purchase. What kind of string would be equivalent?

Strands are really only a factor for nock fit, as the materials made today are so strong you could get by with two or three strands, but obviously, you'll need to make sure to have string that will fit your nocks.

If you have order a custom made string, remember that the string length should be roughly 3" shorter than the length of your bow.

There are many string choices, but for recurves I prefer Angel Majesty  string.

If you want something with more color options, try Brownell's  D75, Xcel, or TSP Plus, or BCY's  Dyneema 02, DynaFlight 97, or 8125 material.

There are many internet shops which can assist you in getting a custom string. However, it sounds as though you might be fine with a pre-made string. Angel makes such strings for reasonable prices and can be found on Lancaster Archery Supply's website .

In my opinion, Angel makes the best serving on the market, but you might also check with Brownell in that regard.

Hope this helps you out. 

About 8 weeks ago I went to my only local pro shop and ordered a dozen
Redline 600s.  After many delays, a lack of information, and frankly
catching the shop in some questionable practices, I took the portion
of the order that was in and canceled the rest of the order.

The offshoot of this is that I have a dozen, uncut, shafts, a dozen
tunable nocks with nock tool, and 50 spin vanes.

Can anyone give me any advice on how to:

1. Cut them.  I've never cut arrows myself before.  I have a
high-speed dremel tool if that's acceptable.

2. Install inserts.  I can go on Easton to figure out what points I
need, but that last time I installed points was with aluminum arrows.
  I used a propane torch from the hardware store and some special
archery glue I can't remember.  Can I do this with Carbon Composite?

3. Vanes.  This one I think I'm actually covered on.  I have a Beiter
Tri-Liner and I've put on Spin Vanes before.

4. Bow-String.  When I last shot my bow I used an AMO 68" FastFlite 16
strand bow-string.  My the local pro-shop had trouble finding these,
but hesitated when I asked him to recommend a modern-day equivalent
that I could actually purchase.  What kind of string would be equivalent?

Any help would be appreciated.

Hello,

This email message is a notification to let you know that
a file has been uploaded to the Files area of the AskArcheryCoach
group.

   File        : /Training Documents/How to determine the proper brace height.pdf
   Uploaded by : bowcoach <bowcoach@...>
   Description : Fine Tuning Brace Height

You can access this file at the URL:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AskArcheryCoach/files/Training%20Documents/How%20t\
o%20determine%20the%20proper%20brace%20height.pdf

To learn more about file sharing for your group, please visit:
http://help.yahoo.com/help/us/groups/files

Regards,

bowcoach <bowcoach@...>

Sorry about that last message about Windows Vista, I didn't read it,
but I won't make the same mistake again. It has been deleted from our
archive.

Just didn't want people thinking that we're going to let that stuff
come through on a regular basis.

Best wishes to you all.

Thanks,

Daniel Perez
Moderator

Adil,

Try these steps...

1. Make sure you have proper arrow to bow match.
2. Make sure your brace height is within the acceptable range for your
bow's length.
3. Make sure you button tension is at medium for starting out.
4. Make sure that the center of the arrow is touching the center of
the button. If the arrow sits too high or too low, it will cause the
plunger head to wear unevenly. Which effects the horizontal
positioning of the arrow. This adjustment is normally made by
adjusting the arrow rest's vertical position. Some bows allow for
vertical plunger movement, but I would rather you set it at center,
then adjust the arrow rest.
5. Make sure that the horizontal position of the button is correct,
and that your arrow rest arm does not extent past the outside diameter
of your arrows.
6. Make sure your nock height is within the acceptable initial range.
7. Test for best nock/vane position. Shooting a group of three arrows,
make a slight adjustment in vane positioning (the same for all three
arrows) and powder test the vanes for clearance problems.

Here's a lengthy way to determine your nock/vane positioning. If you
are pretty consistent, then try this from 30m:

A. Measure and mark the nock/vane position, then write the nock/vane
position on a paper plate, then shoot one group of three powder tested
arrows, all with the same nock/vane position.
B. Note on the paper plate if you observed any clearance problems with
the powder test. Then set aside the paper plate.
C. Start a new paper plate, rotate the nock/vane position about 3mm on
all three arrows. Mark the paper plate with the new nock/vane position.
D. Shoot again, one end of the three arrows. Write the powder test
results on the paper plate.
E. Follow the above steps, rotating the nock/vane position 3mm at a
time until you have covered essentially 1/3 of the arrow's circumference.
F. Once complete line up all of the paper plates. Remove all the
plates that you have marked with negative results for the powder test.
G. Evaluate the remaining plates. Find the one with the best group,
that's the nock/vane position that I would set all of my arrows to.

You can get by with just a few powder tests, but the above method will
help to reduce even the slightest contact, by defining the best
nock/vane position.

I think if you follow all of the above you will correct any clearance
problems you might be experiencing. If you are still having problems,
then I would say it is more an issue of the "user," than it is the
equipment.

Let me know how that helps you… Also, refer to the Easton tuning guide
which is available online and in our files section of our group website.

Hope that helps,

-Daniel Perez


--- In AskArcheryCoach@yahoogroups.com, Adil Jdidi <adiljdidi@...> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> i get the vane cut always from the same place when i shoot, is it
due to berger button or a problem with clicker?
> and how could i aoid it
>
> Thanks
>
> Adil
>
> FAR club - Morocco.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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>

First off, I'm no expert on physics, but I'll give it a go.

Yes, there is a relation. The lighter the arrow the faster will be its initial velocity (However, the downrange velocity will vary depending on the arrow's profile).

Beyond that there are other considerations which physics can't account for... the human element! That is the faster your arrows fly, the less room there will be for error.  That is, the bow becomes less forgiving of imperfections in your execution of the shot.

There's an old saying in the archery world... "It's better to have a slow 10, than a fast 7." So, unless you are certain that your execution is rock solid, I would recommend that you 1). First check to see that your arrows are properly matched to your draw weight and that they are not so out of tune that you can't bring them within an acceptable range. 2) Try a more forgiving set-up, which might include lower poundage, or heavier arrows, or a combination of both, and a slightly higher brace height. 3) Anytime you make significant changes to the setup of your equipment, such as changing arrows or changing limbs, it will require that you also re-tune your bow.

Refer to the Easton tuning guide for more details on tuning.

Best of luck,

-Daniel Perez
Archery Coach