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To: AUS-Croquet@yahoogroups.com
From: tbassett@...
Date: Fri, 2 May 2008 08:37:43 +1000
Subject: RE: [AUS-Croquet] Advanced Play

Doran, I think you are confusing the issue here. 

 

You have asked whether they play advanced or level play, I think what you are really asking is whether or not Div 4 play lift and contact (ie. advanced), which is also level play (ie. not handicap).

 

You seem to be referring to level play as no lift and contact, which is slightly confusing.

 

I also find it very interesting that you claim to have had no adverse consequences to changing from half court to full court.  Have you ever considered the effect of having to restrict tournament entries to suit the available lawns, when I was a beginner it was awesome to play in an event that had half courts that were full of players.  If enough lawns were available you could even hold multiple divisions at the same venue at the same time, which was great for people that wanted to travel together.  It also gave the lower divisions a chance to watch better croquet and learn from it.  I for one think that changing from half courts to full courts was a totally poor decision.  Half courts allows beginners to have a better chance of getting from point a to point b with at least some accuracy, it gave them a chance to actually put together an all round break and it gave them a chance to actually peg out.  I believe this has been lost by forcing them to play on full size courts.  If you now introduce advanced play for these division 4 beginners you reduce their chances even further.  We should be encouraging our beginners to keep control, make breaks and win games, not have them worry about setting leaves after giving lift, peeling, etc, these will all come as they develop as a player.  You state that it has had no adverse consequences but I have not seen too many players progress from beginners to top level players in the past few years, whereas back in my time players were going from beginners to state level players in a few years.  The Vic events for the top 10 players have been filled with primarily the same players for years (with the exception of this year with a couple of new players coming forth), whereas 10 years ago the top 10 were changing from year to year.  Could it be possible that by removing the half court we have been slowing the growth of our up and coming players as it is taking them years longer to develop the skills required to play on the full size courts and in some cases players have lost enthusiasm and stopped trying?

 

I think we should go back to half size courts and help develop our players from the ground up.

I am definitely against introducing advanced play for Division 4 players.

In fact I would support a move to return things to the old days, ie. half size courts for Div 4 & 3, then full size courts for Div 2 & 1 with advanced play (lift and contact).  My theory is that in Div 4 you are just trying to learn the basics, as you develop and improve into a Div 3 player you learn how to make all round breaks (on the small lawn), then once you have mastered that you are ready to attack the big lawn and learn lift and contact, once you get comfortable with that you progress to Div 1 where you are then ready to attempt peels and the like.  If you wanted to you could introduce lift and contact in Div 3 but still on the small court so when you progress to the large court you already understand lift and contact and are just adjusting to the larger court.  Alternatively, as we no longer have divisions as such, we could introduce a 5th division in the middle where you are still on small courts but advanced play is introduced, that way the development of a top level croquet player can be harnessed from go to woe.

 

Cheers, Trev.

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From: AUS-Croquet@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AUS-Croquet@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Doron Gunzburg
Sent: Thursday, 1 May 2008 5:34 PM
To: AUS-Croquet@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [AUS-Croquet] Advanced Play

Ernie

The question is whether , for fourth Div , your tournaments are advanced or level play. In Vic the tradition has been to only have level...which in my view is not helpful from a learning perspective. having been instrumental in moving Vic from half to full courts for this group for tournament play (with no adverse consequences) I'm now looking at this next step.

Thanks John and Kay.

What about NSW and Tas?

On 01/05/2008, at 4:39 PM, Ernie & Margaret wrote:

Hi Doron

In Qld I dont know of any real h'cap tournaments being played.

Advanced adds another dimension to the game

and if you have to give a heap of bisques it gives

you an extra chance to catch up.

Ernie Melville

Qld 

----- Original Message -----

From: Doron Gunzburg

To: AUS-Croquet@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2008 1:46 PM

Subject: [AUS-Croquet] Advanced Play

Hi all

I'd like to get an idea of the situation in each State as to whether or

not all tournaments are Advanced Play, or whether 4th Div players are

excluded from this (as in Vic at present).

Would appreciate your help

Regards

Doron

I

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