Hey Michael,

I believe it was Jack Madden who was invovled in one of the few
protested games that the NBA actually accepted as a valid protest and
it came about bcs of a technicals happy refs. I might have my facts a
little screwed up but I think the Nets were involved and if memory
serves me, Madden (or Strom) called a third tech on a player/coach
after he kicked him outta of the game. The NBA actually made them
replay the game from that extra tech points (sometime in the second
half . . .)

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
wrote:
> Hi Justin --
>
> This group is largely dead, moved to SonicCentral.com/abprmetrics,
but I believe I already saw you place this query there.
>
> Going strictly by appearances (this could lead to mis-guesses, e.g.
if I saw Jason Kidd I'd probably guess he was White):
>
> Jack Madden was definitely White (in appearance).  A longtime
prominent ref in the NBA (I saw him once call 5 technical fouls on
the Celtics and their coaches in about 10 seconds).
>
> Jake O'Donnell, same.
>
> There are several others who I'm pretty sure are White but I better
not say because I may've been thinking of someone else.
>
> "Arzoumanian" sounds like an Armenian name, and Armenians are
considered to be White (by the Federal census definitions; often they
check off "Other" instead of "White").  But I don't know what he
actually looked like so I cannot vouch for his ethnicity.
>
>
> --MKT
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Wolfers [mailto:justinwolfers@y...]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:52 AM
> To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [APBR_analysis] Referee study: Help coding referee race
>
>
>
>
> Hi. Let me start by introducing myself - Justin Wolfers - an
> economist, currently doing research on the NBA. Specifically, as
> many of you know, the NBA is majority African-American, while the
> refereeing corps are majority white. We are interested in trying to
> figure out whether this has any effects: Are white players treated
> differently by white referees, and are black players treated
> differently by black referees.
>
> We are in the midst of compiling our dataset. The toughest thing to
> do so far has been to code the race of the game officials; so far
we
> have been content to take a best guesstimate based on press photos
> of the games.
>
> So, our request for help:
> a) Does anybody know of a systematic collection of data or photos
> regarding NBA officials for the past 15 years?
>
> b) We are currently doing this by hand, and think that we've
> succeeded with about two-thirds of past referees. We are hopeful
> that a few keen-eyed fans will recall the race of some of those we
> are yet to find photos of.
>
> If you can help us with even one or two of these, I would be most
> appreciative.
>
> Specifically, our uncoded list of officials includes:
> Hank Armstrong
> Ron Arthur
> Suren Arzoumanian
> Mark Ayotte
> Bruce Bell
> Mike Bobiak
> Joe Borgia
> Jim Capers
> Craig Carmichael
> Ed Clarke
> Keith Cooper
> Mike Costabile
> Ed Crawford
> Mike Crumb
> Joe Derosa
> Gary Forest
> John Fullilove
> Ed Gaines
> Michael Glass
> Marcel Godfrey
> John Heatly
> Joe Henderson
> Darrell Humphrey
> Steve Javie
> Lee Jones
> Mike Krom
> Mike Lawerman
> Joe Lindsay
> Jack Madden
> Mike Maloney
> Woody Mayfield
> Quintin Murphy
> Jake O'donnell
> Larry Onusz
> Olandis Poole
> Troy Raymond
> Doug Rogan
> Wally Rooney
> Bennett Salvatore
> Bob Schoewe
> Troy Stevenson
> Ken Taylor
> George Toliver
> Allen Williams
> Kenneth Wilson
> Keith Winfrey
> Tommie Wodd
> Lionel Yates
> (and possibly a referee by the name of "Sehr").
>
> c) If anyone is aware of any related research, we would be most
> interested.
>
> I'm happy to take responses offline (justinwolfers@y...), and
> share them with others, or take responses here on the boards.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links

Over the last 25 years I have written about Canadian basketball for
the NBA...most recently for NBA.com on the history of all Canadians
to ever play or be drafted into the NBA (total 33 -17 played and 16
drafted that never played)
There is a Canadian named Richard Spears who informs me that he was
drafted by St. Louis Hawks in the 1964? Yet we do not have him
listed?
Here is the St. Louis draft for such year that I have found on every
source....
1964
Rnd Name College/HS/Country Note
1 Jeff Mullins Duke
2 Paul Silas Creighton
3 Art Becker Arizona State
4 Willie Murrell Kansas State
5 John Tresvant Seattle
6 Ernest Brock Virginia State
7 Maurice McHartley North Carolina A&T
8 Kendall Rhine Rice
9 Darel Carrier Western Kentucky
10 Frank Stephens Virginia State
11 Gerald Govan St. Mary of the Plains
12 Warren Sutton George Williams
13 Cecil Tuttle Georgetown (KY)
14 Bill Blair Virginia Military
15 Al Cech Detroit

Mr. Spears, who was a standout Canadian university player, sent me
this below e-mail for my site www.frozenhoops.com stating that he
was selected by the St. Louis Hawks in the same 1964 draft....

"Greetings Curtis. Cannot find my letter from the Hawks but many of
my teammates at the time saw it. Steve Konchalski was one of them.
Here is what I have: 1965 edition of Pro Basketball- "a topical
sports library book"
Draft Choices:
Jeff Mullins ,Duke
Paul  Silas,Creighton
Art Becker,Arizona State
Wllie Murrell,Kansas State
John Trasvant,Seattle
Eernie Brock ,Virginia State
Maurice McHeartley, North Carolina A and T
Kendall Rhine,Rice
Darel Carrier, Western Kentucky
Frank Stephens, Virginia State
Gerry Geron,St.Mary's Kan
Warren Sutton, Sir George Williams
Cecil Tuttle,Georgetown, Ky
Rich Spears, Acadia, Canada
Bill Blair, Detroit

Topical Magazines ,Inc Division Street, Derby Conn-published
quarterly Douglas Allen, Editorial Director

So it appears he was drafted in either the 13th or 14th round? Can
anybody help me as would like to correct such for the NBA if this is
the case? Also need info for story I am doing for our national
publication Ballerz Magazine.....
The NBA has no info on such either?

For your info here is the overall Canadian content I wrote for the
NBA....

The following Canadians have played in the NBA (current players in
bold):


Norm Baker Chicago 46-47
Hank Biasatti Toronto 46-47
Ron Crevier Golden State, Detroit 85-86
Selected by Chicago, 1983 NBA Draft, 75th pick
Rick Fox Boston 91-92 to 96-97
LA Lakers 97-98 to present
Selected by Boston, 1991 NBA Draft, 24th pick
Stewart Granger Cleveland 83-84
Atlanta 84-85
New York 86-87
Selected by Cleveland, 1983 NBA Draft, 24th pick
Lars Hansen Seattle 78-79
Selected by Chicago, 1976 NBA Draft, 37th pick
Brian Heaney Baltimore 69-70
Selected by Baltimore, 1969 NBA Draft, 215th pick
Bob Houbregs Milwaukee and Baltimore 53-54
Baltimore-Boston-Fort Wayne 54-55
Fort Wayne/Detroit 55-56 to 57-58
Selected by Milwaukee, 1953 NBA Draft
Todd MacCulloch Philadelphia 99-00 and 00-01
New Jersey 01-02
Philadelphia 02-03 to present
Selected by Philadelphia, 1999 NBA Draft, 47th pick
Jamaal Magloire Charlotte/New Orleans 00-01 to present
Selected by Charlotte, 2000 NBA Draft, 19th pick
Steve Nash Phoenix 96-97 and 97-98
Dallas 98-99 to present
Selected by Phoenix, 1996 NBA Draft, 15th pick
Leo Rautins Philadelphia 83-84
Atlanta 84-85
Selected by Philadelphia, 1983 NBA Draft, 17th pick
Mike Smrek Chicago 85-86
LA Lakers 86-87 to 87-88
San Antonio 88-89
Golden State 89-90
Golden State, Clippers 90-91
Golden State 91-92
Selected by Portland, 1985 NBA Draft, 25th pick
Gino Sovran Toronto 46-47
Ernie Vandeweghe New York 49-50 to 53-54 and 55-56
Selected by New York, 1949 NBA Draft
Bill Wennington Dallas 85-86 to 89-90
Sacramento 90-91 and 99-00
Chicago 93-94 to 98-99
Selected by Dallas, 1985 NBA Draft, 16th pick
Jim Zoet Detroit 82-83





Additional Canadians drafted by NBA teams:

Mike Brkovich
  Milwaukee, 1981 NBA Draft, 181st

David Coulthard
  Detroit, 1982 NBA Draft, 214th

Bob Croft
  Boston, 1970 NBA Draft, 123rd

Mickey Fox
  Detroit, 1975 NBA Draft, 169th
Portland, 1979 NBA Draft, 56th

Joe Kazanowski

Dan Meagher
  Utah, 1983 NBA Draft, 146th

Chicago, 1985 NBA Draft, 125th

Perry Mirkovich

Barry Mungar
  Portland, 1980 NBA Draft, 125th

Washington, 1986 Draft, 82nd

William Njoku
  Indiana, 1994 NBA Draft, 41st

Eli Pasquale
  Seattle, 1984 NBA Draft, 106th

George Rautins
  Buffalo, 1975 NBA Draft, 158th

Tony Simms

Karl Tilleman
  New York, 1983 NBA Draft 128th pick

Denver, 1984 NBA Draft, 79th

Phil Tollestrop

Jay Triano
  Buffalo 1973 NBA Draft 211th

LA Lakers, 1981 NBA Draft, 179th

Greg Wiltjer
  Chicago, 1984 NBA Draft, 43rd

* Some players may be added to above list. For example current
Philadelphia 76er's Samuel Dalembert came to Canada from Haiti when
he was 14 and really only played two years of organized basketball
here before relocating to the U.S. of A and he has never taken out
Canadian citzenship. Former L.A. Laker's guard Michael Penberthy
once talked about becoming a Canadian citizen as the California
natives mother is from London Ontario.

Thanks
Fellow APBR member Curtis J. Phillips

Interesting story, sounds a bit more like Madden than Strom.
I've got Strom's autobiography, I don't recall him mentioning
a protested game, of course he would be likely to leave such
a story out of his book anyway.


--MKT

-----Original Message-----
From: frontrange_ [mailto:tajallie@...]
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 12:04 PM
To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: Referee study: Help coding referee race


Hey Michael,

I believe it was Jack Madden who was invovled in one of the few
protested games that the NBA actually accepted as a valid protest and
it came about bcs of a technicals happy refs. I might have my facts a
little screwed up but I think the Nets were involved and if memory
serves me, Madden (or Strom) called a third tech on a player/coach
after he kicked him outta of the game. The NBA actually made them
replay the game from that extra tech points (sometime in the second
half . . .)

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
wrote:
> Hi Justin --
>
> This group is largely dead, moved to SonicCentral.com/abprmetrics,
but I believe I already saw you place this query there.
>
> Going strictly by appearances (this could lead to mis-guesses, e.g.
if I saw Jason Kidd I'd probably guess he was White):
>
> Jack Madden was definitely White (in appearance).  A longtime
prominent ref in the NBA (I saw him once call 5 technical fouls on
the Celtics and their coaches in about 10 seconds).
>
> Jake O'Donnell, same.
>
> There are several others who I'm pretty sure are White but I better
not say because I may've been thinking of someone else.
>
> "Arzoumanian" sounds like an Armenian name, and Armenians are
considered to be White (by the Federal census definitions; often they
check off "Other" instead of "White").  But I don't know what he
actually looked like so I cannot vouch for his ethnicity.
>
>
> --MKT
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Justin Wolfers [mailto:justinwolfers@y...]
> Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:52 AM
> To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [APBR_analysis] Referee study: Help coding referee race
>
>
>
>
> Hi. Let me start by introducing myself - Justin Wolfers - an
> economist, currently doing research on the NBA. Specifically, as
> many of you know, the NBA is majority African-American, while the
> refereeing corps are majority white. We are interested in trying to
> figure out whether this has any effects: Are white players treated
> differently by white referees, and are black players treated
> differently by black referees.
>
> We are in the midst of compiling our dataset. The toughest thing to
> do so far has been to code the race of the game officials; so far
we
> have been content to take a best guesstimate based on press photos
> of the games.
>
> So, our request for help:
> a) Does anybody know of a systematic collection of data or photos
> regarding NBA officials for the past 15 years?
>
> b) We are currently doing this by hand, and think that we've
> succeeded with about two-thirds of past referees. We are hopeful
> that a few keen-eyed fans will recall the race of some of those we
> are yet to find photos of.
>
> If you can help us with even one or two of these, I would be most
> appreciative.
>
> Specifically, our uncoded list of officials includes:
> Hank Armstrong
> Ron Arthur
> Suren Arzoumanian
> Mark Ayotte
> Bruce Bell
> Mike Bobiak
> Joe Borgia
> Jim Capers
> Craig Carmichael
> Ed Clarke
> Keith Cooper
> Mike Costabile
> Ed Crawford
> Mike Crumb
> Joe Derosa
> Gary Forest
> John Fullilove
> Ed Gaines
> Michael Glass
> Marcel Godfrey
> John Heatly
> Joe Henderson
> Darrell Humphrey
> Steve Javie
> Lee Jones
> Mike Krom
> Mike Lawerman
> Joe Lindsay
> Jack Madden
> Mike Maloney
> Woody Mayfield
> Quintin Murphy
> Jake O'donnell
> Larry Onusz
> Olandis Poole
> Troy Raymond
> Doug Rogan
> Wally Rooney
> Bennett Salvatore
> Bob Schoewe
> Troy Stevenson
> Ken Taylor
> George Toliver
> Allen Williams
> Kenneth Wilson
> Keith Winfrey
> Tommie Wodd
> Lionel Yates
> (and possibly a referee by the name of "Sehr").
>
> c) If anyone is aware of any related research, we would be most
> interested.
>
> I'm happy to take responses offline (justinwolfers@y...), and
> share them with others, or take responses here on the boards.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Justin
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links






Yahoo! Groups Links

Turned out it was Powers - he called three techs on King and
Loughery. . .check out this story on the game:

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/sports/8254402.htm

Only game in NBA history where three players played on both teams.

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
wrote:
> Interesting story, sounds a bit more like Madden than Strom.
> I've got Strom's autobiography, I don't recall him mentioning
> a protested game, of course he would be likely to leave such
> a story out of his book anyway.
>
>
> --MKT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frontrange_ [mailto:tajallie@h...]
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 12:04 PM
> To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: Referee study: Help coding referee race
>
>
> Hey Michael,
>
> I believe it was Jack Madden who was invovled in one of the few
> protested games that the NBA actually accepted as a valid protest
and
> it came about bcs of a technicals happy refs. I might have my facts
a
> little screwed up but I think the Nets were involved and if memory
> serves me, Madden (or Strom) called a third tech on a player/coach
> after he kicked him outta of the game. The NBA actually made them
> replay the game from that extra tech points (sometime in the second
> half . . .)
>
> --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada"
<tamada@o...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Justin --
> >
> > This group is largely dead, moved to
SonicCentral.com/abprmetrics,
> but I believe I already saw you place this query there.
> >
> > Going strictly by appearances (this could lead to mis-guesses,
e.g.
> if I saw Jason Kidd I'd probably guess he was White):
> >
> > Jack Madden was definitely White (in appearance).  A longtime
> prominent ref in the NBA (I saw him once call 5 technical fouls on
> the Celtics and their coaches in about 10 seconds).
> >
> > Jake O'Donnell, same.
> >
> > There are several others who I'm pretty sure are White but I
better
> not say because I may've been thinking of someone else.
> >
> > "Arzoumanian" sounds like an Armenian name, and Armenians are
> considered to be White (by the Federal census definitions; often
they
> check off "Other" instead of "White").  But I don't know what he
> actually looked like so I cannot vouch for his ethnicity.
> >
> >
> > --MKT
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Justin Wolfers [mailto:justinwolfers@y...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:52 AM
> > To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [APBR_analysis] Referee study: Help coding referee race
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi. Let me start by introducing myself - Justin Wolfers - an
> > economist, currently doing research on the NBA. Specifically, as
> > many of you know, the NBA is majority African-American, while the
> > refereeing corps are majority white. We are interested in trying
to
> > figure out whether this has any effects: Are white players
treated
> > differently by white referees, and are black players treated
> > differently by black referees.
> >
> > We are in the midst of compiling our dataset. The toughest thing
to
> > do so far has been to code the race of the game officials; so far
> we
> > have been content to take a best guesstimate based on press
photos
> > of the games.
> >
> > So, our request for help:
> > a) Does anybody know of a systematic collection of data or photos
> > regarding NBA officials for the past 15 years?
> >
> > b) We are currently doing this by hand, and think that we've
> > succeeded with about two-thirds of past referees. We are hopeful
> > that a few keen-eyed fans will recall the race of some of those
we
> > are yet to find photos of.
> >
> > If you can help us with even one or two of these, I would be most
> > appreciative.
> >
> > Specifically, our uncoded list of officials includes:
> > Hank Armstrong
> > Ron Arthur
> > Suren Arzoumanian
> > Mark Ayotte
> > Bruce Bell
> > Mike Bobiak
> > Joe Borgia
> > Jim Capers
> > Craig Carmichael
> > Ed Clarke
> > Keith Cooper
> > Mike Costabile
> > Ed Crawford
> > Mike Crumb
> > Joe Derosa
> > Gary Forest
> > John Fullilove
> > Ed Gaines
> > Michael Glass
> > Marcel Godfrey
> > John Heatly
> > Joe Henderson
> > Darrell Humphrey
> > Steve Javie
> > Lee Jones
> > Mike Krom
> > Mike Lawerman
> > Joe Lindsay
> > Jack Madden
> > Mike Maloney
> > Woody Mayfield
> > Quintin Murphy
> > Jake O'donnell
> > Larry Onusz
> > Olandis Poole
> > Troy Raymond
> > Doug Rogan
> > Wally Rooney
> > Bennett Salvatore
> > Bob Schoewe
> > Troy Stevenson
> > Ken Taylor
> > George Toliver
> > Allen Williams
> > Kenneth Wilson
> > Keith Winfrey
> > Tommie Wodd
> > Lionel Yates
> > (and possibly a referee by the name of "Sehr").
> >
> > c) If anyone is aware of any related research, we would be most
> > interested.
> >
> > I'm happy to take responses offline (justinwolfers@y...), and
> > share them with others, or take responses here on the boards.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Justin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links

Ah yes, I remember when that happened.  I didn't remember
the details such as the three technical fouls, but I
remembered the Nets and 76ers having to re-play a game,
even though some players had been traded between the
teams in the interim, and so they played for both teams.


--MKT


-----Original Message-----
From: frontrange_ [mailto:tajallie@...]
Sent: Tuesday, June 21, 2005 12:41 PM
To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: Referee study: Help coding referee race


Turned out it was Powers - he called three techs on King and
Loughery. . .check out this story on the game:

http://www.duluthsuperior.com/mld/duluthsuperior/sports/8254402.htm

Only game in NBA history where three players played on both teams.

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
wrote:
> Interesting story, sounds a bit more like Madden than Strom.
> I've got Strom's autobiography, I don't recall him mentioning
> a protested game, of course he would be likely to leave such
> a story out of his book anyway.
>
>
> --MKT
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: frontrange_ [mailto:tajallie@h...]
> Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 12:04 PM
> To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: Referee study: Help coding referee race
>
>
> Hey Michael,
>
> I believe it was Jack Madden who was invovled in one of the few
> protested games that the NBA actually accepted as a valid protest
and
> it came about bcs of a technicals happy refs. I might have my facts
a
> little screwed up but I think the Nets were involved and if memory
> serves me, Madden (or Strom) called a third tech on a player/coach
> after he kicked him outta of the game. The NBA actually made them
> replay the game from that extra tech points (sometime in the second
> half . . .)
>
> --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada"
<tamada@o...>
> wrote:
> > Hi Justin --
> >
> > This group is largely dead, moved to
SonicCentral.com/abprmetrics,
> but I believe I already saw you place this query there.
> >
> > Going strictly by appearances (this could lead to mis-guesses,
e.g.
> if I saw Jason Kidd I'd probably guess he was White):
> >
> > Jack Madden was definitely White (in appearance).  A longtime
> prominent ref in the NBA (I saw him once call 5 technical fouls on
> the Celtics and their coaches in about 10 seconds).
> >
> > Jake O'Donnell, same.
> >
> > There are several others who I'm pretty sure are White but I
better
> not say because I may've been thinking of someone else.
> >
> > "Arzoumanian" sounds like an Armenian name, and Armenians are
> considered to be White (by the Federal census definitions; often
they
> check off "Other" instead of "White").  But I don't know what he
> actually looked like so I cannot vouch for his ethnicity.
> >
> >
> > --MKT
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: Justin Wolfers [mailto:justinwolfers@y...]
> > Sent: Tuesday, April 19, 2005 11:52 AM
> > To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [APBR_analysis] Referee study: Help coding referee race
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Hi. Let me start by introducing myself - Justin Wolfers - an
> > economist, currently doing research on the NBA. Specifically, as
> > many of you know, the NBA is majority African-American, while the
> > refereeing corps are majority white. We are interested in trying
to
> > figure out whether this has any effects: Are white players
treated
> > differently by white referees, and are black players treated
> > differently by black referees.
> >
> > We are in the midst of compiling our dataset. The toughest thing
to
> > do so far has been to code the race of the game officials; so far
> we
> > have been content to take a best guesstimate based on press
photos
> > of the games.
> >
> > So, our request for help:
> > a) Does anybody know of a systematic collection of data or photos
> > regarding NBA officials for the past 15 years?
> >
> > b) We are currently doing this by hand, and think that we've
> > succeeded with about two-thirds of past referees. We are hopeful
> > that a few keen-eyed fans will recall the race of some of those
we
> > are yet to find photos of.
> >
> > If you can help us with even one or two of these, I would be most
> > appreciative.
> >
> > Specifically, our uncoded list of officials includes:
> > Hank Armstrong
> > Ron Arthur
> > Suren Arzoumanian
> > Mark Ayotte
> > Bruce Bell
> > Mike Bobiak
> > Joe Borgia
> > Jim Capers
> > Craig Carmichael
> > Ed Clarke
> > Keith Cooper
> > Mike Costabile
> > Ed Crawford
> > Mike Crumb
> > Joe Derosa
> > Gary Forest
> > John Fullilove
> > Ed Gaines
> > Michael Glass
> > Marcel Godfrey
> > John Heatly
> > Joe Henderson
> > Darrell Humphrey
> > Steve Javie
> > Lee Jones
> > Mike Krom
> > Mike Lawerman
> > Joe Lindsay
> > Jack Madden
> > Mike Maloney
> > Woody Mayfield
> > Quintin Murphy
> > Jake O'donnell
> > Larry Onusz
> > Olandis Poole
> > Troy Raymond
> > Doug Rogan
> > Wally Rooney
> > Bennett Salvatore
> > Bob Schoewe
> > Troy Stevenson
> > Ken Taylor
> > George Toliver
> > Allen Williams
> > Kenneth Wilson
> > Keith Winfrey
> > Tommie Wodd
> > Lionel Yates
> > (and possibly a referee by the name of "Sehr").
> >
> > c) If anyone is aware of any related research, we would be most
> > interested.
> >
> > I'm happy to take responses offline (justinwolfers@y...), and
> > share them with others, or take responses here on the boards.
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Justin
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links






Yahoo! Groups Links

.. time for Fantasy NBA at Yahoo!



Hi there, everyone!

I posted this here last year and there was a pretty decent response
so I'm going to give it another try this year. Hopefully people will
want to participate; it's really a good time.

If any of you is interested in playing Fantasy NBA at Yahoo this
season, I have set up a league for our group. Should you want to sign
up, please follow the instructions outlined below. In the event that
you are not interested, or if this kind of posting is unwelcome at
this group, I'm sorry to have bothered you or wasted your time. To
sign up:

Go here:

http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/register/joinprivateleag
ue

The league ID is 3252
The password is "celtics" without the quotation marks.

I have set up the league to accommodate 8 teams as I have found that
to be the optimum number of teams during my years of playing Fantasy
NBA. In the unlikely event that demand exceeds eight teams, let me
know and I will create another league or two for the runoff.

Thanks for reading, and I hope to see you sign up for this. Again,
sorry for bothering those of you for whom this holds no interest.

- Andy

Hi Andy,

I've signed up and am very interested.  However, this is my first
fantasy league participation.  I was looking over the league and I
eventually figured out that it's Rotisserie scoring, but I'm confused
about some of the stats.  I see TO, DISQ, EJCT among the stats.  Does
that mean turnovers and ejections are good?  And what is Disq?

Thanks for any explanations.

cheers,
-joe

Andy Finkelstein wrote:

> .. time for Fantasy NBA at Yahoo!
>
>
>
> Hi there, everyone!
>
> I posted this here last year and there was a pretty decent response
> so I'm going to give it another try this year. Hopefully people will
> want to participate; it's really a good time.
>
> If any of you is interested in playing Fantasy NBA at Yahoo this
> season, I have set up a league for our group. Should you want to sign
> up, please follow the instructions outlined below. In the event that
> you are not interested, or if this kind of posting is unwelcome at
> this group, I'm sorry to have bothered you or wasted your time. To
> sign up:
>
> Go here:
>
> http://basketball.fantasysports.yahoo.com/nba/register/joinprivateleag
> ue
>
> The league ID is 3252
> The password is "celtics" without the quotation marks.
>
> I have set up the league to accommodate 8 teams as I have found that
> to be the optimum number of teams during my years of playing Fantasy
> NBA. In the unlikely event that demand exceeds eight teams, let me
> know and I will create another league or two for the runoff.
>
> Thanks for reading, and I hope to see you sign up for this. Again,
> sorry for bothering those of you for whom this holds no interest.
>
> - Andy
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> SPONSORED LINKS
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Apologies for the noise to the group.  Other responders to Andy's mail
may want to note that the "reply-to" field is set to the whole group.

-joe

An excerpt from a current news article follows.  I'm guessing this is a
variation of the simplistic linear model based on differential points while
on the court.  Anyone have any details?

==

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Shaquille O'Neal may be one of the best basketball
players on the planet, but he should have been benched in this year's National
Basketball Association championships.

Or so concludes a new statistical measurement developed by Lenovo Group Ltd.,
the world's third-largest personal computer maker. Introduced by Lenovo and the
NBA on Monday, the statistic is supposed show which five players combine to
make the best team on the court at any one time.
--
Chris Long, San Diego Padres, 100 Park Boulevard, San Diego CA

Score: 0, Diff: 1, clong killed by a Harvard Math Team on  1

As I know Houston Rockets do.
I am also interested in whole list, because basketball is definetly
going that way.

Best Regards,
Marko Marjanovic,
Belgrade, Yugoslavia

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Chris Long" <galizur@...> wrote:
>
> Does anyone have a list of which teams in the NBA are currently
> employing a quantitative analyst?  I know the Supersonics do,
> as do the Mavericks (bit I don't know his/her name, however).
> --
> Chris Long, San Diego Padres, 100 Park Boulevard, San Diego CA
>
> Score: 0, Diff: 1, clong killed by a Harvard Math Team on  1
>

Hello, mi name is Patricio and I am from Quilmes (a city near Buenos
Aires), Argentina.
I am a fan of soccer and basket history and specially of the Lakers.
I am looking for old boxscores and some advices of how to make a
useful data base.
Forgive my English and I will be waiting for your answers.
Pato (that's my nickname)

Not a snowball’s chance…  Especially when a better argument was made during and after The Big Dance about changing the collegiate rules to allow for six fouls, so that the stars aren’t forced to sit for extended periods, a severe penalty for what often is a petty ticky-tack violation..  Dunno about you, but when I watch, it ain’t about the zebras.

 

Rod Nelson

 

---

From: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of William Tosheff
Sent: Wednesday, April 25, 2007 11:01 AM
To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [APBR_analysis] professional basketball ala the NBA

 

As the NBA playoff games are viewed....just think if a player were benched by rule after FIVE fouls not six. Think maybe the holding, shoving, illegal picks etc., would stop the action akin to the routines in World Wrestling, and make basketball a cleaner game....pollution isn't the only thing that needs to be fixed.............tosh

Horry/Rodman...Parker/Paxton...Pipin/Ginobili...Finley/?....Thre
difference is Duncan...and what about Robinson?

My thoughts would be to see who played the most
minutes during both teams championship years and
create a 12 man roster based on that information.

Like for SA

Robinosn
Duncan
Bowen
Ginobili
Parker

Reserves
Elliot
Nesto
A Johnson
Barry
Ellie
Horry
Rose

Also, SA first Championship was only 50 games, may
need to look at a per minute per game average.

http://www.basketballreference.com/leaders/leadersearch.htm

I like the Basketballreference.com and
basketball-reference.com for searches.

Chicago would need more Research, 6 title teams
--- Da BIG Dog <stayrdy_2000@...> wrote:

> As a arguement I was wondering if they went head to
> head in a 7 game series who would win between the
> 90's championship Bulls and the 00's championship
> Spurs.  I am tring to make a mock series with game
> by game reports and was wondering what you all
> thought of the arguement as well as the outcomes.
> The rosters I have are:
>
>   Chicago                     San Antonio
>   C - B. Cartwright         C - D. Robinson
>   F - S. Pippen              F - T. Duncan
>   F - H. Grant                F - B. Bowen
>   G - M. Jordan             G - T. Parker
>   G - J. Paxton             G - M. Ginobili
>
>   Reserves                   Reserves
>   F - D. Rodman           F - M. Finley
>   G - BJ Armstrong       G - S. Elliot
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out
> Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool.




________________________________________________________________________________\
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--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "tosheff" <tosheff@...> wrote:
>
> Horry/Rodman...Parker/Paxton...Pipin/Ginobili...Finley/?....Thre
> difference is Duncan...and what about Robinson?
>

What exactly are you showing here?

Finley never played with Robinson or Elliott, and Elliott never played with some
of the others, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to do here.  Not to
mention you probably have the wrong 00's team.

>From: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
>Date: 2007/06/02 Sat AM 11:33:39 CDT
>To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [APBR_analysis] Digest Number 1027

>APBR_analysis            APBR_analysis            Messages In This Digest     
(2               Messages)
1.    best team in modern era  From:       Da BIG Dog
2.    ther best of the best  From:       tosheff
View All Topics | Create New Topic                     Messages
1.                     best team in modern era              Posted by:      "Da
BIG Dog"            stayrdy_2000@...                     
stayrdy_2000                             Fri Jun 1, 2007 7:20 pm       
(PST)                    As a arguement I was wondering if they went head to
head in a 7 game series who would win between the 90's championship Bulls and
the 00's championship Spurs.  I am tring to make a mock series with game by game
reports and was wondering what you all thought of the arguement as well as the
outcomes.  The rosters I have are:
>
>  Chicago                     San Antonio
>  C - B. Cartwright         C - D. Robinson
>  F - S. Pippen              F - T. Duncan
>  F - H. Grant                F - B. Bowen
>  G - M. Jordan             G - T. Parker
>  G - J. Paxton             G - M. Ginobili
>
>  Reserves                   Reserves
>  F - D. Rodman           F - M. Finley
>  G - BJ Armstrong       G - S. Elliot
>
>---------------------------------
>Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car
Finder tool.                                      Back to top
Reply to sender           |                      Reply to group           |
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>                      Messages in this topic            (1)
2.                     ther best of the best              Posted by:     
"tosheff"            tosheff@...                                      
tosheff                             Sat Jun 2, 2007 4:22 am       
(PST)                   
Horry/Rodman...Parker/Paxton...Pipin/Ginobili...Finley/?....Thre
>difference is Duncan...and what about Robinson?
>
>                                      Back to top
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--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard@...

That is why I stipulated the entire decade.  Who would you suggest
come out of this decade?

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gary Collard <gmcollard@...>
wrote:
>
> Finley never played with Robinson or Elliott, and Elliott never
played with some of the others, so I'm not even sure what you're
trying to do here.  Not to mention you probably have the wrong 00's
team.
>
> >From: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
> >Date: 2007/06/02 Sat AM 11:33:39 CDT
> >To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
> >Subject: [APBR_analysis] Digest Number 1027
>
> >APBR_analysis            APBR_analysis            Messages In This
Digest      (2
Messages)
1.    best team in modern era  From:       Da BIG
Dog                                                        2.    ther
best of the best  From:
tosheff                                            View All Topics |
Create New Topic
Messages                            1.                     best team
in modern era              Posted by:      "Da BIG Dog"
stayrdy_2000@...                     
stayrdy_2000                             Fri Jun 1, 2007
7:20 pm        (PST)                    As a arguement I was
wondering if they went head to head in a 7 game series who would win
between the 90's championship Bulls and the 00's championship Spurs.
I am tring to make a mock series with game by game reports and was
wondering what you all thought of the arguement as well as the
outcomes.  The rosters I have are:
> >
> >  Chicago                     San Antonio
> >  C - B. Cartwright         C - D. Robinson
> >  F - S. Pippen              F - T. Duncan
> >  F - H. Grant                F - B. Bowen
> >  G - M. Jordan             G - T. Parker
> >  G - J. Paxton             G - M. Ginobili
> >
> >  Reserves                   Reserves
> >  F - D. Rodman           F - M. Finley
> >  G - BJ Armstrong       G - S. Elliot
> >
> >---------------------------------
> >Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos
new Car Finder tool.                                      Back to
top                                                   Reply to
sender           |                      Reply to group
|                      Reply via web post
> >                      Messages in this topic
(1)
2.                     ther best of the best              Posted
by:      "tosheff"            tosheff@...
                   tosheff                             Sat
Jun 2, 2007 4:22 am        (PST)
Horry/Rodman...Parker/Paxton...Pipin/Ginobili...Finley/?....Thre
> >difference is Duncan...and what about Robinson?
> >
> >                                      Back to
top                                                   Reply to
sender           |                      Reply to group
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> --
> Gary Collard
> SABR-L Moderator
> gmcollard@...
>

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "tosheff" <tosheff@...> wrote:
>
> Horry/Rodman...Parker/Paxton...Pipin/Ginobili...Finley/?....Thre
> difference is Duncan...and what about Robinson?
>

What exactly are you showing here?

Finley never played with Robinson or Elliott, and Elliott never played with some of the others, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to do here. Not to mention you probably have the wrong 00's team.

>From: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
>Date: 2007/06/02 Sat AM 11:33:39 CDT
>To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: [APBR_analysis] Digest Number 1027

>APBR_analysis APBR_analysis Messages In This Digest (2 Messages) 1. best team in modern era From: Da BIG Dog 2. ther best of the best From: tosheff View All Topics | Create New Topic Messages 1. best team in modern era Posted by: "Da BIG Dog" stayrdy_2000@yahoo.com   stayrdy_2000 Fri Jun 1, 2007 7:20 pm (PST) As a arguement I was wondering if they went head to head in a 7 game series who would win between the 90's championship Bulls and the 00's championship Spurs. I am tring to make a mock series with game by game reports and was wondering what you all thought of the arguement as well as the outcomes. The rosters I have are:
>
> Chicago San Antonio
> C - B. Cartwright C - D. Robinson
> F - S. Pippen F - T. Duncan
> F - H. Grant F - B. Bowen
> G - M. Jordan G - T. Parker
> G - J. Paxton G - M. Ginobili
>
> Reserves Reserves
> F - D. Rodman F - M. Finley
> G - BJ Armstrong G - S. Elliot
>
>---------------------------------
>Choose the right car based on your needs. Check out Yahoo! Autos new Car Finder tool. Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
> Messages in this topic (1) 2. ther best of the best Posted by: "tosheff" tosheff@yahoo.com   tosheff Sat Jun 2, 2007 4:22 am (PST) Horry/Rodman...Parker/Paxton...Pipin/Ginobili...Finley/?....Thre
>difference is Duncan...and what about Robinson?
>
> Back to top Reply to sender | Reply to group | Reply via web post
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--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard@yahoo.com

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, William Tosheff <tosheff@...>
wrote:
>
> Just random selections with match -ups....
>
> Gary Collard <gmcollard@...>
wrote:                                  Finley never played with
Robinson or Elliott, and Elliott never played with some of the
others, so I'm not even sure what you're trying to do here.  Not to
mention you probably have the wrong 00's team.
>
>  >From: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
>  >Date: 2007/06/02 Sat AM 11:33:39 CDT
>  >To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
>  >Subject: [APBR_analysis] Digest Number 1027
>
>  >APBR_analysis            APBR_analysis            Messages In
This Digest      (2
Messages)
1.    best team in modern era  From:       Da BIG
Dog                                                        2.    ther
best of the best  From:
tosheff                                            View All Topics |
Create New Topic
Messages                            1.                     best team
in modern era              Posted by:      "Da BIG Dog"
stayrdy_2000@...                    Â
stayrdy_2000                             Fri Jun 1, 2007 7:20Â
pm        (PST)                    As a arguement I was wondering if
they went head to head in a 7 game series who would win between the
90's championship Bulls and the 00's championship Spurs.  I am tring
to make a mock series with game by game reports and was wondering
what you all thought of the
>  arguement as well as the outcomes.  The rosters I have are:
>  >
>  >  Chicago                     San Antonio
>  >  C - B. Cartwright         C - D. Robinson
>  >  F - S. Pippen              F - T. Duncan
>  >  F - H. Grant                F - B. Bowen
>  >  G - M. Jordan             G - T. Parker
>  >  G - J. Paxton             G - M. Ginobili
>  >
>  >  Reserves                   Reserves
>  >  F - D. Rodman           F - M. Finley
>  >  G - BJ Armstrong       G - S. Elliot
>  >
>  >---------------------------------
>  >Choose the right car based on your needs.  Check out Yahoo! Autos
new Car Finder tool.                                      Back to
top                                                   Reply to
sender           |                      Reply to group
|                      Reply via web post
>  >                      Messages in this topic
(1)
2.                     ther best of the best              Posted
by:      "tosheff"            tosheff@...
                   tosheff                             Sat Jun 2,Â
2007 4:22Â am        (PST)
Horry/Rodman...Parker/Paxton...Pipin/Ginobili...Finley/?....Thre
>  >difference is Duncan...and what about Robinson?
>  >
>  >                                      Back to
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>
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>
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>
If you did that than you wouldn't answer who the best team of the
modern era was and it is only fair to put the best players from each
team against each other.  Limiting it to 7 players per just made it
logistically easier.

The way I see it the match-ups would be

   Bulls O/Spurs D               Spurs O/ Bulls D
Cartwright/Robinson             Robinson/Cartwright
Pippen/Bowen                    Duncan/Pippen
Grant/Duncan                    Bowen/Grant
Jordan/Parker                   Ginobili/Paxson
Paxson/Ginobili                 Parker/Jordan

But than I am not the coach, just makes sense this way to me.

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, William Tosheff <tosheff@...>
wrote:
>
> Comparring apples with apples...fingerprints too. Match-ups.
>
> "The BIG Dog, Little T" <stayrdy_2000@...>
wrote:                                  --- In
APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "tosheff" <tosheff@> wrote:
>  >
>  > Horry/Rodman...Parker/Paxton...Pipin/Ginobili...Finley/?....Thre
>  > difference is Duncan...and what about Robinson?
>  >
>
>  What exactly are you showing here?
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Shape Yahoo! in your own image.  Join our Network Research Panel
today!
>

Well, as I said I would suggest a different team to start with, but given that
one I would not select Elliott, who played only two partial seasons (71 games
total) in the decade, averaging around 22 minutes and 7 points a game.

From: "The BIG Dog, Little T"

That is why I stipulated the entire decade.  Who would you suggest
come out of this decade?
>
>--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Gary Collard <gmcollard@...>
>wrote:
>>
>> Finley never played with Robinson or Elliott, and Elliott never
>played with some of the others, so I'm not even sure what you're
>trying to do here.  Not to mention you probably have the wrong 00's
>team.


--
Gary Collard
SABR-L Moderator
gmcollard@...