Jerome James's quote was one of the all-time NBA
howlers.  If Terry Pluto ever does an updated
version of _Tall Tales_ it has to be in it.


--MKT


-----Original Message-----
From: John Hollinger [mailto:alleyoop2@...]
Sent: Monday, October 11, 2004 8:18 PM
To: APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [APBR_analysis] Re: 2nd year improvement ?




The first thing you need to tell them is, "I don't who McMillan's
talking about, because I only worry about Dean Oliver." Then maybe
you can get into a fight with Joe Forte in the shower.

Best of luck with the new gig,

John



--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Dean Oliver" <deano@r...>
wrote:
>
> --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Greg" <gabrielandjared@y...>
wrote:
> >
> >
> > Is the improvement between first year rookies and second year
players
> > quantifiable? In other words, has anyone figured the average
> > improvement in the major statistical categories for 2nd year
players?
> >
> > I realize that with the change in age and experience(the increase
in
> > foreign and high school players, and the drop in the number of
college
> > seniors), that the numbers would be different now than ten years
> > ago...so I am curious if anyone has done the math on this?
> >
>
> Kind of a clumsy way to do this, but I gotta...
>
> I got myself a job in the NBA.  Seattle.  We'll see how much
influence
> I have, but it's a lot more than I ever had before and it could be
> quite a lot.  As a result, I can't answer things like this because,
> though I've done the work and there are measurable effects, I really
> want to win and holding onto info like this probably helps.  I've
got
> approval to do some research and writing for public, and we'll be
> feeling out what that material is.  But I'm not there yet....
>
> I'll definitely be quieter here.  Keep up the good research.
>
> DeanO
>
> Dean Oliver
> Author, Basketball on Paper
> http://www.basketballonpaper.com
> "Dean Oliver looks at basketball with a fresh perspective.  If you
> want a new way to analyze the game, this book is for you.  You'll
> never watch a game the same way again.  We use his stuff and it
helps
> us."  Yvan Kelly, Scout, Seattle Sonics







Yahoo! Groups Links

Hello I am new to the group, and was wondering if anyone had the
following data;

I am looking for stats based on what frequently a team takes a shot
in the shot clock but broken down for home and away, and further
broken down for 1H and 2H.  Basically something similar to what
82games has but further broken down by half and home/away.

I am also looking for some ref data - broken down by individual ref,
and refs as a 3 person team. The data I am looking for would detail
average number of fouls called, number of O fouls called, and average
score of games involving those refs.  If anyone has access to this
data I would be more than willing to work something out.

Regards

sugarqubed@...

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
wrote:
> Jerome James's quote was one of the all-time NBA
> howlers.  If Terry Pluto ever does an updated
> version of _Tall Tales_ it has to be in it.

What was that ?

Is this turning into the Sonic insider joint ?


DeanO: Hope all the tough questions are some use to you in the new
arena.

-----Original Message-----
From: Mike G [mailto:msg_53@...]
Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 3:50 AM


>--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "Michael Tamada" <tamada@o...>
>wrote:
>> Jerome James's quote was one of the all-time NBA
>> howlers.  If Terry Pluto ever does an updated
>> version of _Tall Tales_ it has to be in it.
>
>What was that ?
>
>Is this turning into the Sonic insider joint ?

I thought this place was already.  ;)


The Jerome James quote:  Coach Nate McMillan was noting that the
Sonics were thinking too much of themselves and not enough about
the team.  Or maybe he was talking specifically about JJ being
too selfish.  JJ replied with this:

"I don't have the first clue he is talking about, because all I worry
about is Jerome."

I think this quote came from just last year, but maybe it was the
year before.  Instant classic.


--MKT

I can't believe they are thinking about this seriously.
Carlos


--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, bchaikin@a... wrote:
>
> caught this little gem of of www.azcentral.com... first they brought
the 3pt
> line in for 3 years, now they want to get rid of it - but for just
some of the
> game... sheesh...
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> NBA thinking of banning 3-Pointers until end of game Bloomberg News
> Oct. 13, 2004 12:00 AM
>
> The National Basketball Association is considering a plan to abolish
the
> 3-point shot until the end of games to increase shooting percentages
and make the
> sport more aesthetically pleasing.
>
> The NBA may ban 3-pointers until there's five minutes left in the
game in its
> development league this season, Stu Jackson, NBA senior vice
president of
> basketball operations, said in a telephone interview. The National
Basketball
> Development League season is scheduled to begin Nov. 19.
>
> "We've talked about it," Jackson said. "We're wrestling with the
idea." He
> said it was too early to tell if the NBA would change the rule.
>
> "I don't want to jump that far ahead," he said. "It's a very radical
change,
> certainly one that would take a great deal of time to get support if
there
> were positive aspects."
>
> Banning the 3-point shot until late in the game might lead to a more
up-tempo
> style and higher shooting percentages because players would be
encouraged to
> take shots closer to the basket. It also would stop players on fast
breaks
> from pulling up for a shot from the three-point line instead of
going for layups.
>
> The NBA instituted the 3-point shot in 1979. Last season, teams shot a
> combined 34.7 percent from beyond the 3-point line, which ranges
from 22 feet to
> 23-feet, 9-inches from the basket.
>
> Rules Changes
>
> Tinkering or even overhauling the rules isn't uncommon for the NBA,
which
> altered its guidelines allowing teams to play zone defenses before
the 2001-02
> season. Previously, only man-to-man defense was permitted.
>
> One of the reasons the NBA started the six-team development league
in 2001
> was to use it as a testing ground for rules changes, Jackson said.
>
> Steve Kerr, who made a record 45 percent of the 3-pointers that he
attempted
> in his career, said he supports the elimination of the long-range shot.
>
> "I kind of liked the 3-pointer before every player on every team was a
> 3-point shooter," Kerr, who won five NBA championships, said in a
telephone
> interview. "It's being shot way too often these days and it's
hurting the game. I
> wouldn't mind seeing an experiment that gets rid of it

hey everyone,

I came across this little article in the NBA Daily.  It's about how the
Jazz and Andrei Kirilenko are stalled in negotiations for Kirilenko's
deal:

http://click.nba.com/index.cfm?n15001s809c5716264t647e89811291o101687

Do the Jazz know something that I don't?  Given Kirilenko's performance
(exceptional...among the few best in the league; most people on this group
seem to agree with that), durability (he hasn't had a serious injury yet),
age (he doesn't turn 25 until next February), and career trajectory (thus
far, he's exhibited steady improvement), does anyone see ANY reason at all
not to max this guy out?  I can't imagine what the Jazz could possibly be
thinking.

Mikey

Michael Llort Stewart
Harvard College
465 Dunster Mail Ctr
Cambridge, MA 02138
(617) 257-3457
mlstewar@...

Steve Kerr said: "It's being shot way too often these days and it's hurting
the game."

That is an interesting statement. Which begs the questions: How often should
it be shot? And hurts the game _how_ ?

First question. I think there was some talk in here during the Olympics
about how often the threepointers should be attempted. It was hypothesized,
I think by John H, that the amount would be a trade off between the PPS on
threepointers, compared to the PPS on driving the lane + foulsshots gained
driving the lane minus turnovers lost driving the lane. Right? It seemed
like if a team could hit a certain percentage from downtown then that's what
they should do ALL THE TIME, it would be the percentage play. The reward for
shooting threes is greater than the reward minus the penalty of taking it to
the hoop.

Second question. I don't know what to make of it. Lithuania seemed do pretty
well shooting threes all the time and they were entertaining.

Maybe they want to delay resigning him until the new CBA is in place,
which could be less favorable to the players in terms of contract
lengths and raises.

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Michael Stewart <mlstewar@f...>
wrote:
> hey everyone,
>
> I came across this little article in the NBA Daily.  It's about how
the
> Jazz and Andrei Kirilenko are stalled in negotiations for
Kirilenko's
> deal:
>
> http://click.nba.com/index.cfm?
n15001s809c5716264t647e89811291o101687
>
> Do the Jazz know something that I don't?  Given Kirilenko's
performance
> (exceptional...among the few best in the league; most people on this
group
> seem to agree with that), durability (he hasn't had a serious injury
yet),
> age (he doesn't turn 25 until next February), and career trajectory
(thus
> far, he's exhibited steady improvement), does anyone see ANY reason
at all
> not to max this guy out?  I can't imagine what the Jazz could
possibly be
> thinking.
>
> Mikey
>
> Michael Llort Stewart
> Harvard College
> 465 Dunster Mail Ctr
> Cambridge, MA 02138
> (617) 257-3457
> mlstewar@f...

I can't believe they are thinking about this seriously.
Carlos


--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, bchaikin@a... wrote:
>
> caught this little gem of of www.azcentral.com... first they brought
the 3pt
> line in for 3 years, now they want to get rid of it - but for just
some of the
> game... sheesh...
>
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ---------------------------------------------
>
> NBA thinking of banning 3-Pointers until end of game Bloomberg News
> Oct. 13, 2004 12:00 AM
>
> The National Basketball Association is considering a plan to abolish
the
> 3-point shot until the end of games to increase shooting percentages
and make the
> sport more aesthetically pleasing.
>
> The NBA may ban 3-pointers until there's five minutes left in the
game in its
> development league this season, Stu Jackson, NBA senior vice
president of
> basketball operations, said in a telephone interview. The National
Basketball
> Development League season is scheduled to begin Nov. 19.
>
> "We've talked about it," Jackson said. "We're wrestling with the
idea." He
> said it was too early to tell if the NBA would change the rule.
>
> "I don't want to jump that far ahead," he said. "It's a very radical
change,
> certainly one that would take a great deal of time to get support if
there
> were positive aspects."
>
> Banning the 3-point shot until late in the game might lead to a more
up-tempo
> style and higher shooting percentages because players would be
encouraged to
> take shots closer to the basket. It also would stop players on fast
breaks
> from pulling up for a shot from the three-point line instead of
going for layups.
>
> The NBA instituted the 3-point shot in 1979. Last season, teams shot a
> combined 34.7 percent from beyond the 3-point line, which ranges
from 22 feet to
> 23-feet, 9-inches from the basket.
>
> Rules Changes
>
> Tinkering or even overhauling the rules isn't uncommon for the NBA,
which
> altered its guidelines allowing teams to play zone defenses before
the 2001-02
> season. Previously, only man-to-man defense was permitted.
>
> One of the reasons the NBA started the six-team development league
in 2001
> was to use it as a testing ground for rules changes, Jackson said.
>
> Steve Kerr, who made a record 45 percent of the 3-pointers that he
attempted
> in his career, said he supports the elimination of the long-range shot.
>
> "I kind of liked the 3-pointer before every player on every team was a
> 3-point shooter," Kerr, who won five NBA championships, said in a
telephone
> interview. "It's being shot way too often these days and it's
hurting the game. I
> wouldn't mind seeing an experiment that gets rid of it

This, in response to the post earlier today about the NBA considering
altering the rules regarding the 3-pt shot:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=ap-nbdl-rulesexperiment&prov=ap&type=lgns

Heh, I think Kerr just wants to maintain his record!

Ben


--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
<highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
> I hate the NBA's ability to make rule changes that are artifcial.
like moving the ball ahead on a timeout. Playing with one set of rules
for 43 minutes and another for the final 5 sounds incredibly dumb.
>
> Why don't they try something redical like drafting and signing
players who can shoot over 40%, not guys who can jump over 40 inches?
Or, hire coaches who can design an offensive game plan that is more
sophisticated than 3 guys stand on the side and watch a pick and roll?
or, shorten the season so players are more motivated to go out and run
down court every night?
>
> Eliminated the three-point line will lead to a game resembling a
free throw contest. It'll look like a game at the park when it's windy
and nobody wants to shoot from beyond 7 feet. What's the point of
shooting an outside shot? Why sign/draft a shooter? With no three
point line, I'd want all defensive players who can get out and run,
post up inside and attack the rim with the dribble. It would manifest
every problem most believe currently plagues the league.
>
> That being said, the key part of Kerr's statement is that the 3-pt
was good before everyone thought they were a 3-point shooter. coaches
and players need to exercise some control over who is throwing up 23
footers. It's called shot selection.
>
> B
>
> carlos12155 <carlosmanuel@b...> wrote:
>
> I can't believe they are thinking about this seriously.
> Carlos
>
>
> --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, bchaikin@a... wrote:
> >
> > caught this little gem of of www.azcentral.com... first they brought
> the 3pt
> > line in for 3 years, now they want to get rid of it - but for just
> some of the
> > game... sheesh...
> >
> >
>
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ---------------------------------------------
> >
> > NBA thinking of banning 3-Pointers until end of game Bloomberg News
> > Oct. 13, 2004 12:00 AM
> >
> > The National Basketball Association is considering a plan to abolish
> the
> > 3-point shot until the end of games to increase shooting percentages
> and make the
> > sport more aesthetically pleasing.
> >
> > The NBA may ban 3-pointers until there's five minutes left in the
> game in its
> > development league this season, Stu Jackson, NBA senior vice
> president of
> > basketball operations, said in a telephone interview. The National
> Basketball
> > Development League season is scheduled to begin Nov. 19.
> >
> > "We've talked about it," Jackson said. "We're wrestling with the
> idea." He
> > said it was too early to tell if the NBA would change the rule.
> >
> > "I don't want to jump that far ahead," he said. "It's a very radical
> change,
> > certainly one that would take a great deal of time to get support if
> there
> > were positive aspects."
> >
> > Banning the 3-point shot until late in the game might lead to a more
> up-tempo
> > style and higher shooting percentages because players would be
> encouraged to
> > take shots closer to the basket. It also would stop players on fast
> breaks
> > from pulling up for a shot from the three-point line instead of
> going for layups.
> >
> > The NBA instituted the 3-point shot in 1979. Last season, teams
shot a
> > combined 34.7 percent from beyond the 3-point line, which ranges
> from 22 feet to
> > 23-feet, 9-inches from the basket.
> >
> > Rules Changes
> >
> > Tinkering or even overhauling the rules isn't uncommon for the NBA,
> which
> > altered its guidelines allowing teams to play zone defenses before
> the 2001-02
> > season. Previously, only man-to-man defense was permitted.
> >
> > One of the reasons the NBA started the six-team development league
> in 2001
> > was to use it as a testing ground for rules changes, Jackson said.
> >
> > Steve Kerr, who made a record 45 percent of the 3-pointers that he
> attempted
> > in his career, said he supports the elimination of the long-range
shot.
> >
> > "I kind of liked the 3-pointer before every player on every team
was a
> > 3-point shooter," Kerr, who won five NBA championships, said in a
> telephone
> > interview. "It's being shot way too often these days and it's
> hurting the game. I
> > wouldn't mind seeing an experiment that gets rid of it
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
>
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Get it on your mobile phone.

You are correct, sir. Basically, even if the CBA doesn't change at
all the Jazz have no incentive to max out Kirilenko right now,
because they can just do the same thing a year from now when he's a
restricted free agent and it would eliminate some of the risk. But if
the contract rules change they could also end up getting the same
player on a much better deal a year from now.

The only reason to extend somebody early is if they agree to a below-
market salary, unless they want out so bad that they're willing to
take a one-year tender after year four, so in this case AK would have
to agree to take less than the max for the Jazz to have any reason to
negotiate.

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "jimmy_purnell"
<unstandable@y...> wrote:
>
> Maybe they want to delay resigning him until the new CBA is in
place,
> which could be less favorable to the players in terms of contract
> lengths and raises.
>
> --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Michael Stewart
<mlstewar@f...>
> wrote:
> > hey everyone,
> >
> > I came across this little article in the NBA Daily.  It's about
how
> the
> > Jazz and Andrei Kirilenko are stalled in negotiations for
> Kirilenko's
> > deal:
> >
> > http://click.nba.com/index.cfm?
> n15001s809c5716264t647e89811291o101687
> >
> > Do the Jazz know something that I don't?  Given Kirilenko's
> performance
> > (exceptional...among the few best in the league; most people on
this
> group
> > seem to agree with that), durability (he hasn't had a serious
injury
> yet),
> > age (he doesn't turn 25 until next February), and career
trajectory
> (thus
> > far, he's exhibited steady improvement), does anyone see ANY
reason
> at all
> > not to max this guy out?  I can't imagine what the Jazz could
> possibly be
> > thinking.
> >
> > Mikey
> >
> > Michael Llort Stewart
> > Harvard College
> > 465 Dunster Mail Ctr
> > Cambridge, MA 02138
> > (617) 257-3457
> > mlstewar@f...

> You are correct, sir. Basically, even if the CBA doesn't change at
> all the Jazz have no incentive to max out Kirilenko right now,
> because they can just do the same thing a year from now when he's
> a restricted free agent and it would eliminate some of the risk.
> But if the contract rules change they could also end up getting
> the same player on a much better deal a year from now.

Well, this year I think we do have to at least consider the
possibility that the NBA changes Restricted Free Agency. You would
assume players would be grandfathered in, but they weren't in
the '95 CBA -- Shaquille O'Neal's rookie contract, as I recall,
originally called for him to be an RFA in the summer of '96, but
that CBA did away with all RFA and allowed him to be a UFA.

Now that's an extremely unlikely possibility, but I think you have
to at least take it into account.

I know I am really late here - but congrats DeanO!

I hope you can help that franchise in the great northwest.  I'm sure you can.

I may fly down from Anchorage and catch a couple Sonic games this
season - what the heck.

Dan

danthestatman@...


On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 17:57:56 -0000, Dean Oliver <deano@...> wrote:
>
>
> Kevin is a member of the dreaded media ;)  I'm working with
> management, the scouts, and coaching staff.  And Kevin, of course, is
> great to have around.
>
> The media here is pretty down on the Sonics this year.  I am pleased
> after a couple days with the team's interest in what I'm doing.  I'm
> definitely learning styles of communication and what people are
> comfortable with.  And, of course, building trust.
>
> I will say that I love being back on a practice court and diagramming
> plays, too.
>
> DeanO
>
> Dean Oliver
> Author, Basketball on Paper
> http://www.basketballonpaper.com
> "Oliver's book provides an insightful framework for basketball.  His
> approach highlights and simplifies the basic goals of team offenses
> and defenses, with an interesting description of how teamwork among
> players with different roles can be evaluated.  This book is a unique
> and surprisingly practical addition to a coach's library."  Dean
> Smith, Hall of Fame Basketball Coach, University of North Carolina
>
> --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, Coach McCormick
> <highfivehoopschool@y...> wrote:
> > Does that mean you're working with Kevin Pelton too? We're all going
> to have to be Sonics fans now; Heaven knows nobody else is rooting for
> them.
> >
> > Good luck.
> >
> > B
> >
> > Charlie Board <cboard@t...> wrote:
> >
> > >I got myself a job in the NBA.  Seattle.
> >
> > Congratulations, Dean!!!
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
> >
> >    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> > APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
> >
> >    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Do you Yahoo!?
> > vote.yahoo.com - Register online to vote today!
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>

ivan ivan wrote:
> Is the distribution of games won by each team in the NBA over one
> season normally distributed?


More or less. Take a look:
http://members.rogers.com/igorkupfer/stats/winpercentages/WinP.html


--ed

For those of us who could be described as stat geeks lite, what's a
normal distribution? Is that the "bell curve"?

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, ivan ivan <teachermrivan@y...>
wrote:
> thanks
>
> igor eduardo küpfer <edkupfer@r...> wrote:ivan ivan wrote:
> > Is the distribution of games won by each team in the NBA over one
> > season normally distributed?
>
>
> More or less. Take a look:
> http://members.rogers.com/igorkupfer/stats/winpercentages/WinP.html
>
>
> --ed
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups SponsorADVERTISEMENT
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>    To visit your group on the web, go to:
> http://groups.yahoo.com/group/APBR_analysis/
>
>    To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
> APBR_analysis-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
>
>    Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now.

wizardskev wrote:
> For those of us who could be described as stat geeks lite, what's a
> normal distribution? Is that the "bell curve"?

Yes. The normal distribution is also known as Gaussian. It has some special
properties that make it useful for team sports analysis (for example,
http://www.rawbw.com/~deano/helpscrn/corrgauss.html), so it is sometimes
_assumed_ that the distribution of whatever we're looking at is normal, but
it's occasionally necessary to check if it is.

--
ed (also a stat geek lite)

SportsCenter had an interesting comparison, showing
that the Astros and Cards have an equal number of runs
(29), batting average, and ERA (4.80) over their 6
games so far.

Does anyone think this is pure coincidence, or could
it be that if their runs and batting avg are the same,
then their ERAs must surely also be the same?

Can we draw statistical parallels in basketball? An
easy one would be TOs vs TO's forced. However, I'm
wondering if something more in-depth can be drawn out.



_______________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Declare Yourself - Register online to vote today!
http://vote.yahoo.com

For what its worth I thought I'd pass along an article found online in the
Orlando Sentinal.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-sptmagic21102104o
ct21,1,4749763.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines

It's a puff piece on Turkoglu but in it there is a list of Winston Sagarin's
Top 5 ballplayers (no one else listed). W-S sees it:  1. Turkoglu 2. Vince
Carter. 3. Garnett. 4. Brad Miller. 5. Manu Ginobili.

Laugh test be damned! Turkoglu did have good plus-minus numbers but
honestly.....

Best Wishes,
Stuart

If this article is suggesting what I think it's suggesting, forget
about the laugh test, this should be the "LMAO" test.

Coach McCormick wrote:
> Hi: Is there someplace on the web to find NBA shooting stats broken
> into home vs away and into things like at the end of a long road trip
> or on abck 2 back nights? Or, do I have to search through each team's
> web site and sortable stats?
>
> Any help would be appreciated. Alternatively, if anyone has any
> studies on the same context, that would be equally as helpful.
>

You can download csv files containing game by game players stats here:
http://m.1asphost.com/bxscores/

They contain all the info necessary to perform home/away analysis.
--

ed
"I ain't the world's best writer, ain't the world's best speller
But when I believe in something I'm the loudest yeller."
     - Woody Guthrie

My favorite part is the implication that Tim Duncan is no better
than the third best player on the team.

Ben

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "McKibbin, Stuart"
<smckibbi@c...> wrote:
> For what its worth I thought I'd pass along an article found
online in the
> Orlando Sentinal.
>
> http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-
sptmagic21102104o
> ct21,1,4749763.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines
>
> It's a puff piece on Turkoglu but in it there is a list of Winston
Sagarin's
> Top 5 ballplayers (no one else listed). W-S sees it:  1. Turkoglu
2. Vince
> Carter. 3. Garnett. 4. Brad Miller. 5. Manu Ginobili.
>
> Laugh test be damned! Turkoglu did have good plus-minus numbers but
> honestly.....
>
> Best Wishes,
> Stuart

An interesting paper at
http://dlibrary.acu.edu.au/staffhome/stburke/su00p4.htm looks at the causes
of home team advantage across many sports.

*    *    *

Home Advantage: The Causes Of It’s Existence!
By Stephen Chipps & Dr. Stephen Burke

ABSTRACT

Belief in the advantage of playing an athletic event at home has been
popular for many years and coaches have devised strategies accordingly. The
first research confirming the existence of home advantage was first
published 23 years ago and a review of the published literature is presented
in this report. It addresses the issues of home advantage, home disadvantage
and the factors responsible for their existence. Since the original
publication the existence of home advantage has been demonstrated across a
wide variety of sports and across different levels of standard. The reasons
for the existence of such a home advantage seems to lie largely with the
local crowd support, but how this effect occurs is still not completely
understood. However in championship finals home advantage seems to be
reduced.

[From the Conclusion]:

It can be concluded that the effects of rule factors, travel factors and
familiarity and learning factors play a minimal role in contributing to the
home advantage. On the other hand there are conflicting results concerning
the involvement of crowd factors in the creation of home advantage. The
evidence from studies on crowd factors indicates that this is likely to be
the likely dominant cause of home advantage in view of the convincing
evidence that home advantage increases with increasing crowd size until the
crowd has reached a critical size. The crowd may affect the home advantage
either by providing a psychological lift to raise the home competitor’s
performance relative to the away competitors or by influencing the officials
to favour the home team, as subjective decisions favour the home team. It is
also possible that competitors adjust psychologically in different ways when
playing at home than when playing away which may affect their performance.

--
ed

Well, obviously Turkoglu and Ginobili are carrying Duncan. Just
imagine how good the Spurs would be if Duncan would just start pulling
his own weight.

--- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "wimpds" <wimpds@y...> wrote:
>
> My favorite part is the implication that Tim Duncan is no better
> than the third best player on the team.
>
> Ben
>
> --- In APBR_analysis@yahoogroups.com, "McKibbin, Stuart"
> <smckibbi@c...> wrote:
> > For what its worth I thought I'd pass along an article found
> online in the
> > Orlando Sentinal.
> >
> > http://www.orlandosentinel.com/sports/basketball/magic/orl-
> sptmagic21102104o
> > ct21,1,4749763.story?coll=orl-sports-headlines
> >
> > It's a puff piece on Turkoglu but in it there is a list of Winston
> Sagarin's
> > Top 5 ballplayers (no one else listed). W-S sees it:  1. Turkoglu
> 2. Vince
> > Carter. 3. Garnett. 4. Brad Miller. 5. Manu Ginobili.
> >
> > Laugh test be damned! Turkoglu did have good plus-minus numbers but
> > honestly.....
> >
> > Best Wishes,
> > Stuart