From: Yvianne <yvianne@...>
Subject: Re: [AEyouthpolicy] 2 questions
To: AEyouthpolicy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Friday, October 17, 2008, 9:36 AM

Thank you for directing me to the proposed policies in a format my computer could read. 

 

So far as the number of authorized div 3 fighters... it's more than I thought there were. I've rarely seen more than a handful participating at any one event.

 

Yvianne

From: Dorinda.E.Courtine-White@... <Dorinda.E.Courtine-White@...>
Subject: RE: [AEyouthpolicy] Additional provision for parents
To: AEyouthpolicy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 4:24 PM

One doesn't receive the paperwork - one has to ask for it. And I believe
they did want to do local officers *first* to reduce the flood of checks at
the very beginning. Has he asked more recently if he could get a check
done? I suspect he can now. Please have him try again! More marshals are
a good thing.

Dorinda







Lady Giovanna
DaNapoli
<greyraven315@ yah To
oo.com> AEyouthpolicy@ yahoogroups. com
Sent by: cc
AEyouthpolicy@ yah
oogroups.com Subject
RE: [AEyouthpolicy] Additional
provision for parents
10/15/2008 02:16
PM


Please respond to
AEyouthpolicy@ yah
oogroups.com







M'Lord,



It was stated several times, in emails, to the AE discussion list, from
December 23 through January 31st. At the time my husband was a youth
marshal at large, and never received and paperwork, from Kingdom, about
the backround checks being done.

It was stated in said emails that only elected officers of children
activies will be given the chance to have the checks done. This is why my
husband, Primo, is no longer a youth marshal. Something he does miss, and
is really needed in our area of EndlessHills.

Lady Giovanna

--- On Wed, 10/15/08, Sir Tristen Sexwulf <Tristen@tribalbelly dance.net>
wrote:
From: Sir Tristen Sexwulf <Tristen@tribalbelly dance.net>
Subject: RE: [AEyouthpolicy] Additional provision for parents
To: AEyouthpolicy@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 10:57 AM



The SCA was asked to research the concept of ages 16+ rattan
activity with adults being considered child abuse by the opponent
and/or child neglect by the parent. SCA legal was asked
specifically to research all the states of the middle kingdom and
AEthelmearc.


SCA legal stated that they can find no legal reason why it should
not be permitted within the States of these Kingdoms.


It is, in fact, permitted in every kingdom of the SCA except
AEthelmearc and the East.





The risk of abuse/neglect litigation is further reduced by adding
the requirement that the person striking the youth must be a
“Warranted Youth Marshal or the parent”, combined with “they must be
authorized in heavy weapons combat” adds extra layers of protection
by showing that the person has been vetted youth policies and
formally trained in heavy weapon combat.





Tristen Sexwulf
Earl Marshal of Æthelmearc
“Quicumque est necesse pro malum praevaleo est pro bonus men efficio
nihil.”





From: AEyouthpolicy@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AEyouthpoli
cy@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of OTRobin@aol. com
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:14 AM
To: AEyouthpolicy@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [AEyouthpolicy] Additional provision for parents





At large YM are also covered by the Society and our Kingdom for
background checks.


There are at least 4 I know of in my immediate area who has gone
thru the process. I am one.





Speaking of at large marshals, there are at least 4 more people in
my area who wish to get their YM warrants now. Yes they are heavy
fighters, who wish to participate in the open rather then in
unofficial settings with the minors.





I would like to see training defined.more clearly. We have been
told here that under NO circumstances is any adult allowed to strike
(even lightly) a youth fighter during a practice. Demonstration of
technique has had to be done with another adult or in slow motion
with the youth fighter in our area. Reasoning stated was striking
the minor can be considered child abuse and not all adults can
control their calibration. With the youth fighter in appropriate
armor, I have never been able to process that philosophy so it made
sense. Yes, we have been questioned by the youth fighters about it
and responding that it is the rule and we must abide by it has been
the only recourse.





Would it be possible to revisit the rule stating that a YM is not
able to actively marshal if they bring a minor not their own with
all proper paperwork? I have not been able to see how being
responsible for a child not your own differs from one what is your
own.


if having a an extra minor or two there improves the practice, I am,
all for that. I have never felt like a babysitter during this
activity and personally am glad to have increased numbers for an
activity that teaches chivalry, control, compassion, responsibility
and socialization.


Nivah








n a message dated 10/15/2008 8:44:27 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
greyraven315@ yahoo.com writes:





M'Lord,





Does the Adult of said 16+, have to be warranted as a Youth Marshal? Since
the current policy has only elected Ofiicers eligible for the current
backround check policy.





I think it would be a great idea, for a revision, if an Adult wants to be
a Youth Marshal at Large, they should paid for the backround check, and
then the clearance lasts as per the state where the person currently
resides, ei: Pennsylvania' s Child Clearance is good for 3 years, and only
costs around $10.00 per person, and you get an actual certificate with
expiration date.





I know that every state is different, how ever, current policy does not
allow for adults teaching youths under the age of 18 years old, without
having a clearance to do so.





So, the policy on who is ok to get a clearance for youth activities, needs
to be revised, and if that person is not an elected offcer, then they
should have to pay out of pocket, for themselves, to be able to teach
rattan to youths 16+ in age.





Just a suggestion. I know that as example, my husband, an auth'd heavy
fighter for over 20 years, would love to be a youth rattan teacher, but
because he does not have time for the elected office duties, he cannot get
a clearance to do so.





As Always,





Lady Giovanna Antonia da Napoli

--- On Wed, 10/15/08, Sir Tristen Sexwulf <Tristen@tribalbell y dance.net>
wrote:


From: Sir Tristen Sexwulf <Tristen@tribalbell y dance.net>
Subject: [AEyouthpolicy] Additional provision for parents
To: AEyouthpolicy@ yahoogroups. com
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:16 AM


I would like to enter the following change to the proposed youth
policy as it only seems reasonable.


7. If authorized in heavy weapons, the parents of a youth
age’s 16+ may engage that youth in rattan combat under the same
conditions as a warranted adult youth marshal.


Sound reasonable?





Tristen Sexwulf
Earl Marshal of Æthelmearc
“Quicumque est necesse pro malum praevaleo est pro bonus men efficio
nihil.”










BUY Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull on DVD today!









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From: Sir Tristen Sexwulf <Tristen@...>
Subject: RE: [AEyouthpolicy] Additional provision for parents
To: AEyouthpolicy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 10:57 AM

The SCA was asked to research the concept of ages 16+ rattan activity with adults being considered child abuse by the opponent and/or child neglect by the parent.  SCA legal was asked specifically to research all the states of the middle kingdom and AEthelmearc.

SCA legal stated that they can find no legal reason why it should not be permitted within the States of these Kingdoms. 

It is, in fact, permitted in every kingdom of the SCA except AEthelmearc and the East.

 

The risk of abuse/neglect litigation is further reduced by adding the requirement that the person striking the youth must be a “Warranted Youth Marshal or the parent”, combined with “they must be authorized in heavy weapons combat” adds extra layers of protection by showing that the person has been vetted youth policies and formally trained in heavy weapon combat.

 

Tristen Sexwulf
Earl Marshal of Æthelmearc
“Quicumque est necesse pro malum praevaleo est pro bonus men efficio nihil.”

 

From: AEyouthpolicy@ yahoogroups. com [mailto:AEyouthpoli cy@yahoogroups. com] On Behalf Of OTRobin@aol. com
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2008 10:14 AM
To: AEyouthpolicy@ yahoogroups. com
Subject: Re: [AEyouthpolicy] Additional provision for parents

 

At large YM are also covered by the Society and our Kingdom for background checks.

There are at least 4 I know of in my immediate area who has gone thru the process. I am one.

 

Speaking of at large marshals, there are at least 4 more people in my area who wish to get their YM warrants now. Yes they are heavy fighters, who wish to participate in the open rather then in unofficial settings with the minors.

 

 I would like to see training defined.more clearly.  We have been told here that under NO circumstances is any adult allowed to strike (even lightly) a youth fighter during a practice.  Demonstration of technique has had to be done with another adult or in slow motion with the youth fighter in our area. Reasoning stated was striking the minor can be considered child abuse and not all adults can control their calibration. With the youth fighter in appropriate armor, I have never been able to process that philosophy so it made sense. Yes, we have been questioned by the youth fighters about it and responding that it is the rule and we must abide by it has been the only recourse.  

 

Would it be possible to revisit the rule stating that a YM is not able to actively marshal if they bring a minor not their own with all proper paperwork?   I  have not been able to see how being responsible for a child not your own differs from one what is your own.

if having a an extra minor or two there improves the practice, I am, all for that. I have never felt like a babysitter during this activity and personally am glad to have increased numbers for an activity that teaches chivalry, control, compassion, responsibility and socialization.

Nivah  

  

 

n a message dated 10/15/2008 8:44:27 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time, greyraven315@ yahoo.com writes:

M'Lord,   Does the Adult of said 16+, have to be warranted as a Youth Marshal? Since the current policy has only elected Ofiicers eligible for the current backround check policy.   I think it would be a great idea, for a revision, if an Adult wants to be a Youth Marshal at Large, they should paid for the backround check, and then the clearance lasts as per the state where the person currently resides, ei: Pennsylvania' s Child Clearance is good for 3 years, and only costs around $10.00 per person, and you get an actual certificate with expiration date.   I know that every state is different, how ever, current policy does not allow for adults teaching youths under the age of 18 years old, without having a clearance to do so.   So, the policy on who is ok to get a clearance for youth activities, needs to be revised, and if that person is not an elected offcer, then they should have to pay out of pocket, for themselves, to be able to teach rattan to youths 16+ in age.   Just a suggestion. I know that as example, my husband, an auth'd heavy fighter for over 20 years, would love to be a youth rattan teacher, but because he does not have time for the elected office duties, he cannot get a clearance to do so.   As Always,   Lady Giovanna Antonia da Napoli --- On Wed, 10/15/08, Sir Tristen Sexwulf <Tristen@tribalbelly dance.net> wrote: From: Sir Tristen Sexwulf <Tristen@tribalbelly dance.net> Subject: [AEyouthpolicy] Additional provision for parents To: AEyouthpolicy@ yahoogroups. com Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:16 AM I would like to enter the following change to the proposed youth policy as it only seems reasonable. 7.        If authorized in heavy weapons, the parents of a youth age’s 16+ may engage that youth in rattan combat under the same conditions as a warranted adult youth marshal. Sound reasonable?   Tristen Sexwulf Earl Marshal of Æthelmearc “Quicumque est necesse pro malum praevaleo est pro bonus men efficio nihil.”

 

---

BUY Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull on DVD today!

From: Dorinda.E.Courtine-White@... <Dorinda.E.Courtine-White@...>
Subject: Re: [AEyouthpolicy] Looking for feedback and youth training guidance
To: AEyouthpolicy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 11:57 AM

I think the background check confusion is because Countess Caryl asked that
we *first* put in the checks with officers so as to not overwhelm the
system. I believe that now that the initial round of checks is done, you
can contact her and request one. I may be wrong on this, but I think that
is why some people think they aren't allowed to have one.

Dorinda

From: Sir Tristen Sexwulf <Tristen@...>
Subject: [AEyouthpolicy] Additional provision for parents
To: AEyouthpolicy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 8:16 AM

I would like to enter the following change to the proposed youth policy as it only seems reasonable.

7.        If authorized in heavy weapons, the parents of a youth age’s 16+ may engage that youth in rattan combat under the same conditions as a warranted adult youth marshal.

Sound reasonable?

 

Tristen Sexwulf
Earl Marshal of Æthelmearc
“Quicumque est necesse pro malum praevaleo est pro bonus men efficio nihil.”

From: Michael "Thorgard" DeHaan <thorgard12@...>
Subject: [AEyouthpolicy] My two cents
To: AEyouthpolicy@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, October 15, 2008, 2:05 AM

Greetings to All   We had a very similar discussion regarding this a couple of years ago.  At the time the discussion started I was against youth rattan entirely.  My reasoning was that most of the youth tourneys I had seen at events were little more than "Wack a Mole" and most of the youth practices I attended were the same.  There was little or no instruction as to techniques and my suggestion to introducing these techniques was met with alot of resistance.  The reasoning was that the kids should just have fun and not feel pressure and competition.  I was afraid that without instruction there would be a lot of wrist injuries as Div 3 fightesr attempted advanced techniques that they saw performed in the Heavy lists that had too much torque when done improperly.   After exploring the situation a little more my opinion changed to what is being discussed now.  Namely: Should we let Div. 3 fighters move back and forth between rattan and boffer.  Originally, my opinion was "no" for the same calibration concerns being discussed here.  However, in looking back over my son's career in youth combat, which officially ended Monday when he turned 18, I now believe that we should let Div. 3 fighters fight both rattan AND boffer:   My reasoning for this change of opinion is both simple and pragmatic and is as follows:   Div. 3 fighters are ALREADY making the switch between rattan and boffer.  In fact, they are doing it so well that most people do not even realize it.  The fact is there are a ton of fathers who are letting their sons suit up and fight rattan unofficially in backyards all over this Kingdom.  We cannot stop this, it is unofficial and outside SCA sanctioning.  These Div. 3 fighters practice with their parents, they practice with friends of their parents who are heavy fighters, and I have even seen them practice with each other.   These same young fighters then put down the rattan and go to youth combat practice and compete in youth combat tourneys, and yet they are not counseled for calibration issues any more than the other fighters who (to my knowledge) are fighting only boffer.   As it is already happening anyway, it only makes sense to allow all Div. 3 fighters to have the option of fighting both rattan and boffer.  Doing so enables us as marshals to take the activity out of the backyards and bring it into youth practice where we can regulate it, and ensure that proper safe practices are taught, learned, and followed.   If we do not allow Div. 3 fighters to fight both rattan and boffer, then rattan fighters will be unable to fight and compete at Pennsic.  Pennsic is as big a deal for our youth as it is for most of us.  To tell a youth fighters that he must stand on the sidelines and watch rather then compete merely because he also fights with rattan would kill his interest in fighting youth combat.  This is especially true when they talk to a friend in another kingdom and find out that he is allowed to fight both.   Allowing Div. 3 to fight both provides a stepping stone that gives them a bridge to heavy combat and keeps their interest alive in both fighting and the SCA.  This is more important than you think.  Sixteen and seventeen year olds especially begin to lose interest in boffers as their competitive drives mature.  Most of them think it stupid that they can play high school competitive football with all its associated risks, yet we tell them they are not mature enough to fight with anything other than a “giant dorky padded Q-tip.” (my son’s term).  The fact is, when we are talking ages sixteen and above, most of these boys are looking for something more challenging and more competitive.  Allowing them to fight both rattan and boffer lets them progress at their own speed and their own comfort level, without anyone standing on the sideline who does not want to.  It also keeps their interest in both SCA combat and the SCA in general alive.  Consider this example.  My own son (Magnus) sustained a severe injury to his thumb in basketball shortly after entering Div. 3.  The break was severe enough to affect his grip and to avoid surgery he was prohibited from fighting youth combat for over a year.  After the injury, the first time Magnus picked up a boffer was 15 minutes before entering a Div. 3 youth tournament at an event.  He rolled through the division undefeated, easily besting the second place competitor.  He was almost 17 at the time and never picked up a boffer again.  He had no interest in practicing (except with rattan), had no interest in entering tourneys, and no interest in going to events which were now boring because youth combat was not a challenge and most events have little else for youth to do.  He told me he was going to sit out his seventeenth year, and if he was still interested, would get back involved when he was 18 and could fight heavy.   He was not even really thrilled about Pennsic this year.  Mostly he wanted to go so he could see some friends he only sees there.  His interest finally re-ignited at Pennsic when he realized he could start purchasing a helm and other items for his heavy kit.   Folks with all due respect, we need to wake up and realize that fighting both rattan and boffer is happening officially in other kingdoms, and is happening unofficially here a lot more often then we would like to admit.   MY OPINION:    I realize that opinions are like morning breath.  Everybody has a different one, and it is usually bad.  So take this for what it is worth.   I think we should allow all Div. 3 fighters who wish to fight rattan to do so.  I think that those who choose to fight rattan should be given instruction by youth marshals in both form, and technique so that they can safely and properly engage in this activity.  I think that those choosing to fight rattan should be able to move back and forth between rattan and boffer at will.  Given that it is happening elsewhere officially, and is happening here unofficially, I think that we as Aethelmearc youth marshals need to take the situation in hand and manage it rather than wring our hands about safety and turn a blind eye to an already existent practice.   Sincerely,   Thorgard inn Sterki

Greetings to All

We had a very similar discussion regarding this a couple of years ago.  At the time the discussion started I was against youth rattan entirely.  My reasoning was that most of the youth tourneys I had seen at events were little more than "Wack a Mole" and most of the youth practices I attended were the same.  There was little or no instruction as to techniques and my suggestion to introducing these techniques was met with alot of resistance.  The reasoning was that the kids should just have fun and not feel pressure and competition.  I was afraid that without instruction there would be a lot of wrist injuries as Div 3 fightesr attempted advanced techniques that they saw performed in the Heavy lists that had too much torque when done improperly.

After exploring the situation a little more my opinion changed to what is being discussed now.  Namely: Should we let Div. 3 fighters move back and forth between rattan and boffer.  Originally, my opinion was "no" for the same calibration concerns being discussed here.  However, in looking back over my son's career in youth combat, which officially ended Monday when he turned 18, I now believe that we should let Div. 3 fighters fight both rattan AND boffer:

My reasoning for this change of opinion is both simple and pragmatic and is as follows:

1. Div. 3 fighters are ALREADY making the switch between rattan and boffer.  In fact, they are doing it so well that most people do not even realize it.  The fact is there are a ton of fathers who are letting their sons suit up and fight rattan unofficially in backyards all over this Kingdom.  We cannot stop this, it is unofficial and outside SCA sanctioning.  These Div. 3 fighters practice with their parents, they practice with friends of their parents who are heavy fighters, and I have even seen them practice with each other.

These same young fighters then put down the rattan and go to youth combat practice and compete in youth combat tourneys, and yet they are not counseled for calibration issues any more than the other fighters who (to my knowledge) are fighting only boffer.

As it is already happening anyway, it only makes sense to allow all Div. 3 fighters to have the option of fighting both rattan and boffer.  Doing so enables us as marshals to take the activity out of the backyards and bring it into youth practice where we can regulate it, and ensure that proper safe practices are taught, learned, and followed.

2. If we do not allow Div. 3 fighters to fight both rattan and boffer, then rattan fighters will be unable to fight and compete at Pennsic.  Pennsic is as big a deal for our youth as it is for most of us.  To tell a youth fighters that he must stand on the sidelines and watch rather then compete merely because he also fights with rattan would kill his interest in fighting youth combat.  This is especially true when they talk to a friend in another kingdom and find out that he is allowed to fight both.

3. Allowing Div. 3 to fight both provides a stepping stone that gives them a bridge to heavy combat and keeps their interest alive in both fighting and the SCA.  This is more important than you think.  Sixteen and seventeen year olds especially begin to lose interest in boffers as their competitive drives mature.  Most of them think it stupid that they can play high school competitive football with all its associated risks, yet we tell them they are not mature enough to fight with anything other than a “giant dorky padded Q-tip.” (my son’s term).  The fact is, when we are talking ages sixteen and above, most of these boys are looking for something more challenging and more competitive.  Allowing them to fight both rattan and boffer lets them progress at their own speed and their own comfort level, without anyone standing on the sideline who does not want to.  It also keeps their interest in both SCA combat and the SCA in general alive.  Consider this example.  My own son (Magnus) sustained a severe injury to his thumb in basketball shortly after entering Div. 3.  The break was severe enough to affect his grip and to avoid surgery he was prohibited from fighting youth combat for over a year.  After the injury, the first time Magnus picked up a boffer was 15 minutes before entering a Div. 3 youth tournament at an event.  He rolled through the division undefeated, easily besting the second place competitor.  He was almost 17 at the time and never picked up a boffer again.  He had no interest in practicing (except with rattan), had no interest in entering tourneys, and no interest in going to events which were now boring because youth combat was not a challenge and most events have little else for youth to do.  He told me he was going to sit out his seventeenth year, and if he was still interested, would get back involved when he was 18 and could fight heavy.   He was not even really thrilled about Pennsic this year.  Mostly he wanted to go so he could see some friends he only sees there.  His interest finally re-ignited at Pennsic when he realized he could start purchasing a helm and other items for his heavy kit.

Folks with all due respect, we need to wake up and realize that fighting both rattan and boffer is happening officially in other kingdoms, and is happening unofficially here a lot more often then we would like to admit.

MY OPINION: 

I realize that opinions are like morning breath.  Everybody has a different one, and it is usually bad.  So take this for what it is worth.

I think we should allow all Div. 3 fighters who wish to fight rattan to do so.  I think that those who choose to fight rattan should be given instruction by youth marshals in both form, and technique so that they can safely and properly engage in this activity.  I think that those choosing to fight rattan should be able to move back and forth between rattan and boffer at will.  Given that it is happening elsewhere officially, and is happening here unofficially, I think that we as Aethelmearc youth marshals need to take the situation in hand and manage it rather than wring our hands about safety and turn a blind eye to an already existent practice.

Sincerely,

Thorgard inn Sterki