nivah,
one thing that needs to be established from the start is that we cannot make
rules or standards based on what people are doing OUTSIDE of the SCA venues.
First it is simply none of our business and secondly we are trying to
provide activities that fall within the established SCA doctrines and
existing policies. if people want to have their training at home under the
eyes of their parents, well.. i simply don't care.

that being said...part of the reason to start small and have things happen
at event only for a while is as i mentioned in my letter "This will give us
an opportunity to see how many 16-17's are interested
as well as establishing the new style of marshaling before the practice is
wide spread. it was discussed that this might be a more practical way to
approach the new program to establish conventions in the training rather
than 125 local groups individually saying "woohoo! lets fight"

naturally we hope participation will grow and that this becomes a viable
training program. but at this exact point in time i don't actually know that
ANYONE will participate. i have lots of "i know a guy..." stories and "well,
i've been contacted by several people..." stories but the simple fact
remains that i have yet to hear a 16 or 17 year old say "oh yes please can
we do this" or even "this is a stupid idea, just let us fight adult at 16
like other kingdoms." And the few youth fighters who have spoken on the
project DON'T want to participate. it seems that the only people who think
this is a cool idea are marshals and maybe some parents.

as for the muscle memory part. it has little...maybe nothing to do with the
size shape or weight of the armor and weapons. it has to do with the way the
body is used to throw a shot. In youth combat everything is sent straight
from the shoulder. we've all seen it the most popular shot in any of the 3
divisions is the forward punch shot. that is not to say that some, maybe
most of the kids know how to throw a real shot, but they don't because it
doesn't work as well in PVC. BUT when you train a person to throw the shot
correctly, from the hip across the back and out through the end of the arm
you add power and speed that with PVC we have seen break bones. '

can the kids learn to go back an forth between the forms like they do with
heavy to light rapier? of course they can. when 30-35 division 3's are at
pennsic in 100 degree heat and tempers are rising will they always remember
to throw down to PVC standards..no, not always. and its not just youth, the
same happens in rattan and rapier when tempers and/or adrenalin begin to
rise.

i'm glad that you will be working on some ideas for 3 ravens. the more
people that become involved with the young people of the kingdom the better.
let me see your outlines when they are ready. i hope to hear back from the
autocrat soon.

i hope this answers some of you questions
jenna

Carole Goranson (THL Jenna MacPherson of Lion's Tower)
Amherst, NY (Barony of the Rhydderich Hael, Æthelmearc)

"The problems of the world can't be solved in meters." - Arlo Guthrie





>From: OTRobin@...
>Reply-To: AEyouthpolicy@yahoogroups.com
>To: AEyouthpolicy@...
>Subject: Re: [AEyouthpolicy] Policy Meeting Notes (gold Chain)
>Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2008 10:27:43 EST
>
>Jenna,
>
>This looks good except one area confuses me.
>If the only rattan experience the older kids who want to have will be at
>events, what happens the rest of the time when they are no longer allowed
>to go
>to a practice and fight boffer? It sounds like this will eliminate 16+
>rattan fighters from practicing under the SCA rules once they switch, for
>now,
>and be encouraging more off the radar practicing.
>As time passes and more events are held that will include the 16+
>component,
>I hope participation spreads quickly.
>My other area of confusion is that many of the older kids already fighting
>rattan outside of SCA sanctions activities have been able to go back to
>boffer
>with little or no difficulty. If level 3 boffer weapons are made to mimic
>rattan in bulk, weight and balance, the idea that anything more than a
>minimum
>or zero difference in calibration and muscle memory does not fit. Using my
>training in activity analysis, practicing is what will build muscle and
>motion
>memory. Anyone who has ever had an injury that requires physical or
>occupational therapy has learned that you can't fake it or fool the
>therapist when
>you have not done the exercises for your home program. The rhythm and fluid
>motion is not present nor observed when you do not practice. This is very
>similar to the notion that putting on armor without any stretching or
>minimal
>muscle warming up then going full speed, makes you invincible to injury.
>
>I agree with erring on the side of caution. It is pretty easy to pick out
>the fighters who practice regularly and am always very glad to see more and
>heavier armor than SCA minimums require, for any person.
>
>I would suggest two topics for classes at C3R. One for adults fighters who
>wish to be included in the training process of 16+ rattan. Second, would be
>for
> all marshals who wish to participate in the 16+ rattan program to clearly
>outline policy, learn some approved methods to include (standardization)
>and
>gather ideas to consider that would include teaching the 16+ rattan how to
>handle some typical conflicts - like not taking shots.
>I will gladly make an outline to post for purposes of fine tuning with
>suggestions, if anyone is interested.
>
>Nivah
>
>
>
>In a message dated 11/14/2008 7:45:51 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time,
>JennaMacPherson@... writes:
>
>Greetings all,
>sorry for the delay, but finally here are the notes from the youth policy
>meeting at gold chain event. i was happy to see some new faces and meet
>some
>new people and we were honoured by the presence of Their Royal Highnesses
>and Sir Tristan, the Earl Marshal. I think with the support we have been
>getting throughout the kingdom AEthelmearc will have one of the finest
>youth
>programs in no time at all.
>Copies of these notes will alos be posted to the Youth Combat website.
>
>1. 16+ rattan to be implemented at events only to begin with, rather than
>at
>every local practice.
>
>This will give us an opportunity to see how many 16-17's are interested
>as well as establishing the new style of marshaling before the practice in
>wide spread. it was discussed that this might be a more practical way to
>approach the new program to establish conventions in the training rather
>than 125 local groups individually saying "woohoo! lets fight"
>
>2. It was agreed that we understand that some of the youth are being
>trained
>"off the SCA radar" by their parents or adult friends. when the 16+
>program
>is underway we would like it to be understood that the people training in
>rattan are honour bound not to go back to the local groups and practice
>with
>the PVC.
>
>It was brought up that not only is the calibration different between
>the forms but that also the muscle motion and memory are very different
>and
>that it would be unwise to mix the forms. we have had some first hand
>reports of young people who have face some serious injuries by doing so.
>that is not to say that some young people are able to do it quite well,
>but
>to begin with we choose to err on the side of caution.
>
>3. It was discussed that training the 16+ group would have to be a
>cooperative effort between youth warranted marshals and adult heavy
>warranted marshals. Also that we will need to include a roster of rattan
>fighters in each region that are approved to train/spar with the young
>people that dont technically need to be warranted in either venue or be
>required to have the background check.
>
>Strangely, at this point sir aengus turned to speak to the gentle to his
>left and while he was looking the other way his hand slowly raised itself
>up
>into the air and thus he volunteered to be in charge of this section of
>the
>program :0)
>
>4. a second meeting has been scheduled for the storming the castle even
>tin
>rhydderich hael on saturday 11/15.
>
>5. i have contacted the autocrat of college of 3 ravens event to request a
>full day track of classes and practice sessions for the youth martial
>academy. this will be our first chance to have an actual training session
>for the 16+ with rattan. so if anyone has ideas for classes in boffer or
>youth rapier please start formulating it into a class and let me know what
>you're thinking. i will post details from the autocrat when i have them.
>
>6. a topic that was discussed for the youth combat program as a whole is
>the
>
>significance of division 2 fighters. it has often been noted that in
>division 1 the kids are just joyful and happy to be swinging a stick with
>permission! in division 3 there is much talk of calibration and
>manners...one is too high the other too low. The way i see it the obvious
>time for "intervention" is division 2. the kids here still have the joy
>but
>are becoming bigger and stronger and yes virginia, just a little more
>willful. another significant delema in division 2 is that this is the age
>for growth spurts. the height/weight range between the kids is extremely
>spread out in this group. On the positive side though they are also the
>most
>adaptable to fighting up to 3 or fighting down to 1. it is also where most
>kids decide why they are in the program and if they want to stay in and go
>on to adult heavy.
>
>So basically we should begin some new discussion on how to make the
>most of our division 2. please feel free to post you ideas, concerns,
>questions, comments, observations.
>
>finally thank to all who have participated in this process and all the
>autocrats who have made time and space for us. i hope to see many of you
>at
>storming the castle.
>
>thank you for your support :0)
>
>i do remain
>jenna
>
>
>
>Carole Goranson (THL Jenna MacPherson of Lion's Tower)
>Amherst, NY (Barony of the Rhydderich Hael, Æthelmearc)
>
>"The problems of the world can't be solved in meters." - Arlo Guthrie
>
>
>
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