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If you read what I wrote more carefully, I said an issue we had at our practices was not being able to marshal when you were the responsible person for a minor not your own.
I do not think I know anyone who would look after any child less closely or more closely because they are not their own children. In many other situations and in well established national organizations we become temporarily responsible for minors not our own, usually as leaders. Could you please explain what you feel the added responsibility would be and how it further adds to being the legally responsible person for a minor not your own and an active youth marshal?
The two deep rule that has been used by many other organizations and now mandated in the SCA should take care of the supervision portion. In our area the older fighters have at least one parent present in the general area, typically because they are a heavy fighter. Quite possibly the conflict has been unique to our area and our youth fighters friends wanting to attend a practice.
Nivah
In a message dated 10/18/2008 11:16:51 A.M. US Eastern Standard Time, yvianne@... writes:

Did I miss something?Nivah wrote about marshals now being able to take on the added responsibility of being the designated adult responsible for youths (not their own children) at practices.To change this part of the policy and allow marshals to take on additional responsibilities blurs the line between marshal and legally responsible adult. Especially now when we are planning full force combat between adults and youth that will require even closer supervision, it just seems irresponsible.Are we still going to require parents to be present at the list when their minor children engage in combat with adults? This was placed into policy originally to allow for training in areas that had attendance issues at practices and also provide an extra layer of protection for all involved ... marshal, adult engaging in combat with a minor, parent and participant.Also remember that these rules apply to all age groups, not just the proposed division 4. The rules may seem a bit overbearing for older teens, but to remove them may put younger participants at increased risk.Yvianne----- Original Message -----From: OTRobin@aol.com Sent: Friday, October 17, 2008 4:27 PMSubject: Re: [AEyouthpolicy] Re: 2 questionsI believe that is the purpose of the proposed changes to the Div 3, to provide training and it is optional. The 16 and 17 year olds who want to learn rattan will NOT be fighting in the adult list. I have always felt it was irresponsible to send anyone to the adult list without proper training. Over time I have observed that is what the practices are for and also the authorizations. If the fighter can not demonstrate adequate safety for himself and his opponent, he fails.I am very glad to see this issue get addressed in our Kingdom and thank those who are making this a possibility. We live 30 miles south of a city, getting minors to participate was not our problem. The rules for not being able to actively marshal when you have a minor not your own "signed" over to you for the practice was a huge issue. And we have 3 at large youth marshals who regularly attended practices.My step son is now 21 so for our family this is no longer a personal issue. For the other two at large marshals in my area this still applies. One marshal has a son who aged out and is over 18 but one still is just shy of 17. The other marshal's son has moved on to fencing in a modern practice. The boys are friends but got very tired of hitting each other after 4+ years. Of these 4 boys, 2 have been Kingdom Youth Champions at least once, 3 have been Baronial Youth Champions and all have won a wide variety of tournaments in local events and at Pennsic..Our kids have asked to fight rattan for a very long time. Rather than continue to "lose" some of these youth fighters to the "underground", allowing them to officially receive training as they are approaching the adult list with increased standards for armor and other carefully spelled out criteria, in my opinion is the most responsible way to transition them. To borrow the driver's permit idea, this would be the equivalent to driver's education. Not all kids attend, some do. As far as being able to calibrate and show control, all of our area youth fighters have worked with the younger kids many times and made us very proud of how they mentored the younger fighters. While not spelled out as a requirement in the Youth fighter rules, as parents and marshals, we insisted our kids perform service projects as part of the character building chivalry portion of the SCA.Somewhere in these discussions, someone mentioned different shots and torque increasing shots. At one practice someone thought teaching the butt wrap shot would be fun. What I wanted to share was that as a mom and marshal I was very much less than thrilled with this idea of a fun shot and when asking about the reasoning, the response was it is a legal shot. In my mind that pretty much goes along with rhino hiding.....When I see someone's head snap back and helmet ring, it makes me wonder how they did not feel the shot. Since I am not in that helmet, it is not for me to judge. Chivalry must prevail.Nivah
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