New point standings have been posted at
    http://www.doublejoy.com/erol/Points/default.asp

While the note above says "New", the only changes that will occur
in the standings online will come from corrections sent in by riders.

The online standings will not change much over the next two months
until after the yearbook information for 2006 is finalized.

Once that's done - the 2007 standings will start to appear online
about March.  Nothing will be in EN before then either.

Mike

Hi Courtney,

Thanks for sending your letter.  To clear up any confusion or
misunderstanding on the BLM Horses, I have a few specific questions:

1)  I have heard you will be choosing the BLM horses from a holding
center - which holding center and what herd or area will these horses
be coming from, and on what date will the selection of specific
horses begin?

2) What will be the minimum and maximum age of the BLM horses and
will they be mares, geldings, and/or stallions?

3)  Many of us have been led to believe the BLM horses will be
unbroke when you begin the selection process; is this true and, if
so, who will be breaking them out, and when and how long will it take
to get the selected horses to a point where actual conditioning can
start?

4)  Once the horses are at a point where they can be ridden safely,
who will be conditioning the horses?  Will the conditioners be
experienced endurance riders or paid riders who are under the
direction of an experienced endurance rider?  Some of us have been
told the horses will be stabled at the Promoter's facility and you
will be directing the conditioning program from your home in England,
is this correct?  If so, how can you accurately gauge the condition
for this type of event (mental and physical) of each horse
without "hands on" oversight?

As a long time multi day ride manager, and a member of a family that
has been competing in multi day rides since the mid-late 1980's, my
experience has found that it takes quite some time to get a horse
ready to successfully compete/complete multi day rides.  Most of us
have seen relatively inexperienced horses do relatively well on one-
day rides, but it is not something we in AERC advocate or believe
should be a common occurrence. However, in multi day rides the
cumulative effect of traveling 50+/- miles per day, or even every
other day, can take its toll on the best and most experienced
endurance horses.  Drinking and remaining hydrated over several days,
eating, drinking, and resting while in transit, allowing for blankets
and coolers at vet checks, taking electrolytes at vet checks and on
the trail, taking all the strange things that can occur on the trail
in stride, leg wraps and blankets at the end of the day.....and the
myriad of other "learned experiences" that are part of successfully
competing against the trail take time.  Obviously, you think after
6+/- months these horses will be both physically and mentally
prepared to do something they will have no actual experience doing -
I am speaking of multi day ride experience, not just one 50 mile ride
experience - why do you think they will be ready and able to
successfully do this?

As an aside - if this can be accomplished successfully, then it will
be great for the BLM Adoption program because older horses are the
most difficult to adopt out.  This could be a tremendous boost
for "hard to adopt" horses.  So, although I am doubtful of the final
results, I realize this is something that could benefit the adoption
of older BLM Horses.

Happy New Year.

Randy Eiland
EX SW Director
Current DAL Elect

--- In AERCMembersForum@yahoogroups.com, "M CAPISTRANT"
<mvkuhuli@...> wrote:
>
>
> The following post was sent to a differnt site where an AERC
Director observed it and requested that I post it on this site.
>
>
>   There would appear to be some incorrect rumors floating around
concerning the Great Santa Fe Trail Horse Ride. I would like to take
this opportunity to clear up some of the misinformation.
>   When I sanctioned the ride I had as a special request that all
riders be required to have successfully completed at least one fifty
mile endurance ride prior to the event that would be recognized by
their National Federation. This means that there will be no riders in
the event that are completely inexperienced.
>   Status of loaned BLM horses, All of these horses will have
successfully completed a fifty mile endurance ride prior to the ride.
Any BLM loaned horse that fails to meet this standard will not be
used in the Great Santa Fe Trail Horse Ride.
>   Day One start, we have been planning on starting the ride at the
Old Town Plaza in Santa Fe but we are now reconsidering starting the
ride on the outskirts of the city.
>   The riders that we are attracting from Europe are very
experienced. The first European to sign up for this event is Julie
Madden, she has won many endurance rides in Europe and yes her horses
last more than one or two seasons. When evaluating European Riders do
take into consideration at the last world Championship in Aachen
Germany where all three individual medals went to Europeans and the
United States did not have any riders in the top ten.
>   The BLM teams will consist of two horses per rider and will be
scheduled to be ridden every other day. The horses and riders will
have two days rest after four days of ridding and one day of rest
after the eighth day of ridding.
>   There appears to be a lot of concern regarding inexperienced
horses and riders entering a multiday event, is this something that
should be addressed by the Board? I would like to hear suggestions
from anyone who has concerns regarding this issue.
>   regards
> Courtney Hart
> Ride Manager
> Great Santa Fe Trail Horse Ride
> mvkuhuli@...
> 44-1423-772872
>

I don't know about those rides. I started in '89 and the results
appeared in the EN so I assume they were sanctioned. I did a few LD's
prior to 96 and none appear although they were in the EN. I'm sure the
records are somewhere - maybe in a shoe box in someone's closet ;-) .

Truman

rides2far@... wrote:
>
> > It > really doesn't matter what it is for - one of the prime reasons
> for
> > AERC > is to keep records. It would be nice to have a fully functional
> > relational database of all rider and horses from day one of the
> > AERC.
>
> I know that in the early days (pre-1988 or so) The Tennessee Ride didn't
> bother to even santion its 25 miler. Was that just us or was it common
> nationwide? We didn't start santioning until AERC forced us because back
> then, it was mostly people who just kinda showed up that day or endurance
> riders who really were just getting a 50 horse started that did 25.
>
> Angie
>
>


--

“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you.” Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

> It > really doesn't matter what it is for - one of the prime reasons
for
> AERC > is to keep records. It would be nice to have a fully functional
> relational database of all rider and horses from day one of the
> AERC.

I know that in the early days (pre-1988 or so) The Tennessee Ride didn't
bother to even santion its 25 miler. Was that just us or was it common
nationwide?  We didn't start santioning until AERC forced us because back
then, it was mostly people who just kinda showed up that day or endurance
riders who really were just getting a 50 horse started that did 25.

Angie

Jeeze Kat, you must have not gotten the Christmas present you wanted. It
really doesn't matter what it is for - one of the prime reasons for AERC
is to keep records. It would be nice to have a fully functional
relational database of all rider and horses from day one of the AERC. On
the other hand it is well know that there was a big issue getting the
old records into the new database. Bob Morris, Mike Maul and I am sure
others worked to get at least the ride results into the database. Most
of the endurance records are correct at least as far as the ride results
and individual rider and horse records. However, you cannot say do a
pull on say all Tennesse Walking Horses from 1985 to the present. You
can but it starts at 1996.

There are LD rides that appeared in the EN at the time that are not in
the database. It would be nice to have them but the effort would be
great. I expect that if someone wanted to do that work - they would be
welcome to. It's always nice to have a history - a record of where you
and your horse has been and more importantly where the organization has
been. We have a good one that is a very accurate 11 year history. In
reality I expect we are somewhat spoiled with the current system - it is
very good.

Happy New Year Everyone
Truman

k s swigart wrote:
>
> From: "Patsy Gowen" <Firefoxrun@...
> <mailto:Firefoxrun%40comporium.net>>
>
> > I have missing LD miles for my horse Thundarr. I still have
> > my old AERC magazines that show his finishes. Can I scan
> > them and send them in to someone so he can get credit?
>
> I would like it if everybody who wants their horse's record corrected to
> show any of its missing miles (no matter what the distance) would, from
> this time forward, be honest and admit that it is not so the horse can
> get credit.
>
> Fixing ride records is for riders and/or owners so THEY can get credit,
> not the horses. The horse neither knows nor cares.
>
> If you want your horse's ride record changed, it is for you, not for
> your horse. Or because it matters to you that records are accurate with
> no thought about who or what gets "credit" at all.
>
> kat
> Orange County, Calif.
> :)
>
>


--

“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you.” Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

From: "Patsy Gowen" <Firefoxrun@...>

> I have missing LD miles for my horse Thundarr. I still have
> my old AERC magazines that show his finishes. Can I scan
> them and send them in to someone so he can get credit?

I would like it if everybody who wants their horse's record corrected to
show any of its missing miles (no matter what the distance) would, from
this time forward, be honest and admit that it is not so the horse can
get credit.

Fixing ride records is for riders and/or owners so THEY can get credit,
not the horses. The horse neither knows nor cares.

If you want your horse's ride record changed, it is for you, not for
your horse.  Or because it matters to you that records are accurate with
no thought about who or what gets "credit" at all.

kat
Orange County, Calif.
:)

Hey Truman..... Now you are going into my spam mailbox :(
What's wrong with it?? Nothing if you are young, thin, beautiful and tan!
But since I'm not tan :) it really bugs me. I need a reason to look like I'm
in hibernation. It could at least be 70 degrees.

Lisa, The Odd faRm
----- Original Message -----
From: "Truman Prevatt" <tprevatt@...>
To: <AERCMembersForum@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 30, 2006 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: [Norton AntiSpam] [AERCMembersForum] Ooops!


> oddfarm wrote:
>> Why is it 86 degrees and my daughter is at the beach on Dec. 30th!!!!!
>
> And what is wrong with spending the day before New Years Eve on the
> beach :-) ?
>
> Truman
>
> --
>
> “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
> monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
> into you.” Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

oddfarm wrote:
> Why is it 86 degrees and my daughter is at the beach on Dec. 30th!!!!!

And what is wrong with spending the day before New Years Eve on the
beach :-) ?

Truman

--

“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you.” Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

I found this article interesting, someone posted the link on ridecamp.  Unfortunately it does state (once again) there is no vaccination for the neurological form of the disease.  (I had hoped I remembered that part wrong!  per my last post)   Jen     Herpesvirus Vaccination Recommendations by: Kimberly S. Brown, Editor December 27 2006 Article # 8492

The following vaccination recommendations for equine herpesvirus-1 (EHV-1) were made by Julia Wilson, DVM, Dipl. ACVIM, associate professor of Veterinary Population Medicine at the University of Minnesota. There is some debate among researchers and veterinarians on which vaccine (modified live or killed) is best. Wilson reminds horse owners that no vaccine completely prevents disease, and vaccinated animals can still transmit the disease to others, so other disease prevention strategies (such as quarantine and good hygiene) should always be employed.

 

EHV vaccines currently on the U.S. market are: Calvenza EHV and CalvenzaEIV/EHV (killed virus, aka inactivated, from Boehringer Ingelheim); Pneumabort K (inactivated from Fort Dodge); Prodigy with Havlogen, Prestige, Prestige II, and Prestige V with Havlogen (all inactivated from Intervet); Fluvac Innovator EHV-4/1 and Fluvac Innovator Triple-E FT+EHV (inactivated from Ft. Dodge); and Rhinomune (modified live virus from Pfizer). No vaccines are labeled against the neurologic form of EHV-1.

 

Zylexis (Parapox Ovis virus vector) from Pfizer is an immunomodulator licensed to diminish clinical illness, particularly respiratory signs, from EHV-1 and -4 infections when administered prior to exposure and during disease incubation.

Following are some of the points to the debate:

 

1. In the case of EHV-1, data from Cornell University suggests that horses vaccinated with Rhinomune will have significantly lower nasal shedding of EHV-1 virus after being infected with EHV-1 than horses vaccinated with an inactivated vaccine. This mighty be important in limiting the spread of the virus.

 

2. Modified live vaccines generate two types of immunity--humoral (just antibody) and cell mediated (lymphocytes). (The recombinant vaccines using vectors also stimulate both types of immunity.) Killed vaccines generate antibody only, which might not offer enough protection when the horse is faced with a strong challenge.

 

3. Modified live vaccines tend to create a stronger reaction by the vaccinated animal, so some individuals might have a greater risk of vaccine reactions (not disease) when a modified live vaccine is used. This risk has made some veterinarians and horse owners leery of modified live vaccines when a high risk of that particular disease is not anticipated. Timing is also important to avoid having signs of mild illness right before shipping or a major event.

 

4. Duration of measurable immunity in challenge studies tends to be longer with vaccines that create cell mediated immunity (modified live and vector).

 

5. Vaccination of animals in the face of exposure is very controversial and should be made on a case-by-case basis.

For exposed horses that might be incubating the disease, it is probably too late to vaccinate or booster. The vaccine doesn't have enough time to give protection before the virus replicates. Minimizing stress and possibly using immunomodulators might make more sense. Zylexis (from Pfizer) has a label claim for EHV-1 and -4 respiratory disease, but it is intended for pre-exposure use.

 

If the farm is such that there is clear division between exposed and unexposed populations, then more veterinarians will consider vaccinating the unexposed animals on the same farm. Guidelines from the American Association of Equine Practitioners for outbreak control suggest perimeters of biosecurity precautions, vigilance over the already exposed, and vaccination of those that are not exposed, but at risk. That being said, all of the vaccines take a while to ramp up the immune system. One should not expect a single dose of vaccine to be as efficacious as two doses of vaccine given at the appropriate interval.

 

6. Sick horses should not be vaccinated, in my opinion.

 

Vaccination data from the Findlay, Ohio, outbreak showed a trend that suggests horses given frequent vaccination with the killed vaccine could have increased risk of becoming a neurologic case, but it was not statistically significant.

 

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Michael Maul

To: New_Aerc

Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:30 AM

Subject: [AERCMembersForum] Missing LD miles...

In response to:"It's really too bad LD rides are missing pre 1995.
I had a few more that were not listed and I quit AERC for a year
because they couldn't get my mileage"

The listing online of the updated LD Lifetime miles contains *all*
the LD miles AERC knows about. There are no missing LD miles in
the Lifetime total.

What is missing are LD ride results in the archives online which
Russ Humphrey, Bob Morris, and I put there. We spent almost a
year getting what we have online out of the old database.

The endurance archives (1894-1995) are about 90 % accurate. Some
rides are missing, some are incorrect, and all DNF are missing.
If you look at the archives - everyone has a 100% completion rate
prior to 1995.

The LD info was even harder to get out of the old database and was
perhaps 50% accurate. We made the decision not to show data that
was so inaccurate. That's why the LD data is missing from the
online archives.

Bottom line is that all LD miles are shown in the webpage below
for Lifetime miles.

http://www.aerc.org/Competitions_Max_LD.asp

Mike

As much as it pains me to say this because she will never let me forget
it - Lisa is correct ;-) . I have zero LD miles listed in my record
prior to 1996. I rode my first LD in 1989 and had a few here and there
up to 1996. It looks like all the endurance rides prior to '96 are
correct - however, the LD's aren't.

Truman

oddfarm wrote:
>
> What do you mean "There are no missing LD miles in the lifetime
> total"? There are in MINE!
> My first ride is listed as 1/96. That was NOT my first ride. I rode 2
> rides the year before and completed and was on a horse named Showtime.
> Showtime was the first horse I rode and he is only listed with one
> ride and Trainer Wendy on board when in fact, he did 2 rides with her.
> AERC knew about my rides at one time as they sent me 2 letters
> explaining that they were working on correcting my record. Of course
> that never happened.
> So they are in fact, missing some of MY LD miles since they are no
> longer there.
> Lisa Salas, Teh Odd fARm
> ----- Original Message -----
>
>     *From:* Michael Maul <mailto:mmaul@...>
>     *To:* New_Aerc <mailto:AERCMembersForum@yahoogroups.com>
>     *Sent:* Friday, December 29, 2006 9:30 AM
>     *Subject:* [AERCMembersForum] Missing LD miles...
>
>     In response to:"It's really too bad LD rides are missing pre 1995.
>     I had a few more that were not listed and I quit AERC for a year
>     because they couldn't get my mileage"
>
>     The listing online of the updated LD Lifetime miles contains *all*
>     the LD miles AERC knows about. There are no missing LD miles in
>     the Lifetime total.
>
>     What is missing are LD ride results in the archives online which
>     Russ Humphrey, Bob Morris, and I put there. We spent almost a
>     year getting what we have online out of the old database.
>
>     The endurance archives (1894-1995) are about 90 % accurate. Some
>     rides are missing, some are incorrect, and all DNF are missing.
>     If you look at the archives - everyone has a 100% completion rate
>     prior to 1995.
>
>     The LD info was even harder to get out of the old database and was
>     perhaps 50% accurate. We made the decision not to show data that
>     was so inaccurate. That's why the LD data is missing from the
>     online archives.
>
>     Bottom line is that all LD miles are shown in the webpage below
>     for Lifetime miles.
>
>     http://www.aerc.org/Competitions_Max_LD.asp
>     <http://www.aerc.org/Competitions_Max_LD.asp>
>
>     Mike
>
>


--

“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you.” Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

From: Michael Maul

To: New_Aerc

Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 9:30 AM

Subject: [AERCMembersForum] Missing LD miles...

In response to:"It's really too bad LD rides are missing pre 1995.
I had a few more that were not listed and I quit AERC for a year
because they couldn't get my mileage"

The listing online of the updated LD Lifetime miles contains *all*
the LD miles AERC knows about. There are no missing LD miles in
the Lifetime total.

What is missing are LD ride results in the archives online which
Russ Humphrey, Bob Morris, and I put there. We spent almost a
year getting what we have online out of the old database.

The endurance archives (1894-1995) are about 90 % accurate. Some
rides are missing, some are incorrect, and all DNF are missing.
If you look at the archives - everyone has a 100% completion rate
prior to 1995.

The LD info was even harder to get out of the old database and was
perhaps 50% accurate. We made the decision not to show data that
was so inaccurate. That's why the LD data is missing from the
online archives.

Bottom line is that all LD miles are shown in the webpage below
for Lifetime miles.

http://www.aerc.org/Competitions_Max_LD.asp

Mike

Randy,

It is very important for all AERC members to realize that we can never
become complacent about our accomplishments in dealing with trails
issues. We should never be lulled into the feeling that "we have a good
relationship..." I've sent enough time both in the federal bureaucracy
and on advisory boards to "agency directors" to tell you the direction
and priority of an agency is dictated to a large extent by the interest
and priorities of the director of that agency. Any agency from DOD to
BLM has more priorities to respond to than it has resources to respond
to. Hence, the director determines what priorities will be addressed and
what won't. Kathleen Clarke was a "true friend" because those issues
that were dear to our hearts were of concern to her and were high on her
priority list. We helped her and she helped us.

We might not be so lucky with the next person. It is an absolute
necessity that we keep pushing the recreational use of trails and trail
stewardship to the next BLM director. Momentum one has gained under one
agency director can rapidly disappear. Now it is even more important
that remain and even become more proactive in trails issues.

We have lost a friend and friends at that level with that much control
are difficult to come by.

Truman

Randy H Eiland wrote:
> Most probably don't know or appreciate the impact on AERC resulting
> from BLM Director Kathleen Clarke's term as head of the BLM. She was a
> true believer in the recreational use of trails, loved the outdoors,
> and appreciated the use of horses on trails. As a result of the
> tremendous efforts of Roger Taylor, Jerry Fruth and other AERC Members
> from many different regions working on the Ft Stanton Projects in the
> name of AERC, a unique and invaluable relationship developed with the
> BLM. As a result of the Ft Stanton projects, BLM Director Kathleen
> Clarke flew out to New Mexico and awarded Roger Taylor the Four C's
> Award, the highest BLM Award a civilian can be given, she also gave a
> beautiful crystal trophy Four C's Award to AERC for our support of the
> BLM, accepted in our behalf by our Executive Director Kathleen Henkel;
> and gave Jerry Fruth, Barney Fleming, and Randy Eiland (representing
> AERC's Board of Directors) Four C's Certificates in recognition of
> AERC's efforts to partner with the BLM to preserve and maintain
> trails. She will be missed by all AERC Members who ride on BLM lands.
> Hopefully, between the efforts of Kathleen Clarke for the BLM and
> Jerry Fruth, Roger Taylor, and other AERC Members who have worked to
> further the AERC/BLM Relationship, a positive legacy of trail use by
> AERC on BLM Lands, as well as other Federally managed lands will
> continue far into the future
> Happy New Year and Good Trails.
> Randy Eiland
> Ex SW Regional Director
> Current DAL Director Elect





--

“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you.” Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

Very true. The budgets of all land managers have been going down in real
dollars - local, state and federal. Since logging is down in the
national forest (and many state forest) so is that source of income.
There have been pockets where new facilities have been built - Gee Creek
horse camp near Benton, TN being one example. The joint partnership SERA
and the Talladega NF have improved the trail system and horse camp.
While the trails do not currently have a user fee - the horse camp does
which I feel is bargain.

But I fear those areas with little rider involvement will end up
closed.  The forest service is going to spend their decreasing resources
where there is the highest demand. While the resource drain of a billion
a week was not in place when this started - it is going to insure the
land managers are not going to have a big pot of gold at the end of the
rainbow anytime soon. If we want our trails we must get involved - we
must be willing to work to keep them.

Truman


Jerry Fruth wrote:
> Truman:
> All of this began before the war.  It just compounded the problem.
> Our issue is getting our riders involved.  There is just so much the
> public can do to bail out a bad situation.  In the end there will
> be closure no matter what.
> Jerry
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Truman Prevatt" <tprevatt@...>
> To: <AERCMembersForum@yahoogroups.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2006 6:19 PM
> Subject: Re: [AERCMembersForum] Fw: Forest Service to take stock of
> facilities/fees
>
>
>
>> Bottom line is the USFS is not going to get a bigger budget any time
>> soon. We are at war where we have to fork about about a billion a week
>> for and we have a large budget deficit. They really have not choice. If
>> we want our recreational facilities we are going to have to be willing
>> to pay for them. How we do it, use fee, special tax like hunters, etc.
>> is open for debate - but I suspect the free lunch is over.
>>
>> Truman
>>
>> Jerry Fruth wrote:
>>
>>> For your information.
>>> Jerry
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> *From:* Robert Funkhouser <mailto:rfunk9999@...>
>>> *To:* WSNFC <mailto:wsnfc@...>
>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 26, 2006 1:33 PM
>>> *Subject:* Forest Service to take stock of facilities/fees
>>>
>>> All,
>>>
>>> This quote from the article below sort of sums up Forest Service
>>> recreation policy:
>>>
>>> "The irony is that a lot of people have stopped going to the national
>>> forests because of all the user fees, so now the Forest Service is
>>> going to close down these sites because people use them less," said
>>> Spohn. "It’s sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy."
>>>
>>> As far as including the public in recreation policy and decisions on
>>> site closures/fees :
>>>
>>> " ...but conceded that Forest Service had not developed specific plans
>>> for public feedback."
>>>
>>> "We haven’t really thought about it yet in terms of how to involve the
>>> public,..."
>>>
>>> FYI, Robert
>>>
>>> *HEADLINES*
>>>
>>>     *December 20, 2006*
>>>
>>>
>>>     http://www.methowvalleynews.com/headlines.htm
>>>     <http://www.methowvalleynews.com/headlines.htm>
>>>
>>>
>>>     *Forest Service to take stock of facilities*
>>>
>>>     /Agency faces "tough decisions" to close some sites, add fees to
>>>     others/
>>>
>>>     By Patrick Hannigan
>>>
>>>     Beginning in April 2007, the Okanogan and Wenatchee National
>>>     Forests will rank all of its 300-plus developed recreation sites
>>>     spread out across the four-million acre forest.
>>>
>>>     "Maybe the bottom 10 percent of sites need to be closed," said Jim
>>>     Archambeault, recreation planner for the forest.
>>>
>>>     The process, officially known as Recreation Site Facility Master
>>>     Planning (RSFMP), was initiated by an administrative rule change
>>>     within the Forest Service in 2002. The directive required that
>>>     every one of the roughly 15,000 campgrounds, picnic areas, scenic
>>>     overlooks and trailheads with bathrooms on the 193 million acres
>>>     under the agency’s authority be evaluated.
>>>
>>>     Those sites that fail to meet certain criteria will either be
>>>     upgraded to fee sites, be turned over to private concessionaires
>>>     for management or be closed.
>>>
>>>     "The broad goal is to take a close look at what it costs to
>>>     operate developed sites in the forest, and try to align the
>>>     facilities with the budget," said Archambeault. "Those ones that
>>>     fall out of the bottom, we’ll need to make some real tough
>>>
> decisions."
>
>>>     Archambeault said the RSFMP plan for the Okanogan and Wenatchee
>>>     National Forests would be completed by September 2007. He said
>>>     outcomes of the plan might include closing lesser-used recreation
>>>     sites, imposing new operating fees, or managing existing
>>>     recreation sites differently.
>>>
>>>     Currently, the combined Okanogan and Wenatchee National Forests
>>>     have roughly 300 developed recreation sites that will be included
>>>     in the RSFMP review. That includes campgrounds, trailheads,
>>>     overlooks, picnic areas, boat launches and interpretive sites.
>>>
>>>     The closures and new fees will mainly affect simple, remote
>>>     facilities, wrote Dick Artley. Before retiring from the Forest
>>>     Service in 2003, Artley spent the last 12 years of his career as a
>>>     forest planner at the Nez Perce National Forest in central Idaho.
>>>
>>>     "This seems totally illogical and absurd," wrote Artley in an open
>>>     letter published on the Internet Sept. 30. "We all know these
>>>     "simple", "remote" facilities: 1) have very few improvements and
>>>     2) are easy to maintain and are maintained at minimum cost."
>>>
>>>     Crystal Perrow of Winthrop expressed similar concerns.
>>>
>>>     "A lot of the sites they are going to close are the unimproved
>>>     sites that are the favorites of locals," said Perrow. "When we’re
>>>     out camping, we don’t need hot running water and flush toilets –
>>>     that’s not what we’re about in the Methow."
>>>
>>>     Perrow said she believes the RSFMP inventory is being conducted so
>>>     the Forest Service can close down recreation sites that don’t make
>>>     money. She said it seems to her as if the process is being
>>>     conducted "on the sly."
>>>
>>>     "When does the public get a chop on this? Are our comments even
>>>     going to make a difference?" asked Perrow. "There’s just not much
>>>     that’s known."
>>>
>>>     Archambeault said the public eventually would have an opportunity
>>>     to comment on the process, but conceded that Forest Service had
>>>     not developed specific plans for public feedback.
>>>
>>>     "We haven’t really thought about it yet in terms of how to involve
>>>     the public, but there will be public involvement," said
>>>     Archambeault. "It could involve some public meetings or an open
>>>     house. I can’t say right now how we’re going to do that."
>>>
>>>     Other national forests have already completed their RSFMP plans
>>>     and have begun implementation with little or no public notice,
>>>     said Kitty Benzar, co-founder of the Western Slope No Fee
>>>     Coalition, a Colorado-based group that opposes new user fees on
>>>     public lands.
>>>
>>>     "They’ve offered no opportunity for meaningful public comment,"
>>>     said Benzar. "The end result is going to be the privatization of
>>>     our national forests for operation as for-profit enterprises."
>>>
>>>     Since the RSFMP process for the Okanogan and Wenatchee National
>>>     Forests has not started, it unclear what specific implications the
>>>     resulting plan will have for recreation opportunities in the
>>>     national forest surrounding the Methow. Currently in the Okanogan
>>>     and Wenatchee National Forests, 80 of the approximately 160
>>>     campgrounds charge fees, and 102 of roughly 140 (or 73 percent) of
>>>     the major trailheads charge fees.
>>>
>>>     Isabelle Spohn of Twisp said she is concerned the RFSMP will
>>>     result in more new fees and the closure of many free recreation
>>>     sites that Methow locals have been visiting for decades.
>>>
>>>     "The irony is that a lot of people have stopped going to the
>>>     national forests because of all the user fees, so now the Forest
>>>     Service is going to close down these sites because people use them
>>>     less," said Spohn. "It’s sort of a self-fulfilling prophecy."
>>>
>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>>> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
>>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>>> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.24/592 - Release Date:
>>> 12/18/2006
>>>
>>>
>> --
>>
>> “He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
>> monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
>> into you.”  Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>


--

“He who fights with monsters might take care lest he thereby become a
monster. And if you gaze for long into an abyss, the abyss gazes also
into you.”  Friedrich Nietzsche, Beyond Good and Evil

Hi everyone,

An acquaintance of mine has started a website intended to be an all-
around resource about the Anglo-Arabian breed.  (I will put a link to
it in our Links section.)

"....I could use help with the US Anglos. Like a photo of Nos Ecus,
Karen O'Connors old horse, and thehorse Matthew Mackay-Smith won Old
Dominion & Tevis on in 95...Freiheit I think. I can't find em!"

The horse I think someone here might have a photo of is Wc Freiheit, a
grey Anglo-Arabian gelding.  If any of you can supply one (out of an
old Endurance News, perhaps?), you can send it to me or to Peggy
Ingles through the Anglo-Arabian website.

Thank you very much!

Kat Walden
ashai@...

From: "steelsidedown" <steelsidedown@...>

>   If I'm understanding what I am reading correct, and what
> my local vet is telling me, the EHV1 vaccine is to protect
> against rhino virus/flu type symptoms, the EHV4 vaccine
> is to protect against abortion in mares.

Hopefully you are misunderstanding what your vet is telling you rather
than it being your vet that is wrong (however, this is certainly
possible).  However, it is EHV-1 that causes abortion in mares.

> There is no current vaccine against the neurologic rhino virus,
> though the current vaccines help "soften the blow".  Please
> correct me if I'm wrong.

The jury is still out on whether any of the vaccines help, hurt, or have
no effect on the likelihood of contracting the neurological strain of
EHV-1 (EHV-4 is not implicated in any way).

Also, don't assume that your vet knows best about vaccines.  The "best"
about vaccines is constantly changing (and open for debate:)), and what
your vet knows is may very well be what was learned in vet
school....which may have been a long time ago.

kat
Orange County, Calif.

Bob Morris
Morris Endurance Enterprises
Boise, ID

-----Original Message-----
From: AERCMembersForum@yahoogroups.com [mailto:AERCMembersForum@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Cindy Collins
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 7:30 AM
To: AERCMembersForum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AERCMembersForum] re: User fees, etc.

Good morning, gentlemen and ladies :)  The "war" was lost many, many years ago...probably in California where horses have been thrown off numerous trails and many rides were lost.  As I've said before, I sat in meetings with "green" groups who freely stated that as soon as they got rid of motorcycles and ATVs, they'd get horses off the public lands.  They admitted that they were using horse people to battle against motorized users.  It was no secret that they pitted one user group against the other for their "higher" goals.  Historically, horse riders have sided with environmentalists and hiker groups because they are not politically astute enough and/or are naive enough to think horses are sacrosanct.  Tragic as it is and as personally devastating as it is, we deserve it in many ways.  Although many of you out there have worked very hard with multiple use groups, the average horse person sticks their nose in the air and thinks they are far superior to motorized groups...more natural, less damaging.  Pride goeth before the fall, you know.  On top of our poor "alignment" choices and our poorly hidden glee when other users are thrown off trails, there IS the money issue.  Money does matter.  We have had a free ride for years.  In Wyoming (and CA), for example, "green sticker fees" for ATVs, motorcycles, and snowmobiles and "hunting/fishing fees" give those users political clout of some sort.  If every horse owner had to pay a $10-30 per year fee to their state then we'd have a voice at the table or at least be able to make a case for one.  As it is, most other users see us as "free loaders."  Yes, I already pay my taxes, BUT so do all those other users and they are still stuck with extra fees.  I am not an advocate of more fees/taxes, but it is a political reality that money talks.  Some day you guys will figure out that only hikers are " holy" and the rest of us better figure out that they are not our allies.  I'm sure I have started a flaming war here by my honest appraisal of the situation, but occasionally I feel a dose of reality might be useful to the group.  BTW, my husband and I are true multiple users.  We ride horses, off-rode motorcycles, ATVs, hunt, hike, and x-c ski.  Cindy 

Cindy Collins

c_collins@mac.com

----- Original Message -----

From: Cindy Collins

To: AERCMembersForum@yahoogroups.com

Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:29 AM

Subject: [AERCMembersForum] re: User fees, etc.

Good morning, gentlemen and ladies :)  The "war" was lost many, many years ago...probably in California where horses have been thrown off numerous trails and many rides were lost.  As I've said before, I sat in meetings with "green" groups who freely stated that as soon as they got rid of motorcycles and ATVs, they'd get horses off the public lands.  They admitted that they were using horse people to battle against motorized users.  It was no secret that they pitted one user group against the other for their "higher" goals.  Historically, horse riders have sided with environmentalists and hiker groups because they are not politically astute enough and/or are naive enough to think horses are sacrosanct.  Tragic as it is and as personally devastating as it is, we deserve it in many ways.  Although many of you out there have worked very hard with multiple use groups, the average horse person sticks their nose in the air and thinks they are far superior to motorized groups...more natural, less damaging.  Pride goeth before the fall, you know.  On top of our poor "alignment" choices and our poorly hidden glee when other users are thrown off trails, there IS the money issue.  Money does matter.  We have had a free ride for years.  In Wyoming (and CA), for example, "green sticker fees" for ATVs, motorcycles, and snowmobiles and "hunting/fishing fees" give those users political clout of some sort.  If every horse owner had to pay a $10-30 per year fee to their state then we'd have a voice at the table or at least be able to make a case for one.  As it is, most other users see us as "free loaders."  Yes, I already pay my taxes, BUT so do all those other users and they are still stuck with extra fees.  I am not an advocate of more fees/taxes, but it is a political reality that money talks.  Some day you guys will figure out that only hikers are " holy" and the rest of us better figure out that they are not our allies.  I'm sure I have started a flaming war here by my honest appraisal of the situation, but occasionally I feel a dose of reality might be useful to the group.  BTW, my husband and I are true multiple users.  We ride horses, off-rode motorcycles, ATVs, hunt, hike, and x-c ski.  Cindy 

Cindy Collins

c_collins@mac.com

IIRC, it seems like many of the LDs weren't sanctioned in years past.  I'm
foggy on that, it seems like it was an issue that was going 'round about the
time and just after I starting riding and joined.  I know I did an awful lot
of miles on a little grey mare I had at the time, and she's only showing the
one 50 that she did.


Becky Huffman, Cleburne, Texas
Riding www.TheOriginalSeries.com
    and Writing www.NTSFW.com  www.DFWrite.org




----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Maul" <mmaul@...>
To: "New_Aerc" <AERCMembersForum@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 8:30 AM
Subject: [AERCMembersForum] Missing LD miles...


> In response to:"It's really too bad LD rides are missing pre 1995.
> I had a few more that were not listed and I quit AERC for a year
> because they couldn't get my mileage"
>
> The listing online of the updated LD Lifetime miles contains *all*
>  the LD miles AERC knows about.  There are no missing LD miles in
> the Lifetime total.
>
> What is missing are LD ride results in the archives online which
> Russ Humphrey, Bob Morris, and I put there.  We spent almost a
> year getting what we have online out of the old database.
>
> The endurance archives (1894-1995) are about 90 % accurate.  Some
> rides are missing, some are incorrect, and all DNF are missing.
> If you look at the archives - everyone has a 100% completion rate
> prior to 1995.
>
> The LD info was even harder to get out of the old database and was
> perhaps 50% accurate.  We made the decision not to show data that
> was so inaccurate.  That's why the LD data is missing from the
> online archives.
>
> Bottom line is that all LD miles are shown in the webpage below
> for Lifetime miles.
>
> http://www.aerc.org/Competitions_Max_LD.asp
>
> Mike
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

In response to:"It's really too bad LD rides are missing pre 1995.
I had a few more that were not listed and I quit AERC for a year
because they couldn't get my mileage"

The listing online of the updated LD Lifetime miles contains *all*
   the LD miles AERC knows about.  There are no missing LD miles in
the Lifetime total.

What is missing are LD ride results in the archives online which
Russ Humphrey, Bob Morris, and I put there.  We spent almost a
year getting what we have online out of the old database.

The endurance archives (1894-1995) are about 90 % accurate.  Some
rides are missing, some are incorrect, and all DNF are missing.
If you look at the archives - everyone has a 100% completion rate
prior to 1995.

The LD info was even harder to get out of the old database and was
perhaps 50% accurate.  We made the decision not to show data that
was so inaccurate.  That's why the LD data is missing from the
online archives.

Bottom line is that all LD miles are shown in the webpage below
for Lifetime miles.

http://www.aerc.org/Competitions_Max_LD.asp

Mike

The list of riders with more than 10,000 life time miles has been
updated for the 2006 season at

http://www.aerc.org/Membership_Awards_Riders10K.asp

The list of equines with more than 5,000 life time miles has been
updated for the 2006 season at

http://www.aerc.org/Membership_Awards_5K.asp

__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com